i thought there was only ONE catalpa tree. just found out that there is one called NORTHERN (of all things) catalpa that looks a lot like mine. but then mine looks like bignonioides as well. how do i know which i have? i am sorry but i do not know how to take pictures with a digital camera.
if no one on the texas forum knows about this tree who is the resident tree genius on daves? there are more than 2 varieties as well but these 2 i saw pictures of and can't tell which i have. i have never valued my catalpa trees but this is really bugging me. and if it turns out that i have northern catalpa does anyone have bignonioides? lol.
catalpa tree...................what's up with this?
lol mamajack...I didn't know about the 2 varieties until you mentioned it. My parents have a huge Catalpa...and I in fact was given a small one at the San Antonio Swap....so now I'm also wondering which ones we have. *Hmmm*
Melanie
There is a Northern and Southern Catalpa. The Southern blooms later, has smaller flowers, and a narrower, thinner-walled capsule. Does that help? You probably have the Southern, I don't think the Northern would thrive in our areas.
Maybe buy a tree id book with bark differences, or info on their differences. Pics would help to id if you went to the tree forum.
fly_girl what the &^&%^ is a "capsule"? and the info. says that northern catalpa tolerates hot and dry and the bignonioides likes it moist. and it says that the fall color on the northern is not attractive.............at least to that writer. maybe i will go to the tree forum anyway and clean up my utter "amazement" that this might not be a sou...........ahem..........bignonioides catalpa that i have.
Lol mj, the capsule is that brown bean-like pod that's about 8" long. I've read they both like moist and rich soil. I don't think the fall color is that spectacular on either one....more of a yellow-green to brown.
Another source said the C. speciosa is the Western, which is native to central states southward.
Now, I'm confused.
They are the host for the Sphinx moth larvae which is pretty neat.
Is it that you don't want the bignonioides?
no i am a southern girl thru and thru, inside out and upside down. it's a semantics thing. i say to myself................ do i have a "northern" catalpa? i could take it if it's a western tree. lol.
just kidding..........sorta.
all of that aside the picture i saw of the bignonioides showed a much prettier tree than the northern. and yes the catalpa is just not one of those knock your socks off trees but the picture i saw of the bignonioides showed prettier, waxier, greener looking leaves. i know pictures can be deceiving. i did submit this question on the tree forum and someone has answered. i will go and read now.
They are an interesting tree. There's also a dwarf called 'Nana' that's usually grafted on speciosa trunk.
I'm a relocated Yankee so I kind of like the 'northern' name :)
i suspected as much..........."open mouth.......". lol. i don't know why this of all things has surprised me so much. some things i just assume are completely southern and catalpa trees was one of them. like lard and "bless your heart" and being "raised right". and if it weren't for catalpa and hackberry trees i would have no shade at all. what brought this up was a seed trade................they wanted to know what kind? and i said "what do you mean...........what kind?" the one that grows down south with worms that people use to fish with, of course. then they shoot back with 5-6 different ones. and thus began my distress. lol. thank you for helping as much as you could. still no definitive answer on the tree forum either.
I did not know there were two or more kinds either. I new of the catalpa worms from my grandmothers place in Right/Write City (East Texas). Not even sure how it is spelled. We had a swing in the tree and the large black and yellow worms would fall on us sometimes. Always heard that they were good for catfish, but I am not sure that I ever put one on a hook. I thought about trying to grow one just for the worms. I guess those are the larva of the sphinx moth that fly_girl is talking about. We used to use those been pod thingy's as swords. That was well over thirty years ago. Take care, Mike
we live and learn, mike. i had no idea there were so many varieties of catalpa. and on the tree forum they tell me there is also a chinese catalpa. and i don't guess i have sphinx moths here as i have had these trees for years and have no worms. i grew up in miss. and every one i knew that had worms brought them to their tree originally from a tree that already had them.............at least this is what i remember.
Hey, girl!
'.............at least this is what i remember'
& @ our age, it all runs together! roflol
Now, you've got my curosity up, also. Going to have to go to the Farm & ck my inventory!
hey girl back atcha. you do that and if you can shed some light on what i have i would appreciate it. how about that variegated turk's cap? or the pink one? or.........................lol. do you ever get the feeling that i like you only for your plants? cause if you do it's not true. i like you real well. but you are a one of a kind commodity at the same time that you are being a really great person. and i am weak. lol.
mamajack,
Your tree is probably a southern or northern catalpa with southern catalpa being the best bet. Northern catalpa is often referred to as western catalpa.
You can't reliably tell the difference between northern and southern catalpa by leaf shape; although, northern is supposed to have slightly more long-pointed leaves. However, southern catalpa leaves usually emerge three at a time around the same spot (whorled). But, they may be opposte as well so this information is not much help.
Southen catalpa leaves give off an unpleasant odor when they are bruised; whereas, northern catalpa do not. So, if your tree has leaves on it still, go bruise some and smell them. :o)
When the seed pods dry, open one and look at the seeds. The northern catalpas seeds are kind of blunt at the end, while the southern catalpa seeds are drawn out more to a point.
Southern catalpa leaves are 4-8 inches. Northern catalpa leaves are 6-12 inches long.
Southern catalpa sets seed pods in October.with northern catalpa setting seed pods from July through August.
Southern catalpa seed pods are about 6-10 mm thick with northern catalpa being about 10-15 mm thick.
Northern catalpa has slightly larger flowers which are 2 inches wide with a notched lower corolla lobe and southern has smaller flowers which are 1 1/2 inches wide.
Hope this helps you ID your tree
Ooops, edited for typos
This message was edited Dec 2, 2006 9:23 AM
which one sets seed pods from july thru aug.? i will get a leaf that has fallen. we had THE BIG FREEZE a few days ago.
I corrected the booboo above ... the northern catalpa starts to make seed pods in july thru August. I was hoping you had some leaves left to smell because I think that this is the easiest way to determine the tree's ID. Yup, we did have the big freeze. It was down to 28 degrees at my house for hours. But, for some strange reason, few of my plants received freeze damge or if they did just a few leaves had freeze burn. Usually, my unprotected plants receive damage if it is 32 degrees for several hours especially if the humidity is low. I have been trying to figure this out.
thank you ........................and what kind of unpleasant odor? i never noticed an odor.
You are quite welcome. I don't know what sort of odor. I think that there is one in a neighborhood near mine (if it is a southern catalpa). I'll go crush the leaves later, see if they have an odor and report back to you.
(do forgive my intrusion, but the image of what that's going to look like to your neighbours cracks me up)
luna, you are right. it'd be fun to watch the neighbors watch her do that. htop, we await your answer. lol.
Is this the same tree that in East Texas it's pronounced "catawba" tree? If so, all I know about it..is the worms you get off of it..make GREAT fishin bait!
yep, that's the one. now just a question about the worms.................you don't see them on every tree, do you?
Nope..they arent as far as I know..I was just lucky enough that my Mamaw and Papaw had one that we always got bait from..and still do..even though they are gone..The old home place is still there..and the tree still stands..and the worms still spin,..When I was bout 20 I moved into a house that had a "catawba" tree in the yard..Daddy would come by from time to time lookin for worms(he sometimes didnt wanna drive to Rusk to Mamaws)..I lived there for bout 2 yrs before finally gettin some worms offa that tree..
and have you ever seen this moth?
this sounds like a page out of my life. lol.
ok.im confused..yall go on with it..i only know what i fished with many, many times..moth?? no..worm..or we CALLED em worms..more like a nasty, ugly catapiller..sorry...spell like always pronounced..anyway..catalpa..catawba..katobba..sorta like the old saying..6 of one..half dozen another..
was i supposed to be lookin for a moth? never caught a fish with moth..caught many a catfish with the crawlin critters tho...
This message was edited Dec 3, 2006 1:12 AM
Lol turbo....the Sphinx moth caterpillar is the 'worm' everyone is talking about. It pupates into a beautiful moth.
the moth.....................the mama of the caterpillars. lol. i never noticed a moth either when i was growing up. and only saw these "worms" on a few of the trees. and as i said, everyone that i knew that had these on their trees got the worms from another tree that had them.
Ya know..I dont guess I knew that..I even asked DH is he was in on the secret..He said news to him, too..But at any rate..never saw a moth..I found that very interesting..How I wish my Daddy was still around..I would love to pick his brain on that one..He was a great outdoorsman..So much so, he was a police officer up until I was 5, then he became a gamewarden!
It would have been interesting to hear his experience with the catawba worms. In the 1800's fisherman would cultivate the Catalpa just for the worm bait. You may not have seen the moth unless you were out at night, but the caterpillar would be hard to miss, they have a horn on them, and they're kind of scary looking. Some call them the catalpa sphinx.
Yeah..I have fished with many of them..Maybe they are the reason I am dont have a lot of fear of most bugs..I do remember them being some strange lookin creatures, though...I was tickled to see this thread..I hadnt thought of "katobba" worms for a long time....Nice memories of fishin with my Daddy and other members of my family who are no longer alive...
Well, I guess I'm bad, we have a catalpa tree and I always kill the worms when they start crawling on the ground, ugly things! My dog plays with them and was afraid they would sting him. We don't have hardly any sphinx moths around here, I have a few daturas and have really watched for them.
I'm going to have to check the leaves out this summer and see which I have and guess I will have to leave the worms alone so I will have more sphinx! Ours has really big leaves and the seed pods are about 1 1/2'.
When the worms start traveling is that when they go off to make a moth? I sell plants and am always worried that they will eat my plants! lol Will they hurt my dog, he's pretty close to this tree. Dad used to freeze the worms for fishing later.
Hi mamajack! Very interesting thread :-)
Lea
They go to the ground to pupate, but few survive, they have many predators, mainly the parasitic wasp.....and dogs and fishermen lol.
i know lea. i never knew there were so many varieties of catalpa until connie's last most wanted seed thread came out. hart was wanting some and i said i had them and then connie goes and asks "what kind?" lol.
the "worms" don't hurt anybody i don't think. we used to play with them as kids when we did find them. i see these only on datura here. but haven't seen any of those lately. we are in "developer" heaven around here and i know habitat is almost nonexistent anymore. snarl!!!!!!!
they DO go to the ground? tell me more fly girl. i prob. killed them accidentally out of ignorance then because everytime i found one on the ground i put him back on some datura we had growing. that's all i have ever seen them on here.
I know I was amazed at people asking for seed around here, this is an ugly tree in my book and so messy, all the dead leaves look terrible laying on the ground and those seed pods, the developers are starting around here and we have a small woods above us and I have a small woods started on the back lot where the catalpa tree is with a big ole cedar, poplar tree and a few maples, plus this is where I put all of my twigs and limbs from the other trees, the bunnies like it lol
That's good to know about the worms, I won't bother them anymore, can't say for Max though, he likes to roll all over them, they're lucky to survive that lol
I've never seen them eat on the daturas, do they eat yours? Maybe I can just put them on there, I have the big green sphinx moth cat. on them.
yes they eat them. hey, where did fly girl go? she is the one to be asking, not me. i am assuming the datura cat is the same as the one on catalpa. help!
I think they only eat the Catalpa, but you probably have a different kind of moth or butterfly cat on the Duranta. Do you have a picture?
If you put the catalpa cats on another plant they will die, they are picky eaters.
They crawl to the ground and dig a 2 or 3" hole to pupate. I don't think they will bite or hurt you, the horn is just a scare tactic.
Here's a pic of two, they can be light or dark
thank you. it's been a long time since i saw one of those. no, the one on the datura is a solid green and huge and looks so mean. i have seen the moth of those.......she is a big mama-jama too.
Oh, Datura, that's the Hawkmoth cat, did it look like this?
yes, yes, yes. the hawkmoth is big, isn't it? never heard of it. thanks fly girl. i appreciate it.