Coleus, Painted Nettle 'Neon Rose' (Solenostemon scutellarioides)

Coleus, Painted Nettle 'Neon Rose'
Solenostemon scutellarioides

Rosy Dawn Gardens

I love the bright colors!

I can't figure out if 'Neon Rose' and 'Neon' are the same cultivar. Can you help? Rosy Dawn has this as just Neon, but here's the PlantFiles entry for Neon, and it looks different. http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/37815/index.html I realize that the amount of sun makes them look different too. Is there two different cultivars, or are they both the same by two different names?

Thanks for any help you can offer.

Joan,

A question with no absolute answer!

I did a google image search for both names and got many pictures that are labelled as being 'neon' or 'neon rose', but the plants all look different, which just added to my confusion. I then went to coleusfinder.com and both names came up with different plants. I am assuming that SingingSrings has the true 'neon' pictured on that site, because the photo I submitted came up 'neon rose' on the Coleusfinder site. When in doubt I always trust Wouter's site, he's European (and percise). I don't think they are they same plant with similar names based on what I researched. I think they are different cultivars. I based my decision on the edge of the leaf and its coloring. 'Neon' has a very narrow sharp gold border. 'Neon Rose' has an edge that is broader and not as well defined. I am guessing that colorfarms (In Mn) photo is only showing two colors, gold and pink because of the climate and time of year of the photo. I am guessing that Rosy Dawn's (in MI) photo was taken during the summer because the leaf is showing three colors, gold edge with just a trace of pink in the center. Pink will turn to a 'red' in some coleus as they grow and temps warm. The photo on coleus finder from glasshouseworks looks like 'Defiance' and just confuses the ID process.

There is no authority, that I know about, to settle an issue that is so confusing. I will stick with my thoughts about looking at the shape of the color/edge of the leaf as the best indicator of different cultivars. That edge usually remains the same shape as the color regions of the leaf change. Neon appears narrow, Neon Rose broader and less defined.

If you do a google search you will see some photos that are definitely not Neon Rose and some that look similar to others. My experience is that sunlight and seasonal temps change the colors. The cooler the climate (new england plants never have the deep colors of the summer in the south plants) and low light levels (low light usually widens the border color, strong light usually widens the center color) can make the same plant look completely different. I have had that experience here in Tampa as the seasons change from steamy summers to cool dry winter. I also get huge differences when I plant a sun loving coleus in the shade.

I looked at the entry for 'neon' and it looks like a washed out 'neon rose'. It looks like a low light or very cool climate plant, but, to me a 'neon rose'. The entry in PlantFiles under 'Neon' just doesn't look at all like coleusfinder's.

This message was edited Feb 23, 2007 8:50 PM

This message was edited Feb 23, 2007 9:31 PM

Thanks! I'm still not sure if they are the same or not, but I am also inclined to trust the coleusfinder site, and conclude that they are two different cultivars. It would be interesting to find one of each from the same source, and grow them side by side in the same conditions to see if they are the same or different.

The thing that got me wondering was when you posted with your photo that it was from Rosy Dawn Gardens. I went to the site looking for Neon Rose and could only find Neon, but with the same photo you posted. Then, like you, the more I tried to figure out if they were the same cultivar with two different names, the more confused I got. :) Therefore, I still have not ordered this. LOL

I'll do a little more checking, and if I can find both cultivar names listed for sale by the same vendor, I have the urge to order both and see what I come up with.

Thanks for your help. I'll let you know if I find anything real interesting. These are definitely curious and quirky plants to figure out.

I edited my post (above)

You are right about growing them side by side, but, the only people selling 'Neon' are no longer in the retail business and I don't know of anyone besides SingingSprings that sells 'Neon'. I think they are probably the same plant and the name 'Neon Rose' is the correct ID from what I have researched.

I am willing to bet that if I sent you cuttings w/ photos taken here you would end up with a plant and photos that looked very different from here.

I think you are right that they would end up looking very different for me. Sigh....

Rosy Dawn has the photo you posted listed as Neon on their website, but you think it is the same as Neon Rose?

Based on photos I have seen on the web, yes. Neon and Neon Rose are two names for the same plant. I am guessing, but, I think some people, somewhere along the line, just shortened the name so they could put it in bigger letters on the plant tag. I see that alot in the plant trade.

I saw a few webshots that used the label 'Neon' & 'Neon Rose', indicating that some folks think it is two names for the same plant. Since there is no central database for coleus names and the plants are changable, under different conditions, makes ID interesting. The majority of the pics that I saw labelled that coloration as 'Neon Rose' so I went with the 'majority rules' way of doing things. Doesn't mean it was right, I just felt I had to make a decision.


Another factor is that names can change when the plants go from one grower to another. At one nursery in TX, Yuccado, they remark in their catalog about the problems of tracing back the origins of plants and the names attached to them. Plant Delights in NC says the same.

Do you think I should request that DG remove the photo I submitted? I don't want to add to an already confused world. Or should I go with RD's ID as 'Neon'? Even tho I think it is more correctly Neon Rose, I probably don't have the right to rename their photo. When I submitted that photo I was just trying to get a photo of the plant in the files for 'Neon Rose' that was accurate.

It really bothers me to have an entry in plant files without a photo. Gardening is a visual art and I find those entries without pics to be useless academia. Most of the members are hands on, 'in the dirt' kind of folks who use the data for visual guidance. I suspect that most of the research done in PF is by people who are looking for plants that they are not familiar with. Having to go to another source for photos makes PF less useful for me since I already have the plant name and a general idea of its hardiness, size etc. I don't think of PF as an encylopedia of plant names, we have those online already.

It is pleasant to write about these subjects. Makes me rethink thru what decisions I have been making. And it is nice chatting with another Midwestener. I grew up in Mpls. and have lived many other places, but, I find the upper midwest has a certain way of doing things that is unique. A great place to raise your kids it what I always tell people.

Good Morning!

I did some more research last night too, and I've also come to the conclusion that they are the same plant. I sent a d-mail to Wouter from Coleusfinders to see if he can help us figure this out. Let's wait and see what he says before you contact admin. If we determine that they are the same, they can move your photo to the Neon entry and it will still be in PlantFiles. They can also add Neon Rose as an additional cultivar name to the Neon entry if we ever get this figured out.

Nurseries do tend to rename plants, and that makes it all the more difficult to figure out.

I agree that the entries that have photos are more helpful, and more and more entries are getting photos added every day to them. There are some PlantFile contributors that don't want to create new entries, but will happily upload photos if the entry is already there. I'm excited to see it grow. It's only been somewhere around 4 or 5 years since Dave started PF, and look how it's grown already! Can you imagine how large and complete it will be in a few more years?

Lucky you, got to move from Minnesota to Florida. My dream is to move somewhere with better growing conditions when we retire. I have zone 8 in my mind as the perfect zone, and there's lots of zone 8 area on the map to choose from. :)

Have a great day! This research and discussion has been interesting, and has also caused me to think about some things that I hadn't thought of before, and I learned a lot. Hopefully Wouter will pop in today. I wonder what time it is in the Netherlands?

Joan

Hi,
Since they are not very different, there is a good chance that they are similar. In that case Neon Rose is probably the right name. But I have a 'Neon' in my collection and it has a rather broad green edge when in shade, but dark green. That gives me some doubt. Since it seems really impossible to decide if not grown together for some period for comparison, I should treat them as separate cultivars. On my website I try to judge as little as possible and to let the photos speak for themselves. If 9 photos are the same and one very different, the latter is probably wrong. You could also say that most people identify the one with the nine photos with that name. A name is not more then an instrument to identify a certain form. If almost all 10 are different though, the only thing you know for sure is that there is confusion, if there are no other references.

Hope this adds not too much too the confusion,
Wouter

Thanks Wouter! I'm not sure we will ever know that answer to this one, so I think I'm going to order the 'Neon' from Rosy Dawn and see what I get. I really like the brightness of the one dale posted, but I may not be able to achieve that coloration in my northern garden either.

dale, I'm not sure what to suggest about either leaving your photo in the Neon Rose entry or moving it to Neon. I'll let you make that decision. Since we don't have a definite answer, it's probably okay to leave it in the Neon Rose entry. But if you want to contact admin about moving it to the Neon entry because it's a Rosy Dawn photo and they call it Neon, I think that would also be appropriate.

I did it! I ordered Neon from Rosy Dawn. I hope it turns out to be as bright as yours dale.

And while I was ordering anyway, I figured I might as well pick up a couple 16 other cultivars. LOL

Thanks for all the help.

Joan, always happy to enable the plant crazy.

Some of the photos I have been posting are from RD, I asked and they granted me permission to download them. I have been going thru PFiles and adding photos to the existing entries, maybe 3-5 per day. It takes me awhile because I cross check RD's photo with coleusfinder, other sellers and web pictures. So far the only one that had any doubt involved is Neon Rose.

I am sticking with my decision to call it Neon Rose, because I am sure somewhere, someone decided to drop the Rose, because it didn't fit the tag. I am sure if someone in management wants too, they can change it with a few clicks of their mouse.

I had very bad luck buying coleus from northern growers. Even in mailorder people tend to grow what performs well in their climate. Last year I ordered about 30 from RD and 15 from ColorFarm. Only about 5 (10%) did well here in the steamy south. Most of the coleus we grow are sun coleus, most of the ones from up north are shade types. This year I am only buying from growers that are in Georgia or south. I did notice that RD's plants were much bigger than ColorFarm's. And only one from ColorFarms made it, Big Red he calls it. It is not very vigorous, but, wow it sure is red. I hope this year it will perform better.

We had a very mild winter, with only 10 nights below 45* (8C) a record warm winter, a zone 11 winter! Most of the coleus in my yard were fine, a few suffered. I am going to have a lot of cuttings to pot up later in the spring.

Just wondering what zone your in? Is your part of ND in zone 3 or 4? You must be up in elelvation in that part of the I-94 corridor. I do remember driving thruough there 20-35 years ago. I remember the pot hole lakes with all the ducks hanging out, but, everything else looked pretty dry (compared to rainy MN).

Wouter,

Thanks for your help. I am much harder nosed about being accurate with a plant name that doesn't have an offical registry for names. We have many plant societies that have an 'Official' list that they maintain for new cultivars and the names given them by the hybridizer. Most of them require that you list the parent plants, then others can trace the heritage of the new plants through many generations. That practice helps avoid confusion.

One of the big problems with coleus is that they change or as some say 'sport'. It would be hard to keep up with this plant and its changes. There would be hundreds of entries every year, too much work.

I'm in the zone 4 portion of North Dakota, but just barely. I'm dangerously close to zone 3. LOL

Obviously my coleus don't winter over, and I generally don't even take cutting to keep indoors unless it's one that I really like and think I may have trouble buying the following spring. Even then, it depends on how diligent I am at watching for that first frost and getting the cuttings in time. I couple years ago I lost all my brugs and everything because of that. Since losing them, I have a much more laid back attitude and just treat most tropicals/tender perennials as annuals. I've only replaced one of the brugs, because it was a favorite. Dr. Suess.

Thanks again for all your help. I gotta get back to shopping. I'm ordering veggie seeds now, and I have to get an iris order in before DH comes home and takes the credit card away from me. :)

Joan