Rutgers

Okay veggie friends, here is a question for each of you:

Has anyone tried heirloom rutgers maters? If so, would you pls share your experience? I have been haunting the forums for under 2 years and even though Brandywine has turned up as a favorite, I have personally seen that people have really liked the Rutgers. I'm gonna try it for 07, but would love to hear your experience.

Thanks!~

Howdy, lafke...

I've grown it quite a few times. I think you may like this one as it will really produce the fruit plus offers a good flavor. Very good as a slicer (love those sammiches!) as well as a great canner (which is what most people know it for; think it was grown for Campbells originally but will have to check records) and can even be used as a great sauce tomato. All purpose, eh?

Be prepared...being a determinate the fruit comes on pretty much at one given time. After the main flush the plant tends to peter out. However, this can be taken care of by taking some suckers, rooting them, and setting them out for a later crop.

If you've ever grown Marglobe and liked it then no doubt you'll like Rutger's.

Shoe.

Hi Lafke:

I concur with everything Shoe said. Being a relative newbie, I was surprised how easy they were to grow and how profilic they were. They were a favorite at maret this year and we have reserved plenty of space for them this year.

BB

laf,
shoe's memory is right on. I recall reading an article some years ago that stated that Rutgers (back in the 1940's I believe) was the most commonly grown commercial tomato in the US, accounting for 90% of the commercial tomato crop for processing here, as well as for export.

Great info Shoe and you two, thank you. I'll have to do an add on order to Sandhill. I think I was their first customer for 07 since I sent in my order early December!!!

It's not an heirlloom, but one of the better commercial cultivars. Dominated the market well into the 50's. Primarily a canner, use to grow them for the canneries when there were local canneries. Semi-determinate and will grow most places. They don't have the disease resistance of later introductions, so they can have a rough time with infested soil or TSW. It is still the standard by which round reds are judged for taste and appearance.

Hey Farmerdill:

The catalogs I've looked at all listed them as an heirloom. This topic came up on another thread, i think it was about white tomatoes.

When can I be sure that a variety being listed as an heirloom is actually one?

BB

BTW Happy New Year to all of you!

"heirloom" has become such a popular buzz word that it is difficult to say. Some companies apply it indiscrimately to all Open pollinated cultivars. If I remember correctly, some one else defined it as a variety more than 60 years old. Of course that would rule out most of todays "heirlooms" most of which were "discovered/introduced post 1960 and many in the last 10 years. You are probably safe with cultivars that were never marketed commercially. Rutgers has not been off the market since it was introduced and while it is no longer grown by the pros is still widely available. Technically "heirloom" means something that is valued by a family and passed on from generation to generation. Personally, I rule out all cultivars that were introduced by commercial companies, Burpee, Henderson, Burgess, Woods etc and those that were released by the USDA or university breeding programs.

Good question for Farmerdill. Seems like a lot of sellers tend to use the term 'heirloom variety' pretty loosely. There's a wholesaler out west who will sell you 1 ounce of Rutgers seeds for $3.98 and there are about 10,000 seeds per ounce. You can even buy the seeds by the pound. Doesn't sound much like an heirloom, does it.

No It doesn't BL.

I mean it is a good tomato but an heirloom is an heirloom and if I represent that to customers, I'd like it to be true.

Boy, this stuff is tough sometimes!

Yep, the term has really gotten out of hand when it became the "fad" of the catalogs. B-boy, it's pretty much become accepted in the tomato kingdom by many heirloomist to look at the tomatoes by heirloom category, i.e., commercial heirloom, family heirloom, and some include 'created heirloom'. (Carolyn mentions in her book that she refers to some as Mystery heirlooms.)

In your case, selling your heirlooms at the mkt, you can be safe referring to Rutgers as a commercial heirloom...it's paid its dues by being around longer than the given time period (which is actually 50 years, not 60) and even though it was purposefully bred it became quickly stabilized and is OP.

Then there is another avenue to deal with also! (Wouldn't ya know!?) There is Rutgers, Rutgers Select, Rutgers Improved now floating around out there, so it seems you have choices to make, eh?

Shoe.

Oye Vay

Thanks Shoe!

Rutgers is my FIL's fave mater and he's been gardening for over 60 yrs. I always try to have a few each year. I love them and they are always reliable in our brutal heat.

The plants are pretty easy to find around here in the spring- at the big box stores and at most greenhouses and nurseries.

yeah, sure, OK,
All that ca-ca is great. But what really defines an heirloom veggie? Is it defined by a 50 year or a 60 year heritage? Is it more logically defined by it's gradual disappearance from the pages of most of the major seed hustlers? Is it defined by the seed hustlers themselves? Is it a variety that nobody can find unless they search the pages of SeedSavers?
What about a variety that has been grown and perpetuated, commercially, for half a century, and is still being grown commercially today?
Well, that's the fact about the Rutgers. It ain't no heirloom. Nobody is hoarding the seeds of this dying variety. It's not dying. And there's no legitimate reason to characterize it as an heirloom. If anybody thinks that this poor tomato veggie's days are numbered, just let me know. I will put you in touch with a commercial supplier who will sell you 160,000 seeds (that's a pound) for 40 bucks.
You got 40 acres and a mule, you'll be in business. The Rutgers tomato is as much a standard today as it was 40 years ago. And don't swallow anybody's claim that they are trying to sell you an heirloom.

blmlb,
I'm sorry but to whom is your post directed? I am asking b/c yours is right after mine and the tone has me a bit puzzled.
lafko06 asked for our opinions on this tomato and some of us who have grown it responded. I think it has already been pointed out- rather well in fact- that in a lot of folks' opinion, it is not really a true heirloom and no one has suggested it is rare or dying out. Notice that I commented on how I can find the plants for sale every spring- by the tons.

If I misunderstood your post, I sincerely apologize in advance.

oh no berry, i'm sry, would u possibly mind please re-reading the post? Cus I am sure blm is RE-bringing up a question in many or our minds!!!!! My post has gone off in different directions, but blm is questioning whether Rutgers is actually an heirloom and ALSO questioning the different definitions of "Heirloom". I can not speak directly on the original Rutgers source, but apparently there are at least 3 different types of Rutgers and depending on the source, some call it heirloom and then, there are some who question what "heirloom" defines. We are in a conundrum where there is not a reliable source to answer this question so that we all agree on the definition ha ha ha. The joke is on all of us!!!! You are so right on how in the Spring this plant is available almost to the point of being as available as a dandelion lol, but for us new folks who rely on you knowlegdable folks, ANY and ALL info is really meaningful to our learning and thank you all... cus we will be back and Back and BAck and BACk and BACK with more questions!!!!! Thank you to all the great friends in this forum!!!

berrygirl, no need to apologize for anything. The post by bl wasn't directed to you, no doubt about it.

Methinks blmlb is witnessing (and feeling/thinking) what quite a few of us have gone thru over the past umpteen years, and it can sure be frustrating sometimes. Ugh! And double-ugh!

However, you can pretty much read my latest view (and many others) in the first paragraph of my last post. And that refers to basically "tomatoes", not an overall description of "heirloom" since many other items (treasure chests, furniture, photographs/tintypes, for example) will have an "heirloom definition" much different.

Personally, just like some of us have had to give up the term "organic" and replace it with another word (even tho the same growing technique is involved) I wish there were another term altogether for veggie "heirlooms".

It is very much agreed upon though that tomato heirlooms are not determined to be so by their lack of availability or because they are "rare", especially with the recent (last 15 yrs or so). What was once 'rare' is now quite often available due to this interest in heirlooms. And yes, the "seed hustlers" have certainly gotten onto the bandwagon, pushing many varieties that are NOT true heirlooms (and there we go, once again, back to what is "true heirloom").

"Well, that's the fact about the Rutgers. It ain't no heirloom. Nobody is hoarding the seeds of this dying variety. It's not dying. And there's no legitimate reason to characterize it as an heirloom."

True, no one is hoarding seed, and that's what the heirloom revival is about, keeping older varieties in existence. But, as said before, a dying breed or someone preserving seed has nothing to do with something being considered an heirloom.

Rutgers goes back many decades and by doing so, it is older than the suggested time frame given (50 years) and is considered a "commercial heirloom". Because something has become commercial has no bearing on it all of a sudden not being an heirloom. After all, even the heirloom tomatoes that are available now a days are now available commercially; the key factor is learning which ones qualify, and said qualifying, again, is often determined by the definitions stated above. (And yes, I'm sure we'll all have some sort of disagreement on how to pin down the proper definition. Fortunately, the ones given, at this point in time, work for many folks as a guide.)

"The Rutgers tomato is as much a standard today as it was 40 years ago." Yep, I agree with you on that! However, because an older variety is still highly available doesn't negate it being considered an heirloom; again, it has nothing to do with its availability. I guess if we think about it, "Brandywine" dates way back before Rutgers but is also considered highly available and is a standard in many peoples gardens.

Am hoping this is not upsetting to you, blmlb, but if so, trust me, working with all the tags, labels, history over that past years can sure be frustrating...I sure do admit to that!

B-boy, if you are in a quandary as to what to tell your customers, just tell them some of the facts and info in this thread, that it dates back to the early 1920's, that's it's parents are Marglobe and, and, I think JT or JTR (again straining my brain but guess I could google it), and that's it's a tasty mater!

Shoe.

And just to add to the confusion, I am now seeing seeds advertised as "heirloom type". HA!

Thanks everyone for a very lively and informative thread.

I am a heirloom newbie and I am still learning the lingo and history of heirloom production. Like Berrygirl, I was always amazed that Home Depot and Lowes could carry flat upon flat of "heirloom" rutgers but, in many cases, not carrying another single heirloom variety that I am familiar with.

Shoe's explanation helps a lot and I will tuck it away in my gray matter while it's still working! LOL

BB