Hi: I've decided to stop resisting temptation and try a couple of plumerias (in pots) this spring. I know I'll need a greenhouse or have to bring them inside in winter, but I'd like to be able to leave them outside as long as possible, since I already have so many tender plants that have to come in. So my question is this: What (if any) varieties are the most "cold hardy"? Yep, I realize they're tropical plants, but are there any that could stay outside when nights are in the 40s for example? If this is addressed in the FAQ, I missed it.
2nd, and maybe an easier question, which white/yellow are your favorite for fragrance?
Many thanks.
Deb
This message was edited Dec 31, 2006 7:57 PM
Z8 Newbie: Before I purchase...
Hi Deb and welcome to the Plumie Forum! My plumies stay outside year 'round, and it definitely drops into the 40's at night. It got down to 35 here last night for most of the night. My plumies are dropping bottom leaves here and there in preparation for going dormant, but they won't go dormant because it doesn't get cold enough here and because I continue to water normally. My zone is considered sub-tropical, and I have attempted to raise the temp in the backyard area by creating microclimates. The aluminum siding on the house, the six-foot brick retaining wall, the gravel rocks, and all the cement and wood elements absorb heat during the day and release it at night.
In your zone, you would want to bring them in before your first frost date. Plumies can take very brief periods in the high 30's, but 32 and below will cause some damage if not death, depending upon the maturity of the tree and some other factors. There have been reports of plumeria trees surviving in Zone 9, but those are usually mature specimens which can take a little branch dieback and not succumb completely and which may have been slowly acclimated. Those trees are usually in the heart of a city as well, where there are warm microclimates at work and are often found growing between one or more concrete buildings which offer heat and protection to some degree.
There are many opinions about which are the toughest varieties, and there are no "cold hardy" plumies per se. Seedlings tend to have stronger root systems than rooted cuttings, and grafts are often cultivars grafted to seedlings. A similar question came up on another forum, and I'm going to paste the answer here. The quote is from a plumeria grower named Scott in Kansas City.
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"These are just suggestions from my experience. Mine are probably more applicable to cold-weather growers, but I have seen people in warm climates report similar.
Also I have mentioned how many years I have observed the plant:
After a while you can see how they react to stressors. Some react violently like the dark reds and Lurline, others like Slaughter Pink shrug it off.
Easy
(I have not yet had a major rot attack on any of these, many of these are big trees for me now in Kansas City-big meaning 10 years old.)
Slaughter Pink (number one bulletproof, easy bloomer, a must for beginners)
White Shell (first black tip this winter, otherwise super easy 10 years)
Samoan Fluff (not one black tip in 10 years)
ET Lemon Drop (stressed cutting rooted pretty easily, 3 years old now, blooming in winter)
Mardi Gras(new for me, easy rooter
King Kalakaua(white, new for me easy rooter)
Makanani(rainbow 4 years)
San Germaine-long stems but one of the best smelling( 5 years, white also)
Plastic Pink (everyone lists this as bulletproof, ugly growing habit though 10 years)
Amy (21 years old, great scent, easy rooter, yellow)
Dean Conklin(on the leggy side)
Lei Rainbow-i have lost a few before the one I have now (6 years)
Amarron's Curly White (new for me, easy rooter, blooming as a cutting)
Kimo (another easy one, 6 years, beautiful bloom)
Cerise (3 years, great red, low maintenance)
Bud's Sally(bulletproof, subjected to much abuse, 4 years)
Franscoise (good small grower 6 years)
Paula's Pink
JL Bridal White (6 years)
Kauka Wilder
Maui Beauty (6 years-super easy)
Guillot's Sunset-super easy
Bali Whirl-stingy bloomer (6 years)
Abigail (6 years)
Saigon Moon
Sherman/Polynesian White
Grove Farm (6 years)
Vera Cruz Rose-one of the best smelling ones
Penang Peach-a must for a beginner
Mary Nicholson-very tough, great bloomer
More moderate (again my opinion)
(meaning I have had at least one die back branch or rotted cutting)
Jeannie Moragne (long brancher, can get black tip if stressed, 6 years)
Dwarf Pink Singapore (6 years) this one is good until you get it too cold, then problems
Charlotte Ebert(I lost one cutting, but my second one now is a big tree, love it)
Aztec Gold(I have lost 3 of my 4 trees. When they get sick it is hard to bring them back)
Celadine (I have lost two, I have seen others rot but most say this is a great one)
Duke (10 years)
Mele Pa Bowman-tends to freak branch, freak stress
Moragne 93-red, good for a red, but can be temperamental(6 years)
Princess Ann Roselli-3 years-growing a little strange now, but ok
Most difficult (again my opinion)
(not as tolerant of cold weather. meaning I have had trouble rooting it and have seen others too)
Lurline(beautiful blooms, notorious otherwise)
Scott Pratt(dark red)
Hilo Beauty(a few have had no problems but many have, dark red)
Bill Moragne-can be hard to root for some
Dwarf Richard Criley
Mela Matson(tendency to die back when you cut a branch)
Dwarf white Singapore-black tips
Singapore(black tips too easily, must be babied outside tropics)
Katie Morange-another notorious non-rooter
White Petticoat-always wanting to die back on me"
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I don't have the same experience as Scott, but I'm in a totally different climate than he is. Typically, the white/yellow varieties are the toughest, and the reds are the most sensitive. Some also say that Singapore White is the most sensitive to cold, and it may be since it often gets Black Tip in cold, damp conditions.
In my opinion, the best white/yellows for fragrance are Samoan Fluff, Celadine, Singapore White, Pacific Pearl, and San Germaine. There is a fragrance chart in the FAQ's that was compiled from an opinion poll among plumie growers.
Clare: what a wonderful and comprehensive answer! I'm going to study it in more detail and start making my choices. Very excited! Thanks so much. :)
Deb
Deb, Last winter I let my plummies go dormant,took them out of their pots, etc. and it just took too long for them to come back in the spring. They never did bloom for me this past summer. This year I've decided to leave them outside in their pots and I have moved them into the garage those 2 cold nights we had. This present weather in the 70's is great for them. Although they have lost some of their bottom leaves the tops are still green and I suspect they will be ready to bloom next year. (they had better, LOL)
Ardesia: Will you let me know the outcome? This "winter" weather has really got me scratchin my head this year. We had that early freeze in Nov. when it got down in the teens here and I brought all my tropicals inside and mulched over the ones that are in ground. Now I don't know what to do with 'em. Elephant ears and bananas that are outside still "active". Cannas are putting up shoots. I may put all the potted plants back out on the porch and let them enjoy this weather - of course as soon as I do that, we'll get a cold spell! :) If this is going to be winter, I'm going to have to rethink my plans. We're havin' a sort of zone 9 winter here in zone 8.
Deb
Hey, guys! By the way, the new Arborday Zone map is out: http://www.arborday.org/media/zones.cfm The coldest months for me here is January and February.
Deb, I highly recommend Florida Colors Nursery if you are in the market to buy plumeria cuttings or grafts: http://www.floridacolors.com/ I see that they are re-designing their web site, and that is great news! They usually send out a Price List to all current customers after the first of the year, which I'll post here at Dave's when I receive it like I did last year. Here is last year's: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/571517/ Don't hesitate to call Carol at their toll free number and ask her for recommendations. She and Luc are super nice people, and I've purchased a bunch of plumerias from them and been extremely happy with the quality. Also, Brad's Buds and Blooms is a super great seller too, and he is a member here at Dave's and extremely trustworthy. Do be careful and wary of plumeria sellers that you do not know, especially on eBay, and ask here for a list of trusted eBay sellers before you buy on eBay. Unfortunately, there are many sellers of plumerias on eBay that are not selling what they are representing, and you could be disappointed at the very least.
Alice, your experience is the same as other plumeria growers are reporting. Many are finding that barerooting and storing plumeria plants causes a huge delay in flowering the next season; whereas, keeping the plumerias in their containers and watering occasionally helps the plants flower much sooner and adjust easier. I know people that store 300 or so plumerias in their containers in their garage or basement with lights during winter, and they find that the trees rebound more quickly than when they are barerooted and stored.
Clare: Thanks for the suggested sources. There are so many sellers out there - it was a bit overwhelming. I'll take a look at the ones you mentioned.
Deb
I second Clare's recommendations. Florida Colors and Brad's have good quality plants and they are good people to deal with.
Between the growth of existing plants and the plants that were added, I ran out of room in my greenhouse. My advice to anyone buying a greenhouse is to buy one bigger than you need. If you are a lover of plants, you will fill it up faster than you realize.
I solved my problem by triaging my plants. The ones that I could loose with the least amount of grief were gathered under an overhang by my greehouse. I covered them with Christmas lights and then covered them when the temperature dropped below the mid thirties with some old thermal blankets and palstic tarpaulins. I placed the lights close to the base so that they would not come in contact with the blankets. The lights gave off enough heat to protect them even when the temperatures dropped into the mid twenties a couple of nights. So far, so good.
This also works well, I think, because you can maintain air circulation arounfd the plants when they are not covered. Sometimes when I crowded my plants in the greenhouse, I lost some from rot even though I kept the temperature above freezing.
I got the idea from noticing that one year the plants in our front yard where we had strung out Christmas lights weathered the cold much better than other plants that were not surrounded by lights.
"Triaging my plants" LOL, I like that idea and haven't we all done that one time or another!
What does "triaging my plants" mean?
Mickey
Mickey, it's just a medical term which is cleverly applied to plants here. Here's the definition:
"Main Entry: tri·age
Pronunciation: trE-'äzh, 'trE-"
Function: noun
Etymology: French, sorting, sifting, from trier to sort, from Old French -- more at TRY
1 a : the sorting of and allocation of treatment to patients and especially battle and disaster victims according to a system of priorities designed to maximize the number of survivors b : the sorting of patients (as in an emergency room) according to the urgency of their need for care
2 : the assigning of priority order to projects on the basis of where funds and other resources can be best used, are most needed, or are most likely to achieve success"
In other words, the most valued cherished plants get a bed in the hospital while the less cherished or easily acquired plumies have to sleep outside in the rain...so to speak.
"In other words, the most valued cherished plants get a bed in the hospital while the less cherished or easily acquired plumies have to sleep outside in the rain...so to speak."
I could not have explained it better.