Bulb ID requested!

OK - I'm sure someone can ID - I purchased these on ebay.....I think these
were mistakenly shipped to me and my crinum bulbs shipped to someone else.
I'll be the first to say that I have a lot to learn and am,...by no means,...an expert....but I think I do know what a crinum bulb looks like. I don't think these are crinums....unless some kind of special type I'm unaware of.
Before I contact the seller....I needed to be sure....so I'm asking for assistance
in education :~) BTW- these are suppose to be Crinum americanum or, more likely,....C. erubescens. Thanks!

They are definitely not C. americanum--I have lots of those--nor any other Crinum bulb I have ever seen; including the smaller ones like C. lugardiae that I also have several of. Now I have some less than one year old and one year old crinum seedlings, but I have never washed the soil off to see what they look like. And I won't until it gets warmer. Were they supposed to be very young plants? If anything, they look more like crinum seeds--except they don't look right for that either to me. Was that picture taken in bright sun? I think the sun is that shining orb in the sky--but I can't really remember because it hasn't shown its face around here in a while.....

These ARE Crinums, but they're seeds, not bulbs. Check to see what the seller said - I'll bet somewhere in the small print there's a notice that what you were to receive were seeds. Unfortunately these will take 5-6 years or more to get to blooming size.

They will grow a kind of rootlike thing out of the bottom called a radicle. It isn't a real root; it's a mechanism to pull the seed down into the soil. Partway down the radicle a leaf will begin to grow. This leaf will turn into the plant and bulb. The part you have now, the seed, is used as nutrients for the new plant until it's big enough to grow on its own. Here's a site which explains it much better than I can: http://www.mainlyamaryllidsgarden.com/ah/amseeds.htm Scroll down to the second picture to see examples of your seeds.

Marilyn

They sure don't look like seeds of C americanum then; and I have a multitude of the plants and have seen many of their seeds.

If you end up keeping them; the best method I have found for plants from seeds down here (and crinums will bloom in 3 yrs down here if you do everything just right) is to get several paper towels wet, then wring the excess water out. Open and flatten them and lay the seeds on them at about the half way mark. Fold the paper towels in half (in other words use half to cover the seeds) and put into a gallon sized baggie that zips (with the zipper is easiest) and get as much air out as possible. Put them somewhere out of direct sun and regular house temps (our reg house temps down here are never very cold--lol). Check them about every week and when they have a good sized root and a short leaf (which will look like grass) pot them up in a good soil mix in at least a gallon container. If its an inferno outside by that time keep them in the shade for a month, otherwise put out into sun. Water with weak 8-8-8. They will bloom the third year if all conditions are good--if not perfect, the 4th for sure.

This message was edited Jan 7, 2007 12:31 PM

These are certainly not "pretty" examples, but they were put out in August. They were also the only ones I could quickly get to navigating around all the standing water and other pots. I figure if this process works down here in August--it will work for most anyone. I don't think the temps in the day ever dropped below 94, did they? lol

Thanks Debbie & Marilyn,.....I've never seen Crinum seeds 'til now......I'm glad I asked for help before going back to the seller. Much Appreciated! Lee

Thanks for the info re growing the Crinums in your area. I couldn't, of course, provide that. The Crinum seeds I've seen which look the most like Lee's were C. bulbispermum. I suspect the seeds in Lee's picture are probably not quite so bright in real life.

Marilyn

They probably are pekasky--you have to realize we've hardly seen the sun shine in 2 weeks. Starting this early with the seeds Lee you should have a lot of good growth this season. I never have any fresh seeds until its an inferno out there. I don't have C. bulbispermum. I've put a halt to all the large crinums due to running out of room. Those I started last summer are all of the large ones I'm growing. They are Marcelle Sheppard's hybrids I'm growing out for a friend who wants them for his yard when they get larger--he will just kill them at this stage--a gardener he is not.

I actually got to see one of my oxalis' bloom today, a rare treat. Another was simply covered in bloom buds yesterday, in the fog. Not a single bud on it now. =(

Hmmm...They look like Crinum Asiaticum seeds. The C. erubescens are rounder. I've got tons of these guys popping off my plants. They take a long time to grow to maturity, but a mature specimen can grow to 10 feet tall or more and offset to the tune of hundreds of bulblets.
I've seen bulbs for this one weighing over forty pounds...

Well,....they were inexpensive.....and whichever they develop into will be OK....
not exactly what I wanted....but considering some of the experiences of receiving mis-identified bulbs,seeds,etc.....that I've read about here on DG....
I knew of the potential....even with established Sellers......still,...a disappointment. Thanks for all of your opinions and wisdom!

Wish I could go back in time....I remember where there use to be a large grouping of "Swamp Lilies" growing wild in a swampy area in the north side of Houston....real close to the (I think) Irvington Drive-In Theater.....a few years back! :~)

Go back Lee--if they haven't built houses there, they will probably still be surviving. I got my starts of Hymenocallis galvestonensis from the field down the street that's now another subdivision, 5 years ago.

If I can get any seed off of my C americanums this summer that I can guarantee isn't crossed with anything else, you are welcome to have all of them. That's not one I do from seed.

Thanks Debbie....I'd certainly give 'em a try!

The location I was referring to is now sub-divided and covered in concrete and/or asphalt and I'm sure an abundance of mass-produced non-native vegetation

BTW - I contacted the seller and the seller confirmed that she knew that,... what she advertised as bulbs,...were, in fact,....seeds. Claimed that the reason she did so,....she had numerous transactions (previous sales of the same) where the customers complained that the "seeds" they had purchased....were incorrectly shipped....thinking that they had rec'd "bulbs" instead. Yes,....that's how it was explained to me. I think it probably took longer to reply to my inquiry
than it would've taken to include a sentence (on her Ebay page) explaining that the "Seeds" do look like bulbs BUT....

This message was edited Jan 8, 2007 9:09 AM

Can you show the listing, or give us the seller's name? I sure don't want to buy from her! The seller should be willing to give you your $$$ back (including shipping!) since the transaction was fraudulent. If the seller isn't willing to do this or even if you just don't want to return the seeds, definitely leave her negative feedback and report her to eBay. They DO NOT tolerate sellers like this, and they'll let her know or might even suspend her.

I was just discussing, w/my DW....the best way to handle this. I'd like to discuss w/Ebay first. I agree that the seller should be ID'd (for all of us in DG, in particular)....for the sake of other Ebayer's,..as well.....just makes me kinda heartsick to have to negatively-call-down someone who,...possibly,...may just not have thought things out? I've no qualms about holding a shyster to the flame....but I'd like to know which type she may be...let me discuss w/Ebay and I'll post again...with more details.

I'm fairly sure you have some Crinum Asiaticum seeds there. The problem with the "seeds" is that they're large enough to be thought of as bulbs. Some of them get to be about the size of a small potato.
I think people are used to seeds being little, flighty things with wings. When they get as big as an asiaticum seed they more resemble bulbs.
I'm sure it was inexperience on the seller's part.

Please note that Crinum erubescens seeds look just like what you've got, but they're smaller than an asiaticum seed.

This message was edited Jan 14, 2007 7:13 PM

Will Crinum seeds be true like the parent??..Thanks...Jeanne

It depends on the parents, whether they are a species or stable hybrid, that produce identical offspring.

A selfed species will reproduce itself, but a seedling can result that differs in appearance from the parent, but is basically identical genetically. It would be a "sport", a sudden mutation. The difference is usually a small one.

If the pollinator is a different species or hybrid, the offspring will be different, though there might be some that closely resemble a parent.

A lot of hybrids (an x herbertii or x powellii, for example) are mostly self-sterile, though their pollen may or may not be sterile as well. Some of the presumed self-sterile plants might rarely produce a seed or two, but it isn't to be expected. Some cultivars are self-sterile but will accept pollen from another cultivar or species.

C. asiaticum when selfed (and I mean both parents are asiaticum, not that the pollen is necessarily from the same blossom) reproduces true. Many other species do this as well.

And when you are dealing with seeds, you have to know "who" the parents were to know what the "children" will be like. If you can be reasonably sure that the parent was grown in relative isolation from other Crinums of any kind, it is most likely self-pollinated and will come true from seed. If there are other types within bee-flight, it could be a cross or a self.

R.

That is exactly as I thought...so those seeds most probably won't be true 'Crinum americanum '
and that would be fraudulant for someone to sell them as that...that is a shame!!..I would most definitely not order from that person again..bulbs are more than seeds anyway....Jeanne

Oh, that's not what I meant to say.

There is every probability that they are true to type. I was speaking in general, not about anyone's seeds in particular, that is, not about the one's that were being discussed in this thread, necessarily.

Trouble is, you won't know the answer for years. The good part is, you might wind up with a great new hybrid.

PS~
If the grower is a careful one, s/he would have hand pollinated the parent to assure that they were true to type.

R.





This message was edited Jan 16, 2007 10:07 AM

Thanks Raydio,...for the info.

I've developed the opinion that the Seller was somewhat naive and not intentionally misleading. Ebay is addressing the misrepresentation. I have decided not to leave negative feedback.....but neutral instead.

If anyone would like to review the transaction the No. was: 110068842455
for 2 - Crinum bulbs....they're not listed as any particular species....I wrote & asked her for the scientific description.....her reply stated that the description she rec'd was C. americanum....and she thought that's what they were. So ,...I willingly took the chance that I would not receive true americanum....I can't get too disgruntled about that.....the listing as bulbs instead of seeds is going to be rectified. I've decided to keep the seeds and grow whatever they are....I won't mind if they are, in fact, asiaticum. I try to focus on native Texas & US plants...alas,...as I get older,...it's harder to focus at times :~) Lee

You're absolutely right - nowhere in the listing does it mention that these are seeds. In addition, she has the same item listed again, and has NOT changed her description to state that they are seeds, not bulbs. See item #110079606412. eBay should be notified that her nefarious behavior is continuing. These kinds of sellers make it hard on all of the honest ones. I also find it curious that she's only received feedback for less than half of her transactions. I won't be buying from her, that's for sure.

Marilyn