I posted the 2006 list last year and thought I would do it again for those of you who haven't received a copy. You'll probably have to click on the thumbnail, then right-click on the image, and save it to your hard drive. You can then use a photo program to zoom in to read it.
Page 1
Page 2
Page 3
Page 4
I got mine yesterday too. There is some pretty interesting info in it and he clarifies a lot of misinformation (names, diseases) that circulates on the web. alice
Thanks Clare, I dont have a scanner so I took a picture
of the last page that was included in the news letter.
I have this book and I think it's wonderful...
Thanks, Alice and Dave.
Dave, I was going to include that back page, but since it said "Advertisement" on it, I didn't want Dave's administrators to think I was advertising the book. They are sensitive about that kind of stuff (with good reason). I have the book too, and it has so many beautiful pictures.
Alice, Jim Little is a plumeria giant for sure, for whom I have a great amount of respect; however, there are a few areas that some growers disagree with Jim about -- one of them is grafting and another is Koko Crater. Koko Crater has been ravaged by the borer beetle, the Frangipani mosaic tobamovirus, and disease. There has been and is currently an on-going documentation of this, and from what I understand there is a clean-up project in progress as well. Pictures of the damage at Koko Crater can be found here: http://s49.photobucket.com/albums/f255/freelands001/Borer%20Damage%20Koko/ This damage is not, however, isolated to Koko Crater and can be found in other neglected areas of Hawaii, South Florida, and Southern California. I'm sure growers like Jim Little don't have that problem on his farms as his plumie trees are well taken care of.
I'm sorry if I broke any rules,that was never my intent.
I should have realized that you omited that page for a good reason.
No worries, Mate;-) I was just being cautious -- perhaps overly so. I'm sure it's fine. Let's face it, the posted Price List is one big advertisment; isn't it? LOL! Insert disclaimer: I am in no way associated with Jim Little or his business:-)
Everytime I go to this site, there is so much valuable info. Lots of good reading during dormancy. Thanks again Clare. ---- Rosa
I have to disagree with Mr Little on something..
Reading his news letter i got he is wrong about the key west red...
The key west red i believe is what we call miami magenta..
Maybe i am wrong but i think they might be the same flower..
Hard to tell with lucs pictures but if they are the same then my miami magenta
which my grandfather had in his yard in the 50's was over 20 feet high..
That being said how can Mr.Little say it is a Liz Thorton cvs?
I know he likes to boast about Hawaii's plumeria and rightfully so but he never mentions
and intentionally leaves out florida and their varieties.He mentions Cali and Texas plumies but
nothing on the Florida varieties and Florida sellers!!!
I see this as another jab towards Luc because not only does he bring up Key West Red but fails to mention
Florida as a place to buy proper plumies.
I am not a seller but i am confuse that Mr.Little can be so arrogant for it is us (Florida) who have the oldest plumies in the country.Yes my beloved Hawaii has taken it to another level and has so many wonderful varieties
but please if you want to corner the market please don't do it at our expense!!
On other issues he mentions i have to agree on most of them..
On the issue of Thailand and other countries plumies that he mentions??
Well i have to say yes it can be expensive to buy from them (thailand,oz,etc..) but for someone who sells
12'' sticks for lots of money should you be bashing others who charge for their services..
Most of the thai sellers i deal with don't add that expensive shipping charge on their own..
Anyone can go the the thai post site and check what the rates are..
These are just my 2 cents as a collector/buyer and i do not sell plumies and never had but maybe in the near future i will start who knows..
I know i run the risk of someone disagreeing with me but that is the beauty of a forum however make sure
you know the history of some of the sellers you deal with and before you jump on anyone's bandwagon me included do a little homework and get the facts..
I too can fit in this category but understand i was born with a lei around my neck and i have the pic to prove it :)
What i am trying to say is some of us down in florida have been around plumies as long or longer then most of the big time sellers and know what we are talking about.
Mr.Little is correct we need to do something about the nameing problems however (big however) the powers to be needs to be fair and change the names on alot of our local plumies.JL said it best and that you can offend the locals when you change the name of a plumie and called it something it is not!
Lol i won't even step into that storm as that issue has been beaten here already :)
..this should spurns some replies hehe!
Well said Robert, that is the beauty of the forum. I hope you did not think I was saying JL is "the word" on plummies. I don't know enough about plumerias to seriously address the issues but I appreciated his thoughts just as I would any one's. Anything that keeps the old gray matter active is good as far as I am concerned.
I do not grow many plummies but I do grow a lot of other tropicals and the question of names involving all families of plants is a huge issue right now.
Incidentally, I've bought from Luc, Brad and Sandy and have been VERY pleased with all my plants and my dealings with the growers.
alice
Thanks, Rosa, for your supportive message! I appreciate that!
Robert, my dear,
There are a few things that I disagree with JL about, and I do believe you bring up some very valid points.
I'm also not sure that I agree that Hawaii is at the forefront of hybridizing. I think Thailand is at the forefront, but there is no way to prove this one way or the other.
JL brings up some good points about the problem of named cultivars being renamed in other countries, and one look at Plumeriathai.com shows this to be true. One look at eBay shows that there is a problem. JL said "The latest take-off was a Thailand vendor selling JL Tornado. Tornado has not been released to collectors in Thailand." Well, I'm not sure when Tornado was released, but I have no doubt that, very shortly after it was released to a collector here in the states, it was sent all over the country if not the world. JL may not realize the extent of trading that goes on between countries.
I know how you feel about other people taking Florida's natives and naming them and registering them, and I agree with you about this. Emerson and others have done it quite a bit. JL says that Key West Red is not a seedling of Elizabeth Thornton, but it was discovered and named by her and should be called 'Cranberry,' which is the name she gave it, I guess. Yes, it is true that she didn't find it in the jungle and probably "discovered" it in someone else's backyard, but she gets the credit for registering it, I guess, regardless of its local name. We can still put all the local names in the PlantFiles database though and still remind everyone of the local names and make them synonyms.
JL gives two other names for Penang Peach that he found in Thailand, but then says that they are look-alike seedlings. Earlier this year, I found that Penang Peach has many names: Som Kalasin, Som Garasin, Thai Orange, Thai Gold, and California Sunset to name a few. That there is a naming problem is not news.
I'm glad that he mentioned that he doesn't identify flowers from a picture. That is a good policy and one that I might just adopt.
I think it is too bad that he has a feud with Luc and that he doesn't mention Luc or Florida in his news letter. I think you have a right to feel snubbed. I hope it was just an oversight and not an intentional snub. Plumie politics are ugly, and I want no part of them. Luc is a wonderful man for whom I have an enormous amount of respect and is due respect from other sellers as well.
Robert, I think you are great!
Well said, Alice!
Edited to fix spelling:-)
This message was edited Jan 4, 2007 4:20 PM
Clare,
You just said a real mouthful when you said, "Plumie politics are really ugly!". It seems, especially when the issue is money, that many plumie people take leave of their senses and like to practice cutthroat tactics.
I can't speak for JL and Luc having any kind of feud, as I am not qualified to comment on something I know little about, so I am leaving them out of this. I don't know JL, or anything about him except that he sells nice plumeria and wrote a book.
Luc, I DO know and I find him a real Gem in the plumeria world--a genuinely nice fellow and an awesome plumerian.
However, as you and I both know, it IS ugly out there as we have both taken heat from a small number of very manipulative and nasty-spirited plumeria people.
I often ask myself. "WHY?". These are PLANTS for Pete's sake. I think some people simply have nothing better to do with their time that sit in forums for hours and stir up meanness and negativity. I myself am getting better at avoiding them; learning not to get so angry with the sophmoric antics, little subtle, jabs; passive aggressive attacks; and ugly business and personal gossip. It seems like once you start becoming known in certain circles, you are considered fair game. These things are poison to the soul and I am hoping for the strength in the New year to even better avoid becoming tangled in these webs, and, avoiding harboring negative emotions.
In this New Year I wish to focus on the positives, friends, family; positive people, my new acreage/nursery/house; , and all the really nice plumeria people I have gotten to know over the last 4 years. I also pray that a lot of new and nice plumeria people come into the fold this year and expand our every growing family; bringing in new and fresh ideas; lots of laughter, and the joy of growing these wonderful plants.
Wow brad, well said!
Congrats on the new place! :~)
Thanks for the replies they all mean alot to me as they are done in good intent..
Text can be misleading as reading over my post one could say i am ranting..
This is fine but i am no seller so i have nothing to gain at all.
I guess i felt like defending sellers like Luc who i never bought a single plumie from because i have most
of his plumies in my backyard but i find him a honorable man so it is my human nature to defend good people.
I am also defending wheather they like it or not :=) other florida sellers because i know many of them and they
are responsible for sharing our wonderful local varieties to the world and this is what i am about. I have given
away cuttings that would cost you a arm and a leg it is not about money for me but pure love of a plant that i grew
up around and was use to seeing the flowers around my mother and father's neck and my aunts and cousins ears :)
I guess i was defending sellers like Brad who is top notch and a honorable man in my book because i been buying from him since he started..
Brad doesn't need defending he is more then capable of doing that, again just my nature..
I am defending others like Anus,Roger even Sue and all the personal sellers in florida like Hetty,etc..
Finally i like to say this!!
I do this for all the new plumie lovers who just discovered plumies in the last year or so..
I don't like the way some things are done and the way some of the old timers bash you if you say something
they don't like or agree with!
Brad and others know i rock the boat on other forums from time to time but i do it in good faith and to keep
the balance. :)
I just feel the plumie world is run by a few plumie gods who don't share their info and don't share your point of views.
It is these gods i like to rattle their cages from time to time to keep them in check.
Who am i for doing this NOBODY just someone who wants to make sure all the new plumie growers have all the right tools and info to be successful growers/collectors and not to be steered in a wrong direction or a direction the plumie gods want you to take.
So i say listen to Clare and other veteran growers here and you will be fine, venture out from these forums and i say be very cautious and have a open mind and always ask questions if you are not sure about anything.
Don't be mislead or feel you have to go with the flow just because others seem to be doing it..
This is the same with my post i am not the golden word in the plumie land i am a simple man who loves to share what i learn from my own methods.Learn from Clare,Mike,Hetty,Brad,and many others here and use that knowledge and make your own conculsions..
Happy Growing!
Lopaka
..now if you will excuse me while i go to another forum and write a book on how i got my seedlings that are only 8 months old to flower!
Plumies for you! (o.~)
@}>-'-,--
@)}---^-----
--------{---(@
However, as you and I both know, it IS ugly out there as we have both taken heat from a small number of very manipulative and nasty-spirited plumeria people.
I often ask myself. "WHY?" These are PLANTS for Pete's sake. I think some people simply have nothing better to do with their time that sit in forums for hours and stir up meanness and negativity. I myself am getting better at avoiding them; learning not to get so angry with the sophmoric antics, little subtle, jabs; passive aggressive attacks; and ugly business and personal gossip. It seems like once you start becoming known in certain circles, you are considered fair game. These things are poison to the soul and I am hoping for the strength in the New year to even better avoid becoming tangled in these webs, and, avoiding harboring negative emotions.
In this New Year I wish to focus on the positives, friends, family; positive people, my new acreage/nursery/house; and all the really nice plumeria people I have gotten to know over the last 4 years. I also pray that a lot of new and nice plumeria people come into the fold this year and expand our every growing family; bringing in new and fresh ideas; lots of laughter, and the joy of growing these wonderful plants.
This was posted over at another forum by a plumie grower named Kathleen, and I thought I would re-post it here. It is very interesting and helpful. Many of these aka's are already listed in PlantFiles and can be seen there. I added a few that were not there before and changed things around a bit.
"This got inspired by the confusion over Julie's Pink Australis. Personally, having limitations on my plumeria budget, I resent buying the same plumeria under different names. Here is a list compiled mostly from PSA and discussion on this forum. Being no expert, I write things down so please don't shoot the messenger. This is only trying to get a continuing list going. The additional list is for those that people are still arguing over. It just seems, if they're close enough for people to argue over, maybe we don't "need" to purchase both. Corrections and additions are definitely wanted."
Angus Gold, Donald Angus Gold, Pauahi Ali'i
Angus Selection #3, Donald Angus #3
Aztec Gold, South Florida Gold, Key Largo Gold
Bali Palace, Lueang Gandjana
Bill Moragne, Bill Moragne, Sr.
California Sally, Bud's Sally, California Bud's Sally, Bellevista, Jameson’s, Bella Vista
Cancun Pink, Playful, Mexican Pink
Candy Stripe, Pinwheel Rainbow, Pet Sairung
Capalaba Pink, Australia
Celadine, Hawaiian Yellow, Graveyard Yellow, Common Yellow
Charlotte Ebert, Giant Plastic Pink
Cooktown Sunset, Col.'s Cooktown Sunset, Cookstown Sunset
Courtade Lemon, Thornton Lemon
Cousin It, Erv's Rainbow
Cozumel Pink, Cozumel
Cyndy Moragne, Cindy Moragne
Daeng Udon (most Thais use this name) but some call Thailand Red (in English)
Donald Angus, Donald Angus Red, University Cherry Pink
Dwarf Pink Singapore, Petite Pink, Dwarf Pink
EWC #3, East West Center #3
Gold, Peterson’s Yellow
Hausten White, Willows White
Heidi, Pure Gold, Heidi's Gold, Kokohead Yellow
Irma Bryan, Irma Bryant, Thai One, Darwin Blood
Iris Rock Sunset, Iris Sunset, Iris Rock
Jack's Purple, Muang Jack
J.L. Hawaiian Sunset, Hawaiian Sunset
J.L. Pink Pansy, Pink Pansy
Japanese Lantern, Flower Basket
Jean Moragne, Jean Moragne, Sr.
Jeannie Moragne, Jean Moragne, Jr.
Kaleinani, Kaulanani, Kauanani, University of Hawaii Orange
Kalina, Danny's Mermaid Gem, Darryl's Mermaid Gem
Keiki, Miniature Lavender
Key West Red, Cranberry
King Kalakaua, Miniature White
Kona Hybrid, Horace Clay, Kona Hybrid #26
Madame Poni, Corkscrew, Curly Holt, Waianae Beauty, Star, Ponytail
Maui Beauty, Manoa Beauty
Mele Matson, Mela Matson
Mele Pa Bowman, Singapore Yellow
Moragne #93, Reddish Moragne
Mrs. Malestrom, Cherry Coke
Nebel's Gold, Moiliili Gold
Nebel's Rainbow, Lei Rainbow, Yellow Rainbow
Peggy Higdon, Higdon Pink, Peggy’s Pink, Annabell
Penang Peach, Som Garasin, Thai Gold, Thai Yellow, Thai Orange, Thai Salmon, California Sunset, Som Kalasin
Pink Australis, Fairy Wings, Aussie Pink, Common Aussie Pink
Plastic Pink, Royal Hawaiian
Princess of Metairie Pink, Metairie Pink
Princess Victoria Adriana, Princess Victoria
Pudica, Bridal Bouquet
Puu Kahea, O'Sullivan, Fiesta
Ruffles, Vanda Ruffles, Vanda
Samoan Fluff, Tahitian White
San Germaine, Madison White
Scott Pratt, Kohala
Sharon Lavonne, Let’s Do the Twist
Sherman, Polynesian White
Siam Red (in English) = Daeng Sayam (in Thai)
Singapore, Khao Puang
Slaughter Pink is not the same as Chompoo Nut (but 99.99% of the Thais say they are the same)
Som Raya (most Thais use this name) = Firestorm
Sweet Candy, Chompoo Khao Yai
Teresa Wilder, Teddy, Teddy Wilder
Texas Sunshine, Sunshine Texas
Thai Mermaid Gem = Daeng Mang Mee (not many Thais use this name)
Thai Tornado (is a Thai seedling #4606) is not JL Tornado
Thornton's Lemon Drop, Lemon Drop
Tomlinson, Tomlinson Pink
True Blue, North Queensland Blue
U. S. Highway One, U. S. One, Beach Road Rainbow
Yugambeh Spirit, Old Gold
Possibly/Probably the same or at least just extremely close
Bonnie Fox---Volcano Goddess
Makaha Sunn---Sunkist---Embers?
Solar Flare---King Napranum?
(When everyone agrees or they come up with DNA testing for plumeria, we can move these around. )
Edited to update list.
This message was edited Feb 17, 2007 3:47 PM
Below are my opinion on some related to Thai names:
Bali Palace = Lueang Gandjana
Penang Peach = Som Garasin, Som Kalasin (I have never heard of the name.. Bean Yai or Samsou)
Jack's Purple = Muang Jack (in Thai) (but it is not Purple Queen for sure)
Siam Red (in English) = Daeng Sayam (in Thai)
Singapore White = Khao Puang
Slaughter Pink is not the same as Chompoo Nut (but 99.99% of the Thais say they are the same)
Thai Mermaid Gem = Daeng Mang Mee (not many Thais use this name)
Daeng Udon (most Thais use this name) but some call Thailand Red (in English)
Som Raya (most Thais use this name) = Firestorm
Thai Tornado (is a Thai seedling #4606) is not JL Tornado
Thanks so much for this information, Kukiat! I will change the list above to reflect this. Thanks for your help!
Kukiat,
Thanks so much for the information. I always suspected Som Raya and Firestorm were the same plumeria. Hearing it from you who live in Thailand and grow these plumies is good enough for me. Som Garisin and Penang Peach--I guessed this about 2 years ago and see I was correct here as well. Penang Peach also may go by the name Karraslip Gold at the Chatuchak Market, which is where I got mine. It bloomed and guess what? Penang Peach! :) Of course, my grafted "Purple #1" also bloomed and turned out to be Chompoo Puang Roi --don't know if I spelled this right, but I believe the US name for it is 'Dwarf Watermelon'--according to one source. I have attached a picture. The flowers are quite small- about 2-2.5 inches and make big clusters. Anyway, this is why I tell people not to buy anything at the Chatuchak that isn't blooming. A friend picked these two plants up for me in BKK while on vacation there and they are not what they are supposed to be. I only hope my Muang Jack will bloom correctly! LOL The Chompoo Puang Roi is pretty though, and I will be keeping her for sure---she'd just not what I had paid for! LOL
Brad
This message was edited Jan 9, 2007 6:04 PM
Brad,
Purple #1 is Siam Mauve
Chompoo Phoung Roi is probably Dwarf Watermelon
Muang Phoung Roi is very similar to Chompoo Phoung Roi but it is purple in stead of pink (Chompoo means pink while Muang means purple)
You are right about Chatuchak. Mislabeling is one thing and Virus is another thing to be worried about.
Sawadee Kukiat,
I was wondering and stumbling around ebay when i found this seller..
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Pack-of-5-RARE-Siam-Mauve-frangipani-seeds_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQitemZ290051345388
Do they have your permission for pic and do they have your seeds is the question ;=O
I was looking at ebay because i found someone using my pics..
I just thought you might want to know if someone was using your wonderful pics without your permission..
Lopaka
I know the feeling Robert! I caught two people in the last three months trying to use my pics without even asking me. I didn't even know these people is what was even more disturbing--never talked to them once. I have started putting the name of my business on all my new pics as a result--somethign I hate doing, but that's the way it is.
Thanks for catching that, Robert. We should report them and have their auction pulled, but I see that it is over now. Kukiat usually has his copyright on his pics, but I guess some unscrupulous sellers can crop it off.
Brad, sorry about the mislabeling problems. I hate it when that happens. I know sometimes it is unavoidable, but it is such a let-down when you were expecting something else. That Siam Mauve in particular is stunning.
Here is Kukiat's picture. I put that copyright there, and you can see that they cropped it right off. I should have made it higher. Does someone have a eBay link for reporting this?
This message was edited Jan 12, 2007 2:19 PM
I think I found the link for reporting it: http://cgi1.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?MfcISAPICommand=InlineSelfHelpWebform&wftype=2021&rcode=BN%25P10198&subject=Copyright%20Basics&bcrumb=+Home+%3E+Help+Topics+%3E%A0Rules+and+Policies%A0%3E%A0Rules+about+Intellectual+Property%A0%3E%A0Copyright+Basics&instruction=&expirationDate=
Yeah that sucks Brad if i see any of your pics i will let you know buddy..
Hows the new place coming along btw?
Got anymore pics of the place?
Please keep us inform i personally like to read updates..
:)
Clare did you tell doc yet?
Robert, thanks for the link and letting me know this. I do not know who the seller is. This person did not have my permission and the seeds were not from me.
My Siam Mauve has nerver set seeds for me. One of my Thai friend just told me that this same person also used other pictures of mine. He (or she) had the seeds of Vishanu Gold for sale and used my picture for the sale. I have several Vishanu Gold plants but they have never set seeds. Like Scott Pratt, Vishanu Gold hardly set seeds. I have never heard any Vishanu Gold set seeds! Robert, I really appreciate this. Kop Khun Krab (=Thank You in Thai)
The same picture of Siam Mauve is not only used by this seller but also by a few others as seen in Thai websites. I have nothing to do with their business at all.
Robert, Brad and Clare...Thanks for the support!
I reported them, Kukiat, and hopefully, they will be warned not to do that again.
Hi Robert,
Getting settled, slowly. I do have a few pics I can email you when I resize them. I need to get the new greenhouse put together (48 feet long X 20 ft wideX 11 ft tall) and am praying for no more cold weather until then. The plumies are all stuck here and there. I am attaching one pic of just a few of my babies. I can't wait for spring!
Thanks for watching out for my pics! I think it a good thing that we all are continuously looking at what's out there. it nice to watch out for one another. I too will have my eyes peeled for suspicious activity.
Brad, they look great! Wow! Is that a cute little bunny rabbit in the pot? Now that is what I call a serious greenhouse. I can only dream about having one that size. Awesome. Is that a treadmill? Mine looks like that right now! Ha! Brad, NC is flowering again inside the house, and it is so pretty.
Lol Brad don't know how you do it bud..
I wish i had the room to build a greenhouse that big not that i need to use one that big :)
That pic is a good example of a singapore and how she keeps her leaves compare to the others..
I don't bring my DS in my GH because they attract aphids every time they flower it seems..
Robert--that plant you saw is actually a wild form of plumeria obtusa. Luc said is was the most pure form he'd seen since the Yucatan. It never gets rust--totally immune! The flowers are about 1 inch and smell great like its bigger cousin.
Hehe thanks brad i was not sure what it was to be honest because the leaves look narrowed compare to the Sing..
It was kind of hard to tell from pic so i guess it was sing ... lol that's what i get for guessing..
I see the cold air and/or low light is makeing her yellow on several leaves in different locations of the plant..
My sing's do the same thing when it gets cold or when i get some overspray on her leaves from one of my pesticides..
Keep us up to date bud if you can i like to see more pics of the whole property when you got time..
Is your phone number the same or did it change i wasn't sure if i should erase your number from my cell phone or update it..
..not important i just thought of it now as i was writing this post.
:)
Speaking of greenhouse's what kind of setup will you use lights or natural lighting?
I can not believe how fast my thai varieites and other rare plumies are growing under my lighting system..
I have been pumping some very advance nutrients into them and i feel i am cheating in the plumie world..
I give the hydroponics guys plants for their wives and they give me new samples of very very expensive stuff and say here try this and let us know the results..
This stuff is cutting edge and all i can say is wow where has this stuff been all these years growing plumies..
I can honestly say that i can root a plumie 4 times faster then leaving it outside in the middle of summer..
Like i said all these years of working hard and trying different methods and products my results are constant now and getting my 8 month seedlings to flower was no freak of nature but as a result of trial and error of many expensive products and very good timing when to use each one during the growth cycle..
Under my new lighting system (which i can't wait to see my electric bill) it magnifies my labor by 400%-500%.
Depending on what my light bill will be i might decide to shatter the 8 month time since it was not achieved by any man-made lighting during that time..
:)
