A note on PH levels!!

Here is a copy of a post i did for another forum thought it might help some of you!!
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What causes the yellowing on plumie leaves?

Three things that make the leaves yellow on a plumie..
1) Fertilizers and/or chemicals
2) Cold weather
3) Low light conditions
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How important is the PH levels and do any of you check it?

I always check my PH levels and i am so serious about it that my PH meter alone cost $150 dollars.
I use many nutrients from House and Garden and most of the time i don't need to adjust the ph because they are the best in hydro world for nutrients but also cost alot of money to use.
http://www.house-garden.nl/
or
http://www.humboldtwholesale.com/products/house_garden.php

According to my charts from them it states:
If you use coconut for a medium then the ph level should be between 5.5-6.2 (optimal 5.8)
If you use soil like most peeps then the ph level should be between 6.5-7.0 (optimal 6.8)

A note tho on ph levels..
Any ph level above 7.0 and phosphorus becomes mostly ineffective which is the nutrient plumies love the best..

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Don't know how i forgot this but water temp also plays a big part in PH levels..
It just rain 30 mins ago so i decided to take this shot of a reading of fresh rain water on a cool night.
From the pic you can see the ph level of this rainfall is 7.4 based on a water temp of 73.1 degrees.

http://img247.imageshack.us/img247/9193/200701020130sf4.jpg

A good example why water temp plays a big part in our nutrients mixture one just has to read the label on the product "Spray and Grow" which stats to mix the nutrient with warm water otherwise you will get what looks like a big oil slick on top of the water.
My reading of 7.4 is what we call our Base and our goal after we mix in our nutrients is to get somewhere between 6.0 - 6.8.
You must be aware of what products you are using and how it will effect the PH levels after you mix them all together. I will say that most ferts that are heavy in Phosphorus (high middle number on label) will drive down the ph levels in the 3.0-3.9 area so please use caution.This is one of the main reasons why alot of growers burn their plants and say that fert stinks and i will never use it again.
Most ferts you buy in your local stores have chemicals in them to make them last longer aka long shelf life so they can stock them on the shelves longer.
It is these chemicals also that wreck havoc on your ph levels.
This is the number one reason why i turn to hydro products a few years ago because most of their products are only good for 1 year after use. This is because they have no chemicals in them to give them longer shelf life and this is the reason why when you use them the ph level tend to stay the same.
The hydro products are much better for your plants because they are already process for your plant to use.
We grow in soil (dirt) so the average ferts from our stores are made for the dirt and most of the time the nitrogen use in these ferts takes 2-3 weeks to breakdown in the soil and become available for the plant to use. Will you water your plants again in that 2-3 week span? I say yes you will and since your plant is in a pot what did you just do by watering the plant again using just water? You basically leech or semi leech the soil meaning you just wash away those nutrients not use yet by your plant. To top it off if you use a water source from your tap most likely it will have a very high ph level (above 7.0) and now you also cause nutrient lockout.
Will our plants grow even after all this abuse? Yes this is why plumies are so great..
Will your plumies grow as fast and flower most of the season or will your seedlings flower in the first year or second year or take 5+ years to flower?
This is the difference between having great healthy plumies or just having average looking plumies with average looking flowers.
The next time you buy a plumie and it's one of those hard to root or hard to grow hybrids you better ask yourself which method of growing should i use because this could be the fine line between failure and success!

Hope this helps!
Lopaka

Wonderful post, Robert! I wish we could include this link in the FAQ sticky thread. Thanks so much for posting this. I think I paid around $100 for my PH meter, and I'm embarassed to say that I've never used it. Shame on me! Now, where did I put it? LOL!

Okay, I just found mine and have to figure out how to use it. I stuck it in the soil, but everything is registering 7.0. It is a Kelway Ph and Moisture meter. This is the one that I have: http://rosemania.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/product86.html

This message was edited Jan 3, 2007 1:54 PM

Excellet information .. Have much to learn. Thanks for sharing. Rosa

I sent a dmail to Terry yesterday to ask if I can edit the FAQ Sticky Thread and include this link. I'm going to compact the information in the Sticky Thread, if I can, to make it a little less overwhelming.

Very interesting and informative. It never crossed my mind to measure PH.

You are all welcome!!
:)

Clare fancy device there but i think you should concentrate on the nutrient ph level before it goes into the soil because by then it is too late.
With that said i could use one of those for my yard..
You can buy a simple poolkit and use that for testing the ph of the nutrients :)

Robert, dear, I'm confused. My device measures the ph in the soil on the top line. I just stick it in and wait a few minutes and it registers from 3.5 to 8.0. on the top and moisture level on the bottom. I just got some new bales of soil that I'll test. I use Sunshine Mix #4. Do I need to be testing something else?

Clare my post is for the nutrients people use to put/feed their plumies..
I see what you mean you are testing the soil itself that comes from a bag from your local store?
That is fine but as time goes by the ph in that soil changes due to rain,nutrients,burn off,etc...
Since the ph in a potted plant can change overnight by us it is very important for us to test what we put in it..
If we keep our ph at a certain level then the soil ph will stay at or near that ph and this is important for the bio
makeup of the soil to flourish and help the plant convert our nutrients to food..

Gosh, I learn something new everyday here. It makes sense as the soilless mixes do breakdown so quickly (at least in the hot climates like the southeast) it stands to reason the nutrients and pH would be altered and should be monitored.

Now, how in the world am I going to smuggle an expensive meter in? Think I can I pull off a "oh, this little thing, it has been in the back of the closet forever" ?????

Hi Robert! Thanks for explaining it. I did plunge it into a couple of potted plants, but I didn't want to break roots so I didn't test many. I thought it might be interesting to test the soil that I buy from the Farm Supply Place that I use when it comes right out of the bag and then a recently potted plant and then an older plant, etc. And I will for sure use it this summer before and after I fertilize. Thanks so much for this helpful info.

LOL, Alice. My husband saw the ph meter sitting on the counter and said, "Aha! I see you purchased something new and expensive-looking!" And I replied, "No, honey. I bought that about a year ago and just haven't used it until now." LOL! It's true too. That thing has been sitting in a drawer, and I forgot all about it.

:-)))))))

One more thing that is very important and why the ph should be tested on your nutrients first and the soil second..
If you over fert or made your own brand of mojo juice to feed your plumies and you had the ph too high or too low..
You will burn or cause toxicity to the plumie long before you see the results in a soil test..
The soil test will tell you but after it is too late and as you all may know or not know,,the plumie can alter the ph in the soil too so watch and monitor what you put in the soil first and this will keep you out of trouble!
:)

Thanks, Robert! Very good points. I'm pretty lazy as feeding goes. I just use whatever I have on hand, but I do use different supplements just for fun. I use Miracle Grow about once a week or once every other week starting in the spring. Then, once in a while, I will use a supplement like Monty's Joy Juice or Response or Liquid Karma or Mycorrhizae. Here's a link to some products that I've tried: http://rosemania.com/shopsite_sc/store/html/page16.html So you are saying that I should mix up the supplement and fertilizer with water and then measure the ph before it goes into the soil; right? But if I go around to all my pots and get readings which are close to ideal then I can be sure that what I'm currently doing and using is working; right?

So when Spray n Grow says to add a pinch of baking soda until the solution turns a pale color we are adjusting the pH of our tap water?

Clare, after reading what Robert does for his plants I am sure I am more than a lazy feeder.

Hello,
Clare no to your question..
As i state the plumie can altered the ph in the soil with that being said this doesn't mean what you are feeding them is ok..
The plumie is very forgiven and can fool many growers into thinking what they are feeding them is correct..
What i wrote here Clare is for the new growers you already know what your doing :)
It is the soil aka the dirt that saves us from over fert and under fert..
In the hydro world it is not so forgiven any mistake and the plant dies within hours!!
ALWAYS check the ph before you feed the plumie :)

LOL, Robert! You give me much too much credit. I just have good weather and dumb luck:-) I'll be sure to check the ph before I feed again.

I wanted to add this information since this thread is linked to in the FAQ's Sticky Thread:

This is what Kukiat wrote on fertilizing:

"As for P and K, there is no need use a lot of P since most plants need it only little as compared to K. However, the P is also important for the growth of plants. Large quanity of P can be used to slow down the growth of the plants since it lowers the availability of N. Once the growth slow down, the plants accumulate food (in term of Carbohydrates) and increase the C/N ratio. (Note that C=Carbohydrate, N=Nitrogen.) This means that plants have lot of food and may be ready to bloom if the condition of the plant is right. In citrus, I have to lower the amount of water too (meaning lower the N since the N is the most water soluble one) in order to get the high C/N ratio. We are able to get our citrus trees to bloom at a specific time this way.

"However most P is generally fixed by clay particles and accumulated in the soil. Over a period of time, there will be too much P in the soil and make other elements like N and K less available for plants to absorb.

"I think it is important to note here that not all plants are the same. Their requirement for food elements also differs from plant to plant."

-Kukiat