Newbie for Goldfish and Koi needs some Advice -

Hi - I'm a newbie for fish - put in goldfish in the summer of 2005. My pond is 4' deep and a diameter of 18'. Last winter I had about 20 fish and did not lose any. The largest at that time was about 8".

In the summer of 2006, Russ gave me 6 koi - the largest about 8", and the goldfish expanded tremedously to about 70 fish total by the end of the season. I'd say the largest is about 11."

Now I'm worried about oxygen since we've had sub-zero weather for a week or so, and the ice is about 4" thick on the pond. I have a heater which keeps the pond from freezing over, and had a pump going for aeration until early January due to warm weather in December.

But I've read that larger fish need more oxygen, and that the number of fish can affect how many can survive - HELP!! Your knowledge and any advice would be greatly appreciated! Will they be OK? Should I be doing something else? Argh!! Dax

Here's a pic from the end of last summer -

70 goldfish is a lot of goldfish. You should ask yourself what you really want in the pond.......if you want goldifsh you will need to catch and get rid of some every year, I would say even 70 is way too many even for your pond and consider the rate they multiplied last year and imagine how many you'll have next year. They really do breed like bunnies :-(

Water will hold considerably less oxygen in summer than in winter and yes large fish are more succeptible than small fish, but especially large koi- they tend to go first. They'll be fine this winter, sounds like you're doing great. As the weather warms, fish sucking at the top of the water will LYK your water doesn't have enough oxygen.

There are formulas for calculating how many fish per surface area of water but they are all relative to the pond in question, if you have awesome filtration and awesome aeration you can keep considerably more fish than someone who doesn't, that doesn't mean you have to keep all those fish either though.

OH - Thanks alot for reassuring me on the fish for this winter - you've relieved my mind. And I was wondering about the number, for sure - especially as they get bigger. We have a shop here that will take fish off your hands, and I thought that when I clean the pond in the early spring, I would keep the koi (6) and about 10 of my favorite gold fish and take the rest to the shop for redistribution. That should give them plenty of space to grow. The only problem seems to be that gold fish really multiply fast, and I'll always have the problem of too many as long as I keep them. I've read about folks that have given up keeping gold fish just for that reason. Right?

Advice? I just hate to give up some of my favorites since I've seen them grow from 4 inches or less - especially the Shubumkins (sp?). I do have another pond - about 8' x 10', but it's only 2 feet deep - maybe keep the koi in the big pond, and have a few goldfish in the smaller one? It would be easier to remove the goldfish from the smaller pond, but I don't know if they would survive a winter in only two feet - Thoughts? Comments?

Dax

Here's a pic of the smaller top pond -

Dax, I've heard that a few golden orfe's will stabilize your goldfish population. They will eat the eggs and any fry that manage to survive long enough to hatch, but they won't harm your larger goldfish. They are very social so it is usually recommended that you get at least 3.

Nice pond :o) Shubs are nice fish, Dax, I can see why you don't want to get rid of all the goldies. I like the conclusion you came to, to keep the goldfish you really like in the small pond, but I have no idea about keeping them in there during the winter I'm afraid. You're right, most people will either give up goldfish or keep a separate pond for them and a big one for koi, it's much easier that way. Does your little pond freeze all the way thru? I seem to recall 18" was a magic # in freezing pond depth, but just don't know, I hope someone does.

Hey, thanks - Songs of Joy - golden orfe's? What are those? I haven't heard of them - I'll go look them up on google. And azreno, thanks for your comments - I'm not sure about the 2' either - I know last year they might have survived, but we never had the ice get as thick as this - today I'd say it's up to 5" thick - and maybe thicker on the small pond since it IS shallower. That would mean that the water depth is down to 18" or less - with no end in sight for this frigid weather - Anybody know about this? Dax

I believe as long as the whole thing doesn't freeze and you have a hole for gas exchange, they will survive.

Oh, thanks - that's great to know - I think I'll go ahead with the two ponds next year, then - Dax

Cold water holds more oxygen than warm water and koi have a slightly reduced need for oxygen in the winter. As long as you have an open water area at all times for gas exchange your koi will be fine. The open area can be pretty modest. If you have a large surface area try two deicers in different spots, about 300 watts each. They won't run up the electric bill enormously and any gasses the pond is producing with decomposing sludge or other organic debris can vent. Trapped gasses ARE killers.

Yippee!! We've had 40 degree weather for the past 2 days, and the pond has unfrozen to a great extent - AAAANNNNDDDD - today I saw the koi and goldfish (not all, but the biggest ones) and they were fine! So relieved --- of course, I almost fell in - getting down on my hands and knees and peering around the ice still in the pond - ah well - life is good - Dax

You are not the only one trying to get a peak at the fish after a long freeze. My DH actually fell in two days ago. Not a soaking, just forgot where the edge was and stumbled around on the 1' planting shelf. We have about a foot and a half of snow plus drifts so he couldn't really tell. I felt bad cause I sent him out there - after I stopped laughing.

Haa, Haa - Made my day - I've got that same 1' planting shelf and have fallen in the same way - just mistep and slide right on in. Of course, that was in the summer, not winter. It's the only time in my life I've gotten close to the splits, I thought my DH would die laughing. I feel for your dear DH and I'm glad he didn't go all the way - that would have been COLD!! Dax

Hey Becki; Just stumbled into this post. Glad to hear all the fish are doing fine.
The goldies should do just fine in the upper pool next winter. If you can get them to stay there. Just keep a small pump churning the surface water, to keep a hole open. I will admit to the hole freezing over in my pond, this winter tho. I only had to break ice twice this winter. I think that if I had had the pump aimed better that it would not have froze even then.
See you at the RU..

Russ

Hey, Russ - Looking forward to seeing you at RU - yep, I'm sure happy they are doing well - was a bit concerned - Got a tip from another thread to put some netting across the front of the falls that leaves that pond, so I should be able to keep them in the top pond next year - Bec