Winter help for newbie!!

I bought my first plumie this summer and it did well. Didn't bloom yet of course but stayed very healthy and grew leaves. I am overwintering it in the greenhouse where the temp stays between 69-90 degrees and I've been watering it once every 10 days or so. A few weeks ago, the leaves turned yellow, then brown, then they curled and shed. There are no more leaves but the stalk looks very healthy still and has the little thorny/buddy top. Is this normal for this time of year? I'm in area 8b. Thanks!!

If the stem is firm you should be ok. I've learned to stop watering when there are no leaves so the stem doesn't rot. If you feel it's necessary maybe once a month.

Jeri

Greenie, your greenhouse must be getting colder at night, causing those leaves to drop. It is normal for this time of year. They will grow back soon when spring comes. Plants still need water when they are dormant; otherwise, they can become desiccated so I would water when the soil looks on the dry side. I water my bare ones about once a week.

Greenie...thanks for asking, and Claire...thanks for answer! Mine did the same thing and I was very worried. We've had some warm days, but cool nights. Hadn't run heat, figuring it was warm enough. All leaves turned yellow and fell off....within a few days. Buds are still there, but after babying them thru the winter, they sure took a turn for the worse! I feel better now....ahhhhhh.....

LOL! Glad to help! I've been getting leaf drop all winter. It is such a mess to clean up when you have hundreds like I do. It is funny because I have some plumerias with all their leaves; some with just a few leaves; and some (most) with no leaves at all. The greenhouse that stays the warmest has plants with the most leaves. I just sprayed for spider mites though, and some of the leaves are reacting to that.

Great to know, thanks guys!! I have 2 heaters running at night so it doesn't drop below 60 and then sometimes forget by midday and go in and it's 90. =) But I'm glad it's still healthy and I'm not killing it. I'm really hoping for blooms this spring!!

Plumies are tough when it comes to heat especially if they don't have any flowers on them..
I came home from work the other day and went out to the GH and was shock how hot it was..
The Iquana's were loving it..
One of my fans pop a breaker and didn't come on when it was suppose to..
The temp inside was 115 degrees :=o~ and the humidity was 91%.
Ouch..
Well the plumies all survive with no problems because i gave them a cool water/super thrive drink shortly after that..
Even the plumies with the flowers survive too..
If the leaves are falling off and your temps are warm then it's a sunlight/grow light issue..
The leaves will turn solid yellow or yellow with green veins and eventually a brown color..
This will happen to the lower leaves first then it will work it's way to the top..
The leaf that gets the least amount of light will be affected first, aka the lower leaves.
If you want to keep the plumie growing then increase the light she gets and follow the normal watering process..
For temps i would keep the plumie above 70 degrees this would put the soil temps between 58-65 degrees depending on what kind of soil you are using..
A generic rule i would use based on my tests is this:

So if the outside air is 60 degrees then the soil is around 50 degrees and if kept in this range too long will send them into hibernation or slow the growth rate down by at least 50%.
Of course these numbers are generic because in all my tests it still boils down to how healthy the plumie is and how healthy the root system is..

Robert, where did you get that quote from? My understanding is that soil temps are usually warmer than air temps. I don't have any additional heating in my greenhouse, but daytime temps regularly get up over 90, which warms the soil, and then the air temp cools off at night, but the soil cools off at a much slower rate. I think I heard that leaf temps are cooler than air temps because of transpiration. My greenhouse can get into the 40's at night, but I have to believe that soil temps are much warmer because I have so many in bloom in there and so many sending up inflo's. I have one of those point and shoot laser temperature gauges, but I am too lazy to go see what the temps are! I should go do that to straighten out my confusion. Where's Dete? He uses his laser temp gauge all the time;-)

Clare you picture was great very nice I can tell you have been at this for years and it shows great plants with awesome flowers.

Clare i am referring to his temp range...
If you get down to chilly temps then of course the temps will be warmer..
I am only responding to his current range of what he keeps his plants at..
I guess for the sake of the forum i need to be more specific..
I am replying to his post and tend to forget the big picture..
Also a laser temp gauge does you no good for inside soil temps,you must use a temp gauge with a probe like in some of my pics..
It is the same probe used for ovens and turkeys with the long probe attach..
In his temp range it is not possible to have warmer temps because it is soil and because it is wet..
:)

Ok just for you Clare...
Sorta feel strange my friend, you questioning my comments lol :)
Because it is you i will put my flip flops on and disturb my sleeping reptiles and take these 2 pics just for you my friend..
Perfect timing since my temps are in his range..
Remember what i posted the first 12'' are the warmest of the plumie then it gets cooler but reaches a standard point..
When i say warm i mean compare to cold temp outside, since we are dealing with warm temps the reverse is in effect..
:)
Here just for you taken at 2:55am on this Wed morning..

Ok this first pic is from one of my GH meters..
The top number is the outside temp taken from a remote probe 20 feet away and the bottom numbers are the current GH temps @ 02:55am Feb 14 2007 plus the current humidity reading..
http://img149.imageshack.us/img149/136/200702140982rx4.jpg

The second pic is from one of my probes i leave in the soil to show what the current temp is inside the pots of my plumies..
http://img183.imageshack.us/img183/2233/200702140984hk9.jpg

See the difference between the temps??
In my example the ambient temp is 76.8 degrees because this is the temp in the GH which is the ambient outside air temp for the plant..
In the soil the gauge reads 65.5 degrees based on a semi-wet soil and using coconut/soil mix which will be warmer then standard soil..
What's the temp where it turns reverse??
I can't test that since it doesn't get that cold here maybe you can provide that number..
:)

As for flowering???
In many plants it is the female hormones that control the flowering process..
What's causing them to trigger the flowering the effect?
Less light is one thing because in many plants light will hinder or kill the female hormones and this is one of the reasons why plants need some hours of darkness..
So base on this fact one can assume why plumies bloom so late in the season?? Less Light being one of the conditions and cooler temps being the other..
Plumies are said to contain both hormones so this is why they bloom at different times but many of them seem to do it in early fall or even late winter..

BTW
Happy Valentine Day to you Clare and to all here...

This message was edited Feb 14, 2007 3:53 AM

Thanks, Dana! I actually haven't been at it as long as you might think. I think it has been 6 years that I've been growing plumerias, and I've been growing other things and gardening in general for about 8 years.

Oh, Robert. I didn't mean to make you feel strange and hope I didn't come off in a way that I didn't intend. It is all in the friendly spirit of learning, and obviously, I am still learning all the time. See, you taught me something today. Thank you! That was really sweet of you to disturb your sleeping reptiles just to show me those numbers. I did not know this. I had always thought that the air temp was always cooler than the soil temp, and now I know differently. I think you are right that, when temps drop at night, the soil temp does not drop as quickly, and therefore can be warmer than the air temp. I can test this tonight. I can't believe how warm you are at night there. We are still in the 40's at night here. You lucky duck. You are such a sweetheart to explain it all to me. Happy Valentines Day to you also and to everyone.

No problemo clare..
Of course i do not think that, i forgot to add my smiley at the end of that statement i was tired :)
In my other post about soil temps i was showing how we can increase the soil temps so i can see how
you could get confused.In my post:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/685922/
the ambient temp was 72 degrees.
If you read each line before the picture link you will see that i am testing SURFACE temps and the POTS temps..
However there are 2 lines where you see the same probe i used in my above photos:

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/lopaka001/20061004_1684.jpg

http://i87.photobucket.com/albums/k152/lopaka001/20061004_1683.jpg

From those 2 pics you will see the difference between the temps which indicate that the soil is cooler..
By my results i can now see why some of my plumies that are in the ground in different locations around my yard grow differently.
I am talking the same variety of plumies for example my 4 aztec golds planted in 4 different locations all seem to grow differently.
I think it boils down to solar radiation and how much the soil got heated at that certain location..

:=)

Thanks again, Robert. That information is so important, and I agree with you that soil temp seems to make quite a bit of difference in growth. I put that thread in the FAQ's because it is so great. I have only tested surface temps and have never tested the soil temp with my meat thermometer. I know that the pots get really warm in the daytime when the greenhouses get to 90 and above in there during the day. Someone did a temperature check of the ground soil of their plumies here in Southern California one night recently, and I think it was around 50 or so.