These were bought at K-mart over the summer and grew like gangbusters outside on my patio (hence the huge pot, it's a 5 gallon pot). They've been inside near but not in a southern window since Labor Day. I've been keeping the medium moist, misting them, and the water is distilled. But what's the brown mottling on the leaves? I can see roots poking up (they need another transplanting, but can't do it until spring) and they are white. Stems are firm. Any help would be appreciated.
bbinnj:
I hope someone answers cuz I have the same problem. Just hoping mine stays alive til it's warm enough to go back outdoors!
Deb
Hmmmm. Looks like a burn to me. Are you putting anything in the misting water? What are you watering with? Ti detest flouride and other chemicals in the water... Fertilizer burn? I have seen that burn look on Ti when they have been sitting too long in water before I have time to plant them...or if they are unhappy. HTH...
they've always been a picky plant for me, even in florida. they don't like to be wet except by rain and they don't care for an always moist soil either (in my experience). conversely, they don't like a dry heat either. it could be your heated house doing it. most tropicals that i've had seem to like cooler conditions in winter, if they have to experience a winter. even in the keys, where people think of an always tropical climate, it does get cooler in winter and less rain and even the tropicals seemed to enjoy that and need a break from "summertime" conditions.
Our yearly rainfall is about 160"...sometimes days and days and days...but the soil we plant in is mostly lava cinders with a bit of organic material thrown in with it. So...the 'soil' drains really really quickly. Sometimes when I leave cuts in water too long they can get that yucky brown stuff. Cinders may be hard to find...but large Perlite or any chunky stuff would work (not red cinders...they are too high in iron)...we ARE humid most of the time which helps.
bb, I have this corn plant, sorry I don't remember what the scientific name is but, I only give it distilled water. When I water him with tap, the tips will turn black and have to be cut off.
Give it a try and only mist it with distilled water too. I think there are some nasty chemicals in tap water, like AH said.
BB, I went to look at the pic again and saw that you are using distilled....sorry.
You could try rainwater and see if it makes a difference.
Mine does that too. I think it is a combination of dry heat in the house combined with low humidity. Wonder if it would be happier in a bathroom that has a shower.....it might be worth a try during the Winter months.
More than likely it is a humidity problem. Mine do that every year but bounce back when I move them back outdoors. That is one of the drawbacks to ti plants - but they are so easy to multiply.
I agree it is the lack of humidity. I have a Keeley's Gold I just bought oneBay a short while ago. I have kept it indoors this winter until I can get it esablished outside in the spring. Although I have watered with rain water, it too is getting those nasty brown edges on the leaves. The humidity in my home gets down to 45% when we are running the heatpump and obviously that is not enough.
The Ti's I have growing outdoors, in the ground and in containers, are all fine with no brown edges. They get watered if the heavens open otherwise they stay dry and seem to love that.
Thank you all, here are my responses:
planted in peat plus sand, drains very well
distilled water only, works for orchids, cannot get rainwater this time of year, the temp outside is 5 deg F, we do not have fluoride in our tap water anyway
have not fertilized in 2 months due to lack of observed growth in plants; figured if I'm not seeing much growth, they don't need it yet
did spray with insecticidal soap 2 months ago but kept it out of direct sun for that reason. The new leaves should not show the mottling if that's the reason.
the other tis I have do have a bit of crispy brown on leaf edges, even on humidity trays, been misting them. BTW, we have a whole house humidifier and the moisture level is ramped up to the point we have condensation on cold surfaces. so our air is not as dry as you might think. Keely's Gold went mushy on me, Troy owes me a rooted cutting when the weather warms up
the 5 gallon pot is too big for our bathrooms
this is the only ti cultivar I did not cut down and root for overwintering and I am sorry now. My others are small enough to stick on humidity trays.
bbinnj-when you say peat and sand-do you mean straight peat or the soiless mix that has a lime charge, perlite, vermiculite? I don't see much perlite in that mix-if that white stuff is perlite, and I am wondering about the PH of the soil. Something is burning those leaves.....
My tis in the grhouse are doing fine-no brown on them at all and I use well water to water them, and have been hitting them with some liquid fert when I fert in there. Its pretty dry in there, I keep the humidty down. The PH is about 6.2.
also if when you do repot-fill up the cont almost to the top and you won't have to repot so much-that looks half full.
I mixed the peat with sand myself, no perlite. ran out of mix when I did the potting up, you are right it needs more but the potting mixes are away for the winter where i can't get to them. this one is #1 for repotting in a better mix come spring.
If that was straight peat, then I think the PH of your soil is around 4 -4.5. There is no lime additive in the straight peat. I don't know how low a PH a ti plant can tolerate, but 4 is pretty low, and may be negatively affecting the growth of the plant. I cna't think of what else would burn the leaves. If it were me, I would repot the plant and wash all the soil off the roots ( as much as you can) and repot in a soiless mix with added perlite. If you can't get any mixes now, then I would go buy a bag of lime and lime it a few times ( once a week for at least two weeks) and see if you see any difference on the new leaves. Be careful with the lime-follow the directions exactly.
Are you sure that there isn't fluoride in the water? Even if your city doesn't add it, some places it occurs naturally in the water. I'm not sure if the naturally occurring levels could be high enough to cause problems though.
I am sure, had to give my kids fluoridated vitamins and they had fluorides treatments forever. Too much fluoride makes the teeth turn brown.
I have other tis potted in the same mix without the brown mottling, so I doubt it's the pH. The pot is too big to repot in my house, and with temps in single digits, it cannot be done outside. The cure has to happen in the pot, or I'll have to cut and root as a last resort.
the other tis I have do have a bit of crispy brown on leaf edges, even on humidity trays, been misting them.
didn't know how to copy what you wrote above with the blue box-but anyway-this is what you said, so I am confused about if its happening to the others....maybe its the misting. Well, if you used straight peat, then its your PH-at least part of the problem-most plants don't like so acidic a soil, and its easy to fix.
the brown edges on the others is different from what's on the Red sister, this is a brown mottling over the leaves and not just crispy edges. Will try to take a close-up picture and post.
I am not an expert, but I noticed my tis were turning brown on the edges and losing fronds, so I misted and misted--they almost died. I've kept them fairly moist, but quit misting and they are much better (I think because it's winter?maybe?). My tis outside have always done fine, even when I don't water often. I have noticed that one ti -Pink sister-has one frond that hits a leaf of another plant that drips onto the ti when I water. That frond is turning brown-right where it drips (and I only water twice a week max). Someone else that knows more can give better advice-but this was my experience even though it sounds crazy.
Sounds like some good advice tropicanna. My ti plants always do this each winter so I don't even worry about them. I just pick off the totally brown leaves and discard them.
I've had a couple of ti plants out of soil for the whole winter last year and maybe watered the roots once in a while (so they don't totally dry up and die), planted them in the ground this past summer, and they came out pretty good. In fall I dug them up and put them in a pot. I do this for my plumerias too.
If I had to use them as a permanent houseplant, I'd probably have thrown them out years ago but since they always shape up nice in summer I keep them around.
I didn't realize you have it planted in straight peat and sand. Besides the pH problem there is no drainage in that mixture and I am surprised your others are doing well in that combo.
If it were mine I would go to a garden center and pick up a small bag of potting mix and transplant it. I know you think it is too large to do that in your home but old shower curtains make wonderful tarps and you wouldn't have to make too much of a mess. There are times when I have to transplant inside because it is too hot outdoors. :-)
If you do have to cut it back think positively; you'll have a much fuller plant in a few months as the result . Plus, a few cuttings to root.
But there's lots of drainage, I have quite a few potted in the same mix and I know how quickly they drain. Cutting tis doesn't always give a fuller plant though. I really don't want to cut these if I don't have to.
Hmmmm. There ARE other chemicals in city water that many tropicals don't like...and Ti are especially sensitive to them. The brown mottling could be a result of too humid and too cool...I have a heliconia doing that because it really likes dryer and warmer.
All I know is that the burning stuff on leaves here are like spots, and it is due to the volcanic emissions...acid burning. Ti generally seem to like a more acid condition as opposed to alkaline. The more drainage material I plant my ti in...the more they like it.
Spring isn't far away...
alohahoya-its the sulfur in the air that burns the plants. I knew some herb growers up from you in Mtn View that got their crop wasted from when the sulfur in the air was so bad when Pu'u O'o was going off a lot.
I think when you say that tis like it more acidic than akaline, you mean around a PH of 6-6.5 maybe...not a PH of 4-4.5 right?
Bbinnj, I have the same situation with some var ginger where the new leaves are starting to burn like yours, because some soil with too much sulfur was used to pot them up and now the PH is around 3.8-4.4. I need to lime them soon!
In the future, I think a soiless mix with extra perlite mixed in, is a mix that may work well for you. It is working well for my plumerias ( the extra perlite, that is). You say that you have plenty of humidity in the air-so I would stop misting, and just lime the soil, and you should see a difference in a month.
I don't live in a city and our water is very soft. I took a picture of Miss Hawai'i ti planted in the same mix to show you how great that ti looks- no mottling or brown edges at all, plus close-ups of the mottling. Because I have to leave for work now, I'll upload the photos later today. Miss Hawai'i is a ti I started from a log over the summer.
I use this mix mainly for starting tis and other things I'm rooting. I had enough to pot the Red Sister. When I repot, I use a different mix with good drainage. But you are ignoring the problem now with the leaves. If it were due to the water and/or the mix, it would have shown up back in the fall. I got the ti and repotted it in July and it moved it inside Labor Day.
I get what you are saying. Sometimes it is frustrating trying to figure out what is going on. Its like a puzzle and you have to look at all the pieces. The vast majority of the time it is either the fert (or lack of), the PH, or the watering (or lack of).
So you have to look at each of the above issues in detail and rule out stuff....or least this is what I have to do when I have a problem with a plant (s) acting up. Sosmetimes its fun...lol I know you probably are not thinking that now, but it is always a learning experience-at least it has been for me in the past.
Fert: looking at the past 4-6 months-what have you applied and how much?
PH: if, indeed, this is straight peat ( no perlite, vermiculite etc added at all) and sand-then I promise you that your PH is very low, and it sometimes takes awhile for the burn/damage to occur. I had the var. ginger potted up in late Oct and it is just now starting to show signs of the browning of the new leaves.
Watering: How often do you water, and do you wait until the soil dries out some, or are the roots constantly in wet soil? I think misting is a issue here also, and that is something that would be good to maybe stop and see if it makes a difference.
Since you moved the pot in, was it near a heating vent? How long ago did you start to see the browning?
bb, with almost 50 years of gardening experience the ONLY thing I can say for sure is that sometimes, no matter how perfect your cultural practices are, you will lose a plant. Sadly, it just happens.
You could always take a leaf to your local (Rutgers ?) extension service office and have an analysis done; they could tell you exactly what is wrong with the plant and be more specific in their recommendations. If you do this, please let us know the results; I know I would appreciate the info and suspect others would too.
OK, close-up pics:
pic #2 sorry wrong one
This message was edited Feb 8, 2007 12:04 PM
for comparison, Miss Hawai'i, in the same mix, in the same southern window AND actually over the heat duct BUT grown by me from a log starting in July, same water, same feeding schedule, and Miss Hawai'i too needs repotting, which I cannot do at this point until weather warms up. the local ag extension (where my older daughter goes to college, btw- that's Cook College at Rutgers) wouldn't know from tropicals, I daresay.
TigerLily...pH around here IS low..but I don't know by how much. Will test it. I know our rainwater is .7, the cinders are .6...will get back to you.
Have you ruled out a fungus? Is this the only Ti with the mottling? I would check your fert. also...Ti don't need much...could be a phosphorus burn?
Extension Service would be able to help.
Do you have an industry nearby? Those burns look like the stuff we get when the sulphur gets high from the volcano...that and our sore throats and headaches....
Carol
Carol- no fert since Dec and that was 20-20-20. What is nearby? it's NJ. No industry in my town. The plant has been inside since Labor Day. Only this one show the mottling. The tis I grew from logs (bought from Allen Goodson out your way) all look like Miss Hawai'i and they are in the same mix, same water, same fert schedule. The King Kalekaua you sent me has some crisp edges but not this mottled appearance, it looks healthy and started a new little one coming up from the soil where I laid a piece of log sideways. Dwarf Purple Prince likewise looks a bit like King K; these are in a different room in a southern sun. Baby Bronze- absolutely none of this stuff on the edge of leaves (was a gift from Hetty in trade); Kiwi- very little brown edge on 1 leaf; Sunset, Pink Integrity- like Kiwi; Baby Spoon and Red Cameroon- like Miss Hawai'i. Ti I forgot to label (think it may be Cameroon) like Miss Hawai'i. Only Red Sister has that mottled look. All tis were given Bonide's systemic, which takes care of fungus gnats, mealies, white flies, and fungi. it lasts 3 months and the last treatment was less than 3 months ago. The stems of Red Sister are firm no mushiness at all.
As I said above, Red Sister is the only one I did not cut down and re-root for overwintering. Pink Integrity, Sunset, Baby Bronze, and Kiwi were nearly as large. I left Red Sister to enjoy it as an accent plant in my dining room since we are indoors now. In the warm weather, I used the tis to make a potted border around my new patio, sort of a bit of Hawai'i in my backyard.
Ardesia, if I lose it, it's only a plant, and a $10 one at that. If I can learn something about it (and believe me, I am learning plenty from your comments), so much the better. I'll bring home pH paper from lab to check the pH, though based on Miss Hawai'i there is something going on with Red Sister only.
Well, that is all good info...I just repotted all 60 gallons of the var. ginger rather than fool around with the lime.
I can say that those bright pink varieties can be kind of funky sometimes-more prone to problems than some of the sturdier varieties. I do think it looks like some kind of burn. Lets see what the PH is.
When did the browning start on this ti? Has it been doing this for awhile? Could you have overfertilized it in December? The growth has slowed down (if not semi-dormant) and maybe it was too much?
I don't do anything to mine except fertilize when other plants are fertilized and they get tap water. I notice some browning in spots and to me it looks like a fungus. I hope they come out of it when they can go back outside.
What's overfertilizing? Watered them once in Dec with 20-20-20 made up properly. No other plant watered from the same batch of fertilizer has the problem. Red Sister isn't pink, it's burgundy. The pinks look much better.
Brugie- what makes you think you have a fungus on yours? The leaf in the fron tlooks dry and crisp at the tip to me. The spots look like what I have on RS.
One more note:
It's dry in my house. We keep our heat between 70-75 degrees
The Red sister is almost on top of the heat vent.
I don't water until the surface looks dry.
When I water, I don't saturate the soil.
And all my Ti plants are fine.
But I swear, if I give too much water, mist, or get water on the leaves, the leaves turn brown. None of this may make sense, but I killed one last winter, and I'm convinced now that it was too much water and misting during winter.
I understand what you mean about wanting to find out what might have happened to this plant. When I suggested the Extension office I did not mean for the agent to diagnose (few agents out side of Fl and CA know tropicals) but for them to send a sample off to their labs where it would be evaluated. They have the appropriate scopes and computers that can determine what caused the decline in your plant.
My partner and I found some of my leaves in the garden with those same spots...and they are a fungus. Not saying that yours IS... I think many Ti can have different reactions to things....hopefully Red Sister will grow out of it when she goes outdoors.... You sure have a wonderful collection!!!
Carol
Well if it is a fungus, I'll keep up the Bonide's and stop the misting, keeping the soil moist. That can't hurt it.
And good that RS is away from the others. Thanks for the compliment!
