Missing all my large fish. The question I have is if the fish are dieing do the body's sink instead of float. Checked my PH and it is above 8. Was not watching when we had the rains. Or maybe the coons got them.
Two were over 18 inches. Pond is green so you cannot see them until feeding. 5000 gal pond with veggie pond and waterfall. Ammonia level is zero.
Do you have Herons around. They love pond fish.
Yeah Ted,
rw might have it. Here is one heron (yellow crested night heron) we see here in the North Woods of FW, and other large birds..ie Egrets etc. (anywhere there is water life). I noticed a lot of Cattle Egrets when we went to Duncan Labor Day Weekend. And as you mentioned coons, wouldn't there be some sort of forensic evidence left if it were? # 3 Maybe a rather large snake could have slithered into the pond as well... There's my brain for picking..lol
I'm sorry to hear about your fish, what a bummer! Were they Koi or what kind?
~Debnes
When I have had dead fish in my little ponds they have always floated. The ones that have died have been pretty small so I do not know if that makes a difference. I would not think so as I am sure that you have seen larger fish in lakes that have done the same thing. If it were coons I would think that you would see some sort of evidence around the outside edges such as torn up dirt or plants. Could have been herons of some kind as I believe they are able to carry off some pretty big fish. I do not know how deep they are able to go. Is there any possibility that the fish are hiding? You said you had some green water going on and they can hide pretty well if they want to. I have to admit that if the herons all look as beautiful as the picture that Debnes was kind enough to share with us, I might personally be tempted to encourage some around here.......... and probably regret it later............... :)
Forensic Evidence left: None
Floating Fish: None
Several large KOI over a foot long.
Lots of Gold Fish, only the small one are eating.
Pond is 1.5 tapered down to 3 foot.
Did see a large black snake, but don't see him eating a big one.
Did see some Heron posted on my sisters natural pond waiting for it to dry up.
Have three dogs. They are spoiled and like it inside. Think I will put the big one outside on guard duty. LOL
Oh Ted, I am so sorry for your fish loss. Yes the big ones float just like the little ones do BTW. Did they have a habit of feeding near the edge of the pond? Herons light on the edges and walk in, that slope would make it easy. The one that was at my pond one morning was 4 foot tall. We took action and netted the pond with the black 3/4" where we could still see and feed but kept the Herons out. A friend of DH's had a snake wipe him out of Koi once too.
Hopefully they have had a scare and maybe not all are gone, perhaps they are hiding. Don't feed them for a day or so, then see if they will come out.
Good Luck.
When a Great Blue Heron took my fish I caught him grabbing them, throwing them in the air(sort of) and swallowing them whole...straight down. Great Blues are BIG birds...and can fish a pond out in a short time.
I am sorry for your loss...if you are like me, you probably had your finned-kids named.
My shallows and anywhere the Heron could stand and fish outside the pond....are either netted, or surrounded with huge containers of plants now.....leaving no room for the bird to get close enough to stand and fish.
A large snake could easily open his jaws, (they are one of a few creatures that can eat something many times larger than their own head), and swallow an 18" Koi whole. A Great Blue Heron could too as BingsBelle was saying, but you really dont see that large of water-life preying birds in TX & OK. The lare birds are more like that one in my pic, or an egret about same size or smaller. I'm betting it's your new pet snake.
Glad your dog is a large one, that might help..but maybe not if it is a snake...they are very sneaky and subtile creatures.
Sheila has a lovely small pond, and has had sucess with her preventions of birds eating her Koi. ;-)
This message was edited Sep 17, 2006 8:09 PM
Well Ted knows that I killed five of my 16-18" Koi, by forgetting to turn off the tap water when filling the pond!! I almost wished I could blame the heron, the guilt was hard to get over. ....But thanks Debnes, did enjoy your visit btw. After coming home from Konkreteblond's full colorful butterfly garden yard, I am so envious! Next year that bare temp pond spot will have a super butterfly garden in it!
I am sorry for the loss!! I think the heron feasted on your kois and they are going to come back. I always wonder why i see a lot of ponds not netted. It is a very expensive lesson for me and that is why my pond is netted permanently. If you had not seen the netting it is the thread New Members pond few threads from the top. . Happy ponding!!! Belllie
Ted, I'm betting on the snake. I've had a snake in my pond for several weeks and my fish population continues to drop. I've tried to net it but he's too fast. I did once scare it out of the pond and my cat chased under the fence into the woods but of course it came back. I may just have to give up on fancy fish, I don't think there's a way to win this one. Next year I'll limit myself to the 10¢ feeder fish... that would be their fate anyway I guess. And I will NOT name them! :·)
I've had them all. The egrets can clean a pond out in no time. I've had a 4' black snake for the last 4 years and have personally caught him with 12" fish and beat him senseless twice. My husband finally shot him in July. I trap about 15 raccoons a year and send them to Bluebonnet swamp( a tourist place to see nature about 15 miles from my house.) I even have a 14" Box turtle I named Fertile that made his home in my pond and I caught him eating one of my biggest fish about 20" and beat him with my long handled net until i noticed that the fish was already dead and Fertile was cleaning the pond.
This is nature. It is all part of the excitement of water gardening. Sometimes you have to learn to take the good with the bad.
But with all of the above bad, I wouldn't give up my pond.
Jeri
http://nationalzoo.si.edu/Animals/ReptilesAmphibians/Facts/FactSheets/Blackratsnake.cfm
http://www.handsontheland.org/classroom/01/handson/Animals/Reptiles/western_cotton_snake/western%20cottonmouth%20snake.htm
Hiya Ted!
Here's a couple urls to compare the black snake you saw... Rat snakes are very common, and there are several kinds of water moccasins which are blackish in color.
Everyone posted such great suggestions here! Applaudes ** If you haven't found out for sure you might do a stake-out or (snake-out) to catch him in the act. KatyMac and I beleive it might be a snake, and a net wont keep a slithery snake out...the only thing to do is aprehend that thief.. and take him to jeri's house so she can beat him senseless.
Let us know how your coming along with it bro!
~ Debnes
I am looking for a cheap tank of some sort to start cleaning out the pond. Stock tanks are too expensive to use only once a year. And they cost 159.00 What do you guys use to hold your fish while cleaning.
Going to drain the whole thing. make a few changes, Sort out all the fry, get rid of the gold fish and start all over. If there is a snake it had better run for cover cause I am mad. LOL
Booted the dogs out of the house and put them to work.
Already the squirrels are leaving the bird seed alone.
If the fish died and sank I will find them.
Bringing down the PH on the pond. Used three pints of muriatic acid so far and still not out of the blue color yet. I like Sheila may have killed them. I forgot about the well water and left it on over night. It ran into the pond.
My snake is a rat snake and about four foot long. Cant find him yet
When I drain the pond and clean out the biofilter and veggie pond I will redo all the rock. He is a dead snake.
Yeah the Rat snakes are out in full force these days. My friend in Southlake has one about that size living in her back yard tree.
We will be cheering for you from the shore here, and I wish you the utmost of success Ted!
~Debnes
Ted, some of the rental companies have the stock tanks for rent down here, you might check out the cost there.
What we have done in the past was throw up a temporary pond with landscaping stones and an extra heavy duty pond liner. We had those stones on hand, but they would be too costly to buy just for that purpose. But if you have anything you can use a liner over and get it to hold water could be used, like truck bed, etc. You can pump your pond water over into it to save water. Deeper is better than wider, but definately cover it because they my jump out if they panic. We have also thought about using a large kiddy swimming pool as a one-day temp holding, but I was always afraid it wouldn't hold up to the cat or dog's nails if they decided to investigate.
Don't forget the aeration and netting on the top of your holding tank set up.
Make sure netting is tight across so their fins don't get hung up in it.
I always put my tanks/barretls etc. in the shade. You can float a piece of styrafoam on top of the water in your holding set-up that seems that seems to calm the fish down some.
Let us know what kind of animal your predator is.
DH says get a cheap WM Kiddie pool for cleaning the pond, it can be strapped up in rafters somewhere when ya dont need it and should only cost about 10 bucks. Yes and aeriate too.. They make those kiddie pools pretty big now, oh well it's an idea.
Debnes
This message was edited Sep 19, 2006 5:39 PM
I too believe a snake might be your problem. Had 18 goldfish and now down to 6. Saw the snake in the pond but took two weeks to finally catch him. We tried netting but never could get him. My wife was finally able to pin him in the rocks with a shovel and hold him down until he drowned. From watching him previously we figured he had to surface about every 15 minutes for air. From what we could find on line and get confirmed with a neighbor who is a scout leader it was a diamondback water snake (not poisonous). Supposedly they will make their home in goldfish ponds (at least here in Texas) and stay as long as the food supply lasts. Snake has been dead for three weeks now and have not lost any more fish. Good luck!
Poor fish, I bet they were tormented until you killed the slimy slueth!
Well I started draining my pond.
All the neighbors down the hill thought they had a water leak. LOL
And !!! guess what they were hiding all this time. 5000 gals of green water feed them I guess.
Filled a 300 gal stock tank and put three aquarium air stones in it and covered with a lattice panel I had. Tomorrow I will drain the pond some more, until I can get them with a net. Will clean and then fill back up over night.
Let set for how long, Before I can put the fish back in??
How long can I keep 6 big fish and several little ones in that tank?
Am A very happy camper!!!!!
This message was edited Sep 29, 2006 4:04 PM
So they were hiding, not missing??? Is that right? Yea!!!
I would definately figure a way to measure the gallons per hour as you fill it back up. We did and were way off on our caluclation based on the size and depth of our pond. That way you can get an accurate calculation when you need to medicate, etc. Which btw, I would put in a ick, etc. treatment after they settle back in the big pond. Moving debris usually stirs up some parasites. Careful of the temperature changes before re-introducing them too.
Sheila
Way Cool Ted!!
I am so glad to hear this!! I was asking a habitat specialist about this problem and she said to have a huge flat rock down in the bottom for them to hide under because snakes wouldnt be able to get to them as easy and they don't like being under water for longer than a few min..(just a thought while you have it drained.)
Such good news your Koi are all safe! Ted, what a relief!!
;oD
Oh, Ted you asked how long to let the refilled pond set. If you use the de-chlorniator to take out the chlorine, you could re-introduce them as soon as the temp of the water equalized. But if you aren't using the chemical, I would test it first.
As for the green water problem, put in a 'good' bacteria everyday for a week then once every 2 weeks and that should set up a good bio-system to help keep the water clear.
Best of luck.
Been a real busy morning. Drained the pond all the way and cleaned out all the muck.
Fish are all out and safe.
Filling it back up. That will take a long time with the low water pressure.
Will buy some medicine as they were in muck trying to net them.
Here's the empty pond with a plank I used for the wheelbarrow to roll out on.
Here's six wheelbarrow's full of muck. Two years worth. Did not know you could accumulate that much.
Forgot the photo
Way to go Ted!
YaaaaY!
No wonder you couldn't see them Ted, that pond is quite deep. I dont' think the Heron's would try going in since it drops off pretty good. I don't know about you up there, but we are heating up here again this week. Make sure you give your fish lots of oxygen while they are confined. Glad you didn't find any fish bones! LOL!! Guess you didn't find the snake either?
