cyclamen question

I found some cyclamen seedlings in an outdoor planter at a public building. There is a blooming size florist cyclamen in the planter that I think must be the parent plant. I liberated several of the seedlings and brought them home with me. They are tiny, a single leaf each, thread thin petioles, and bulblets of 1/8 inch in length.

How should I care for them over the winter? I feel that they are going to need growing conditions all winter. Would a terrarium and a grow light provide sufficient humidity and light? How cold sensitive are the fully grown bulbs? At what size should I separate them and pot them in larger pots? Currently the clump is in a cut off styrofoam cup with drainage holes, that being what they came home in.

Beth

Beth
A terrarium could work, but some terrariums are too humid. I prefer leaving them in forgiving open-air.
For optimum growth: Use free-draining soilless mix (like two parts miracle grow potting soil and one part perlite) and supply bright, indirect light. when growth slows, give them a weakened fertilizer. They can reach blooming size in about eight months, my guess. Another guess would be that they are hardy to 25 degrees or so mature. In individual pots, give them a proportionately sized pot (which I would suggest), or put them all in one big community pot until they are each robust, dozen-leaved plants. Then put them in four inch pots.

I hope this helps,
K. James

I mistreated mine (failed to keep them moist); three months old:
(This is now a five inch plant I expect to see flowers on in spring)

picture

I have had some experience growing cyclamen (commercial hybrids and species). My experience is that benign neglect is the most successful growing method. Excess watering, humidty and fertilizer are the big killers. I have had commercial bulbs reseed themselves many times. Their parents are Cyclamen persicum.

Turtle, I think that if the seeds sprouted and grew outside keeping them in similar conditions to where you found them would continue their success.

My concern is over wintering them at this small size, both temp and keeping them moist without damping off. Community pot is probably the way to go for a while. The terrarium idea was as much to protect them from Cordelia, my two year old indoor cat as anything else. Cords loves to mess with anything green. I use the word mess advisedly because that is what she leaves in her wake. Flower arrangements, potted plants, and even artificial Christmas trees end up scattered on the carpet.

Beth

Turtle you did state the cyclamen was a 'florist' cyclamen, these are generally used for autumn bedding and are not usually hardy, although I have grown some from seed the hard, neglected way as dale suggests, that will make for a much hardier cyclamen. I have a red one which has been in a cold greenhouse from it's second winter and it has survived -9C, it's coming into flower now but to get good flowering I would have to keep it somewhere a little warmer for the winter and feed it. I doubt if it would live if I put it in the ground, it is kept fairly dry over winter in it's pot.

I have 4 shallow terracotta pots of young plants I grew from seed off different florists cyclamens, the mini types which are hybrids mostly from C. persica as dales says. They were grown inside for a start, last winter I left them on the greenhouse floor and they survived the long cold winter, repotted them this year. They are looking good, at the moment I have them in a shady place on the garage floor but some light gets to them from a south facing window.

They would reseed easily in mild areas, you haven't put your zone but I think you would get heavy frosts in GA? These are said to be hardy to 2C only, but as I have shown if you grow them yourself 'hard' they can be hardy if kept dryish and free draining. This is not to say they haven't had good food, they are in gritty fertile soil and leaf mould, which gives them a natural diet and health with it and thus the ability to survive. The artificial feeding programme will make them soft, but if you wanted to keep them inside they would probably flower better.

The C. coum which are hardy flower well in the ground without any extra food, mine are under a deciduous tree amongst very free draining soil and leaf compost. They have self set and it doesn't matter if the bulb is tiny, they germinate over winter in mild spells and just sit there on the surface with a tiny root anchoring it, while they are not getting waterlogged they are happy.

Thought I would add that K. is right with the flowering period, I have had them flower inside when still young around a year from germination, kept in a cooler room in an east facing window. You mostly find some grow much larger than others and will completely take over the space, a smaller community pot for a start is a good idea until they fill the space, one reason being that the roots will fill it and take up excess water and this will keep them from rotting. Once they are pushing and shoving that is the time to move them, I prefer to do this late summer when they are thinking of coming into growth again.

Now I have these wonderful looking plants in the terracotta pots I'm wondering where I should put them to get the most from them, if I bring them inside they take too much space, outside they might suffer, they will probably just stay where they are! The red one on it's own managed to flower slowly in very cold weather last winter in the greenhouse.

The best time for some fun from them seems to be when they have reached their first flowering period in the second autumn/winter, the pots you grew them in are full of baby plants and quite a few flowers, it's a little thrill to get that. The problem comes when you have to move them all and don't know where to put them! If you have vine weevil keep a watch for plants drooping leaves, the grubs love cyclamen bulbs and can kill them very quickly. I found some on mine I had on the greenhouse floor when I repotted them this year, I washed the bulbs well and most were not too damaged and survived.

I don't seem to have the problem with vine weevil with ground grown bulbs, probably because predators can get them.

Thanks to all for the responses. I really appreciate the hardy cyclamen, if not the prices they command. Even the over blown large florists plants appeal to me.

The parent plant appeared to be the larger florist type, not the newer to the market mini form.

If I did the conversion correctly, our lowest winter temps are around -12 C. We do get a good bit of rain during the winter. I may try growing in a community pot out of doors and bringing them into the unheated garage for the coldest days and nights or the long periods of winter rain. If they survive this winter, I will bed them out and hope for the best. There is no huge emotional investment at this point, just an educational opportunity.

A cool greenhouse is on my wish list, but chances of that died in this year when my school district froze all supply funding in September. I am purchasing so many art supplies for my 730 students that all of my disposable income is gone. Maybe by next winter...

Beth

I like to use the mini cyclamen as a bedding plant.

That is lovely. Do you leave them in the ground year round?

They are winter annuals here, they rot in the summer heat and humidity. They grow very well in the winter cool season and flower almost constantly. They grow to a good size.

Here is a photo from this morning

Very nice, I like the way you played off the red violet and yellow green complementary color scheme.

I think I will keep my south GA zone 8 temp and humidity. Both are quite high enough, thank you.

Beth

I just piced up this stunning cyclamen at a local florist. I've never seen one with such silver leaves and the picotee flower is an added bonus. They bloom nearly year-round here as our summers are cool.

One of mine has leaves like that Todd (it would, wouldn't it!), beautiful flowers on yours, they complement the leaves well.

I got mine quite a few years ago now, there was just the one and such a lovely combination, flowers a bright pink-purple. The corm grew huge, leaves reall large too, then the vine weevil killed it. I noticed the leaves drooping but too late, and it was inside but those things I have found inside when winter comes, and they lay their eggs before you get them. I've nearly eradicated them just by being vigilant but some always survive. I bought another not long ago with good leaves and interesting flowers but it rotted!

Anyway, I did get seed from the silver leaf one and they are now quite mature, on the floor of the garage and just making buds. I will have to take a pic.

Root weevils are a nuisance here as well...they really go after potted primula (of course Cyclamen are in the Primrose family). So far, the weevils have left my cyclamen alone. This fall the weevils attacked all my Sempervivums! I was floored when the semps blew away in a wind storm because they had no roots left!

They like Heucheras too, I have dug out loads from the ground, the plants grow again but until you pull a crown and it comes off you don't know. I had some eating a rhododendron under the oak tree, I went out very late at night and got them (I think), I think I have more predators around now too, frogs and toads might eat them and I have lots of them now.

I had two really nice azaleas in the same place, Hino Crimson and Madame van Hecke which was smothered in flowers. I looked out the window one windy day to see one blowing across the garden, the other was hanging by a thread! The stems looked chewed and black on the outside and very dry, I thought at the time it was because they had been grown in peat, many plants give up from that, but it was possibly vine weevils, or both. Sedum in pots I grew from cuttings got eaten too, fuchsias are a favourite although they tend to like some varieties more than others.

Now I check all the fuchsias from spring, the tug test to see if they are loose. I think I only found 2 that hatched this year, the tell tale sign is irregularly chewed new leaves.

I took this pot out of the garage to take a pic, it's now outside but will be better in the greenhouse with some protection. They seem to flower best in a cool room at about 16C, there are two large corms and some smaller ones, grown 5 years ago, I only transplanted them this year. Some germinated in later years, others just get pushed out and a couple take over but they should be the toughest. They have lots of flowers making so I should find somewhere inside to enjoy them after all this! The leaves are big and stems lanky when the corms get bigger, not grown under controlled conditions.

A close up of the really silvery new leaf, it reflected the flash. Note the crimped edges.

Oh wallaby1, that is gorgeous and the crimped edge is superb!!!

I love plants with variegated foliage and the patterns in Cyclamen are always interesting.

Thanks for sharing that one.

It's amazing they should have such a solid silvering, I wonder which parentage it gets it from. I think Todd's has crimped edges too, the new leaf on his looks very similar.

If you see a good one grab it!

What gorgeous Cyclamens! Outstanding colors and beautiful designs on lovely crimped leaves. Two excellent reasons for growing these beauties! Plus, depending on the varieties, some are hardy outdoors and the ones that are not hardy can be grown inside in containers. It's a 'win-win' situation either way!

I'm actually going to try wintersowing some hardy Cyclamen seeds this year! Wish me luck!!

Oops, I forgot to add the most important part. Here's a link to the Cyclamen Society's webpage and how to grow these beauties. http://www.cyclamen.org/cultiv_set.html

This message was edited Dec 9, 2006 1:51 PM

Shirley, that will keep us busy for a while, thanks! I notice it mentioned hardiness in Southern England, there's a '.org' site for everything isn't there! If you want the info, just put in the name and a '.org' after it!

I sowed my hardy pewter leaf cyclamen coum in late September or thereabouts, I put them under a window in the garage with a cover over to keep them dark and moist, they were nearly on the surface. I now have loads of tiny corms with a leaf stalk and tiny root, there was even a twin, two from the same seed.

Robert, Neal, Kenton, are yours growing yet?

wallaby1: I'm sorry, I'm not following you. Were you not able to open this link? http://www.cyclamen.org/indexCS.html

Yes I was able to Shirley, sorry, it was my observation that almost any plant seems to have a website with ".org" after the plant name. I often think if I want information then that is what I should do, try the name, with a .org after it. I suppose that was just as confusing!

Wallaby, I think yours is a little more silvery than mine, but otherwise very similar. One of my semi-miniature florist types has been blooming continuously for nearly 2 years with no rest period. It is looking a little tired now but is about to send up another flush of leaves and flowers. My pewter-leaf coums should be opened next month and libanoticum is showing buds.

I sowed seeds from my everblooming cyclamen last August (a seed pod had formed without my knowledge). I now have 48 seedlings, each with 2 leaves. I also sowed seeds of the hardy C. purpurascens in August. I was about to give up hope but I had 3 seedlings pop up about a week ago. They can be slow.

From a seed exchange I got seeds of coum and in the pot sprouted coums (both silver leaf and green), hederifoliums and what looks like intaminatum! Great fun!

Outside, I only grow hederifolium and purpurascens. The others are kept in a cool greenhouse that drops to about 5 C in winter.

The seed of house types are best sown straight away, 48 seedlings will give you a lot of work! There has to be some advantages to cold climates but that one has done extrememly well! I find they don't flower over well here after their first flush when purchased, I'm not going to say it's too warm here!

I have almost given up on other types, I bought a C cyprium and libanoticum and both rotted this year. I really did want more species but unless I'm prepared to grow them from seed they are an expensive risk.

I have my coums in the ground, but under the horse chestnut tree in a raised bed and they do very well, I guess you've seen them! The pewter leaf coums are still in pots in the cold greenhouse, but I think they could easily go outside after 7+ years!

I'm surprised that C purpurascens is hardy for you and not coum, purpurascens is supposed to be the more tender one here. I have one small seedling of C. persica (of 6 seeds) which I got free with an order, they are very expensive seed to buy, and won't have been fresh but more may germinate this winter, if not I need to look after the one!

Coum is hardy but looses its flowers. They send up the buds in November-December and want to flower in Feb-March but we are still frozen well into April and that is too much for them...they abort the blooms. Purpurascens flowers in August so only overwinters as leaves and does not seem to have any problems. I put boughs over all the outside cyclamen so the cold winds don't dessicate the evergreen foliage.

My orginal intaminatum rotted this summer but dropped some seeds beforehand so I now have about 8 seedlings. So far my other species (graecum, libanoticum, pseudibericum and repandum) are doing OK in their pots. Graecum has yet to flower however..I don't think it can 'bake' enough in my climate to initiate buds. The foliage is pretty enough to keep it as a pot plant and hopefully one of these years it will flower.

I sowed rohlfsianum last year and got one seedling...it was dormant all summer and presently has a single leaf...seems a bit weak but I love this one for its maple-like leaves, so different from the other cyclamen.

wallaby1: I'm glad the Cyclamen Society's website worked for you. It really is legitimate and not bogus. Sorry for the confusion!

Todd_Boland: It sounds like you have sowing & growing Cyclamen down to a fine science! I especially love the silvery leafed ones and the delicate patterns that decorate the foliage.

I'm going to try and grow the hardy varieties outdoors and as I mentioned earlier, I'll be wintersowing them.

Shirley, the trick is to keep them growing as long as possible before dormancy sets in. Thats why I like late summer sowing as they often grow for nearly a year before going dormant. In you area, place them outside once the weather settles. Keep them cool and moist as long as possible but in your summers, they will probably go dormant once June-July rolls around.

Todd: The key is to first get them to germinate! Since I'm wintersowing them outside, will they just sit in the container until the temperatures warm up? I don't want the seeds to rot.

I just went to the Cyclamen Society's website and found the answer, "there is no benefit to be gained from stratification - in some species, this would be fatal". Good thing that I checked before I sowed the seeds outdoors! I'll grow them under lights in my basement instead!

Shirley, there is a sort of a 'but' with that. I tried C. coum in pots under cover in a greenhouse when they first produced seeds. Some germinated the first year, some 2nd year, I kept them in a shady spot but ended up with very few. The last 2 years seeds I have ignored, let them set themselves, and they have made quite a few baby plants. There was probably more seed, but they do seem to like being in the free draining spot and the autumn leaves sitting on them for a short spell I think gives them the right conditions to germinate.

I would say to sow outside now is too late, but I would sow them inside in a cool place (16C is good for most), in a free draining leafy compost if you have it, and sow very near the surface. Cyclamen seed should be fresh in order to germinate well. It can help to place a plastic bag over the pot and place it in a dark place, that helps germination and I guess replicates the leaves on top of the seeds. When they start to germinate move to a window (east is good) or lighter place or they will get too drawn up, and leave the bag over the pot but not so it sweats. If it's in a cool place it shouldn't sweat, and you shouldn't need to water. It's best to have it just moist so the roots have to seek water.

Thanks Wallaby. I'll try to find the coolest spot in the basement for them. I will cover the surface sown seeds with a plastic bag to keep them slightly moist as you said. I hope they will like germinating in a dark cool closet. If & when I get any germination, I'll be sure to post pictures of the seedlings.

Here is how I do it...slightly different from Wallaby.

1.Unless fresh, soak the seeds in water for 3 days, changing the water daily.
2. To avoid damping off, I use promix. I sow the seeds and cover them with 1/4 inch soil. Alternatively, surface sow but place a 1/4 inch grit over them.
3. Temps much above 15 C impede germination....10-15 C (50-60 F) is ideal. My hederifoliums sprout like weeds outdoors through September-October when our temps start to cool down.
4. The plastic bag scenario is good although I have never needed it....just make sure the soil stays moist; however, if your watering is inconsistent, then use the bag...dry soil after the fact will kill Cyclamen
5. Be patient! Many take 2 months or more to germinate...some years as Wallaby can attest. The fresher the seed, the better germination you will get. When possible, I sow mine as soon as the pods break open (and before the ants carry all the seeds away!)
6. I think darkness is better for germination...I've used both methods.
7. Grow the seedlings cool but bright.

Good luck!

I agree with your temperature Todd, what I should have said is no more than16C. That temp is fine for the house types, but my coums have been in a garage with temps varying from very low (nights) to warmer days in the autumn. The temps have often been quite warm outside so I am assuming warmer in the garage, now they are already small corms with a leaf and the weather is colder, max 9C mostly. A variation of temperatures can have the required effect, but a day time range from 10-15C is what we have beeen getting.

Thank you so much Todd & wallaby! What a wealth of information!! I'm going to print it out so that I have a permanent record of how to grow Cyclamen seeds.

wallaby1 asked:
"Robert, Neal, Kenton, are yours growing yet?"

Well...no. I don't have any, lol. But if I did, I might be growing them just now.

Robert.

Robert, did I not send you some?????

Another planting for winter...

These plants are making a lot of seed any traders out there?

I have losing a few plants to rot. It has been warm (70's day and mid 60's night) and damp. I have been using Hydrogen peroxide with some success, they are a touchy bunch.

The leaf pattern genes must be variable in the hybirds...