I have a small (Honda) tiller. I want to get rid of the St. Augustine grass along the sidewalk so I can plan a border of daylilies, dianthus, etc., and get rid of grass to mow. Question is the best way to do it.
1. Till, and till again.
2. Roundup.
3. Roundup and till.
4. Force my DS to learn to use a stirrup hoe.
5. Other.
Help me! TIA!!!
soil and tilling question
Dig it up by hand with a shovel at least to the depth of the shovel, a little piece at a time and remove all roots.
Add lots of compost, a little alfalfa meal and some rock phosphate, work it all in, mulch and water. There rally are no shortcuts.
You will have a beautiful garden.
Josephine
Go to the following link for an excellent discussion on sod removal
http://forums2.gardenweb.com/forums/load/design/msg071607178260.html?6
The consensus of that discussion was that renting a sod cutter is the best method.
I don't have a tiller, but I removed the St. Augustine in my side yard with a shovel. I then built a raised bed in that area. The side yard is partial shade, so the SA wasn't too healthy there (reason why I removed it). I haven't had a problem with it growing back in. As long as you don't have any Burmuda or vigorous weeds mixed in with the SA, you should do OK without using roundup (SA is not very hardy)
My side yard is small, so the shovel method wasn't too strenuous.
I've read that scalping the lawn (by setting a power mower to the lowest level) first will help with SA removal.
There are some machines specifically designed for scalping.
I think you'll do just fine with the scalp, then sod cutter, then till, then place newspaper or some other barrier over the area, then dump mulch over the newspaper/barrier. SA is still dormant right now, so it might be a little more resistant to permanent removal at this time.
I forgot-
If there is any question of potential disruption of underground pipes/cables/power lines, be sure to have the respective companies mark the area.
SA is relatively easy to eradicate. It is shallow rooted (~12") unlike Burmuda whose roots can go down 6'. Removing the crown (above ground or slightly below ground stems) usually kills SA. Rotilling breaks up the remaining stems and roots speeding their decomposition. This process uses nitrogen so adding steer manure or some other source of nitrogen is necessary. Fortunately, SA is not like Burmuda which will resprout from every node remaining in the ground. If a few strands re-emerge, they should come out easily.
Collincountrytx is right! I completely forgot that aspect. There is a One Call number that you call and they will contact all utilities for you. We had a response the same day. The pipelines going through our property are all at least 4' deep, but I have read about some companies who barely bury their lines leading to some pretty gruesome outcomes.
This message was edited Jan 30, 2007 3:24 PM
I used a shovel to de-sod at first, but broke the handle on my spading forks in the hard clay-like soil.
Bought a Mantis tiller. Went right through the SA. Had to remove the "SA strings" every 15-20 min, but doubled the garden space in less than one afternoon. Went down only about 8", then blended in a bale of peatmoss and a couple hundred pounds of topsoil.
As the SA and Bermuda keep trying to crowd in, I just till around all 4 sides expanding the space a little each time. Only takes about 30 minutes - garden is roughly 10x20.
Have had the yard marked for utility lines several times - garden is well away from them.
Utility locating is free to you, I understand the utitlity companies pay for the service. To their advantage in the long run. Brigidlily, is this a long walk? A flat bladed spade should remove the grass far easier. I would donate to someone else or relocate it if you have a spot that is bare. Otherwise, you will till all the grass roots, runners in to take root and plague you. Sounds pretty. A business in town has a row of yellow daylilies mixed with yellow lantana. They bloom at the same time and are so pretty.
Oh, pod, I was contemplating where to put the lantana!!! Now I know exactly where it goes. Thank you!
It's a fairly long walk, I guess 30' or so, surrounding the front rose garden. I don't want just a line of daylilies but a slightly undulating cottage-type border there. I hope this is the right picture:
Yes, that's it. I layered the inside part with cardboard, etc., and still pull up grass. Where the espaliers are, I used the stirrup hoe to pull up the sod (I use it to repair the horribly gullied sides of the ditch) and still pull up grass there, too! That's why I'm wondering if I should start with roundup. Though I've used it on a stretch in the back and I'm still pulling up grass there, too!
As hard as most people around here work to get their St. Augustine established... if I could have their "bad" luck with it and they could have my "good" luck, we'd all be happy.
Edited to say I also recall a Paul James the Gardener Guy episode where he had to get grass up for a bed, and highly recommended not using a sod cutter -- said it will kill your back, and using a hoe is better!
This message was edited Jan 31, 2007 10:06 AM
I would avoid roundup if you can. Its a noxious pollutant and many feel it should be banned.
What if you just covered the sod area in 2 or 3 layers of newspaper, wet it, then put mulch on top? After 6 months the paper will have rotted and the grass should be dead from lack of sun and air. You can just cut holes into it for planting. Worked for me with some real hardy bermuda grass. A few strands pop up now and then but its easy to pull it out.
Brigidlily ~ In the bed of lilies and lantana, they use the small lantana. I don't know the variety but these just don't grow tall. pod
We have SA in the front yard which is very shady and burmuda in the back where most of my beds are. I wish it was the other way around. SA is so much easier to get rid of. The next time I dig a bed in the front I'll transplant it to the back and plant it next to my flower beds. If it does well it'll crowd out the burmuda and make life much easier for me.:)
When you do get rid of your SA, be sure you cover the soil quickly with something to keep out as many burmuda seeds as possible
Mary Lee
Thanks for the tip, silverfluter -- I'll keep that in mind for sure.
tobydmv, I may pull up the sod and then put down a small newspaper layer. I just want to plant within a couple of weeks of "desodding" and am not sure it would be ready. I did the rose garden (inside the sidewalk) that way and wished ever since that I'd pulled out the grass first. The rose bushes wound up sitting in little islands of grass, which grew through the holes I'd made for planting the roses. Easy enough to pull, granted, but I'd have been better off with the extra effort.
Have you ever heard of lasagna gardening? I don't know if this would work for you but if you aren't familiar with it, this is a link for info... http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/649906/
Edited to add: the grass still needs to be removed...
This message was edited Feb 1, 2007 7:22 PM
This link says ~ don't remove the grass ~ wish they'd make up their minds. LOL http://ourgardengang.tripod.com/lasagna_gardening.htm
This message was edited Feb 1, 2007 7:26 PM
That's pretty much what I did getting the rose bed ready, but since this area will actually be unedged along lawn, I can't really build it up. I think I'll have DS pull up the sod, then till, then lay down newspaper (shredded, and not very thick) and then dirt and compost and plant in that.
Then the sod bits will go in the gullies that run down the d@%^#d ditch and hopefully cure my ills there.
Oh, if only I could just be Samantha just for a couple of hours!!!!!