Does anyone know how to raise brix level in the garden?Thanks for any information you can share.
raising brix
By brix, are you referring to the ratio of dissolved sucrose to water? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brix
I don't understand the connection to the garden....
Yuska: Brix is away to grow the best tasting an insect free vegetables[This sould tell more about this way. www.westonaprice.org/farming/nutrienl-dense.html
This message was edited Aug 28, 2006 3:50 PM
This message was edited Aug 28, 2006 3:58 PM
Brix is more than a measure of the sugar, it's a measure of the mineral content as well.
High Brix vegetables have more nutrition.
http://crossroads.ws/brixbook/BBook.htm
Lockman, I think you will need to experiment with differnt plant food materials to determine the best way to raise your Brix. A ready made alternative is to use a High Brix Mix fertilizer like the one that Peaceful Valley Farm supply sells.
http://www.groworganic.com/item_F240_BrixMixLiquidQuart.html
I'm going to try the packaged Brix Mix with my fall crop. Long term, I'd like to find a sustainable way to keep the Brix high. It will be interesting to see if this can be accomplished with rock dusts and green manures.
I've used the Peaceful Valley Brix Mix. Be sure to order both the liquid and powdered part of it. Be very careful not to use it when the daytime temperature's become too hot. I always sprayed it at night, but I found that once we started having really hot days (95-115), even if I sprayed it the night before it would cause burning on my cucumbers and summer squashes over the coming days. I would start with the lower concentrations in the given range and carefully test to make sure that you don't burn your plants. More of it can be sprayed, but with careful monitoring.
When I didn't overuse and burn the plants they became extremely green and healthy. For some of the potted plants that I have outside, I spray them and keep them inside out of the high heat for a two days.
I've been very happy with all of the peaceful valley products. I use the Omega 1-5-5, Micro-phos and Maxicrop to follow the initial 4 sprays of Brix Mix as suggested in their catalog.
Most recently, I've been using in the Soil, Alfalfa Meal, Algit Kelp Meal, Micro-phos and compost.
Most of the plants that I have been using these products on are in large wine barrel planters.
One article I was reading stated that Brix levels are higher in the afternoon. Harvest done then is higher brix than early morning harvest.
Well, I broke down and ordered a refractometer today. Be interesting to see if I can put it to good use.
Do y'all think it would be a good idea to start a brix info & discussion thread?
I would be interested in hearing others experiences in using materials to raise brix, types of refractometers and other instruments used, etc, etc. There is a growing interest in high-brix gardening/farming. If there is enough interest, we might eventually request a Brix forum.
Your thoughts?
I thought this WAS a brix discussion thread!
I am all for discussion. I am very curious about those things too. Why don't we see if there are others who have info on this process, and if there is a lot of discussion, we can turn it into a forum? I am not sure how many people there are who even know about it.
It IS a brix discussion thread!
Didn't meant to imply otherwise. Sorry for not being clear.......there are many aspects to discuss related to brix beyond raising it. Awhile back, I was looking for a thread with basic information as well as discussion, sort of like those Sticky threads that appear on a number of forums that include information on the basics of the topic and then the rest of the threads take off from there. I couldn't find this on DG. Maybe I just didn't do my search with the right words, so if you know of one, please post the link.
I broke down and applied a weak (I hope) solution of the PV Brix Mix to the remains of my summer garden last evening. Hopefully I won't find burnt leaves when I visit it today.
I would like to hear from others on the following brix related topics:
How long have you been working with the concept of Brix as a measure of nutrient dense foods and how did you first hear about it?
What type/brand of refractometer are you using? What features inspired you to buy the one have? What do you like/dislike about it? Would you recommend it to others?
Are you also using other instruments along with the refractometer? eg, ORP or ERG meters?
Do you test the pH of your plant sap as a guide to anion/cation activity/deficiency and use that to guide in nutrient application?
Are you using a brix consultant? If so, what has the experience been like?
Have you used insect pests as a guide to which nutrient to apply, eg, interpreting an attack of harlequin bugs as a sign of calcium or sulfur deficiency? (someone on BrixTalk mentioned this recently).
Do you test the Brix of your weeds as well as your crop?
I'm sure more questions will arise as discussions take place.
garden_mermaid, my entire awareness stems from this thread! I just ordered a Zeiss refractometer, basically because I know Zeiss makes fine optics. My primary purpose will be for my ripening grapes and I hope to make wine. However, this thread encouraged me to use it in my new garden ongoing.
I have MUCH to learn!
I've recently found and joined a Yahoo Group site called BrixTalk that was started by Rex Harrill who setup the crossroads brix site.
Hopefully this link will get you to the home page to join if you are interested:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/BrixTalk/
If the link doesn't work, try searching YahooGroups on the topic of Brix.
Did you order your Zeiss refractometer on EBAY from the person in Spain?
Nataraj, did you measure the brix before and after spraying with the brix mix and did you see a measurable improvement?
Yes, that's where oredered it. Hope it was not an expensive mistake! He said I should have it in a week or two.
garden_mermaid,
A search on DG for "brix" turned up 13 threads....I had used the word on two of them.
I just ate a watermelon [home grown] so good that I plan to test the brix tomorrow on the other quarter of it. I have used seaweed extract [foliar] on the melons and I also have added dolomite limestone, sulfur, and a very micro amount of boron.
The following link has some other interesting links too.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/600983/
Thanks Indy.
I must be using the search function on DG incorrectly. Maybe it doesn't like my wild card characters in the search field. I've had trouble finding prior posts with the search and others can get to them easily.
What type of refractometer do you use? Please do post your brix reading.
Darius, the ebay deal seemed reasonable. Zeiss does make excellent optics. I look forward to hearing your experiences with it.
No I didn't measure brix, though I could see noticable improvements in the health of the plants. I've done very little foliar spraying this summer due to the extreme temperatures (many days in the 100-115 range).
I've been learning biointensive farming, primarily from the work of John Jeavons. Though I can use lot's of fancy products to raise my brix, I've become much more interested in building really strong soil health using double dug raised beds and good composting. I feel that this is creates alot more solid base for healthy plants to grow in. Then if you want to raise the brix still further, that can still be done.
I'm aware of a bunch of other techniques that different people are using, though I don't yet know much about them. One of them is the use of EM (effective microorganisms) and bokashi which is made from the EM.
People are also using the high mineral content of seawater for irrigation. I'm not sure how they do it without having problems from excessive salt concentration.
garden_mermaid? Have you ever visited the Common Ground store and learning center http://www.commongroundinpaloalto.org ?
I just ordered the zeiss refractometer. I already have the Hanna combo PH/TDS/EC meter though it an immersion type.
How about these things for raising brix?
http://www.oceangrown.com/
http://www.rawfood.com/cgi-bin/order/index.cgi?id=860111692294&d=single&item_id=1002&c=Tapes/CDs&sc=Raw_Foods&tc=
http://www.rawfood.com/cgi-bin/order/index.cgi?id=860111692294&d=single&item_id=0842&c=Misc&sc=Plant_Food&tc=
http://tribes.tribe.net/effectivemicro
http://www.cityfarmer.org/bokashi.html
There are also commercially available EM products as an alternative to growing them yourself.
Also, having adequate calcium is very important for proper absorbtion of other nutrients. There is a fancy, expensive product which I suspect is very good http://www.calcium25.com , though my intention is to make a tea out of comfrey leaves. There are other much cheaper calcium products, but most of them use funky chemicals for the chelating process. If you call calcium25, they will actually sell much smaller quantities than those priced on the web page. I have not used this product.
As a foliar spray, I think calcium should be applied seperately, probably a day or so before using other foliar sprays and can increase the absorbtion of the later sprays. The calcium25 web page says that calcium, unlike other fertilizers that can burn, is best absorbed when sprayed during warmer temperatures.
Thanks nataraj. I'll check out those links.
I agree with you about the importance of building good soil. We are actually using a variation of Jeavons method in our garden bed and have been fans of his work for decades. This is the first year of our community garden and we got a late start getting everything going due the heavy rains that lasted through April. We usually grow green manures, but due to the short season, elected to use amendments this year following a generalized program recommended by Common Ground for those not testing the soil first. We went with the average soil, 1st year amendment program since the Master Gardeners had indicated that the native soil in this area is naturally high in minerals, just poor in nitrogen. In hindsight, we should have followed out instincts and used recommendations for poor, depleted soil. We definitely did not get enough calcium into the soil at the beginning. I've had to supplement with additional fertilizers this year, although not so much since the undersown covercrops have grown up. We are going to add alot more of rock dust to remineralize after the summer crop comes out at the end of this month.
I started using EM this year, both by brewing up some activated EM and by using Bokashi composting. We have our first batch of bokashi finishing between layers of soil now. I'm going to try to make some Bokashi powder following the cityfarmer recipe as it is too expensive to buy the bags of it from SCD. There has been an exponential improvement in garden growth since we added the dechlorinator to the hose line as well.
One thing that I find interesting about the high brix movement is that in many ways it is "scientifically" validating what the bio-dynamic agriculturalists have been saying for decades.
garden_mermaid,
My son came over with his refractometer this morning [ATAGO N1 0-32%}.
The very, very delicious home grown watermelon tested 13.2 % which is excellent. The good melon tested 11.2 which is good. This helps confirms that high brix parallels good taste.
Indy, those are impressive watermelons you've grown!
Thanks for reporting the brix level.
Got my Zeiss refractometer! Tested my grapes... the ones not in direct sun all day measured 12º brix, and the ones in sun measured 16º. Being a newbie at wine making, I'm going by the books and the books suggest a brix of 22º before picking. Gonna be quite an experimental year!
Congrats, darius! Did the Zeiss come with instructions and/or a chart showing brix preference levels, etc or did you find a separate book somewhere?
If I had one I'd probably be running around here all day checking this, checking that, just fruit on the kitchen counter to veggies in the garden to leaves/foliage on trees! What a fun day that would be!
Shoe.
Thanks for posting your results darius. I'm keeping my eyes out for a similar bargain on an instrument. Did you notice if the line in your refractometer was sharp or fuzzy?
I've read that a sharp line is considered more indicative of sugar content, whereas a "fuzzy" line showed a broader spectrum of dissolved nutrients.
Shoe, the crossroads link in my post above can guide you to some charts for brix measurements. The BrixTalk yahoo group site mentioned in one of the posts above also has links and files with useful information.
It is quite possible that a certification for nutrient dense foods will be coming down the pipeline. Organic produces a clean food supply that is often more nutritious than the conventional, but in and of itself, organic certification does not guarantee nutrient density. It's the first step on a longer path.
"organic certification does not guarantee nutrient density."
Boy howdy, tell me about it, Mermaid...and don't get me started on organic certification. (The NOS program has some good merits but is a thorn in the side of many of us "formerly known as" organic growers.)
Thanks for the links above, will check them out. And if you find a good deal on a refractometer please post here. The one Darius has seemed like a good price to me but I guess I need to study up on the various kinds and what one does over the other.
Shoe.
Soap boxes can be very educational Shoe. :-D
I've seen several venting threads on DG. Sometimes you just need to let the steam out to so folks can help find some solutions, and possibly develop an action plan or two.
Since you mentioned that you are "formerly known as" an organic grower, does that mean that you chose not to continue with an organic certification? If so, how do you present your crops currently?
I also got my zeiss refractometer from Spain yesterday. I knew my grapes tasted good, but when they brixed at a sharp 22, I was quite suprised.
I lost a zucchini plant to gophers yesterday, and immediately tested the brix of the zucchinis still left on the plant. It was a slightly fuzzy 12.
My tree collard brixed at a very fuzzy 11.
My tomato's were a slightly fuzzy 8.
The zeiss refractometer does just about everything you could want. It won't (at least easily) brix the fruit of things like avocado's, okra, honey, maple syrup, etc for which you can't extract a juicelike liquid. For that you need a digital refractometer which are probably at least $500.
The zeiss does not have automatic temperature compensation, so you can look at a table and add or subtract typically at the most +-1 for very hot or very cold days, but this is no big deal. There is some more info on refractometers in the resource section of the yahoo brixtalk list, but I think you need to become a list member to access this.
http://www.tandjenterprises.com/brix_equals_quality.htm has a good article describing brix with some comparison charts further down.
http://www.abcorganics.com/Brix%20Crop%20Quality%20Index.pdf is another brix comparison chart.
Nataraj
Heheh...Mermaid, usually when I get on a soap box it is to tell tall tales/funny stories or give info out to the folks at the mkt to regarding how-to's and such regrading plants and plant growing! So far I've haven't fallen off yet but have been able to step down safely! :>)
As for the NOS certificate, so many people have known of my growing technique/standards/style for so many years that I don't really have to promote how I grow. Although I grew up "organically growing" we didn't know it at the time, we just didn't have the luxury of buying 10-10-10 and the related pesticides/herbicides. As years went by I just continued growing things as I knew how. (To this very day I couldn't tell you how to apply the chem ferts so have to admit I'm pretty illiterate in that area.)
I won't stray too far off the path of this thread but to quickly fill you in I just let folks know (if they ask) that I grow food crops via "FMA" (formerly known as) and it starts up a great conversation. I also let folks know that it could also be referred to as "naturally grown", "herbicide/pesticide/chem fert free", or the like. Fortunately for me and locals/customers they know I've been growing this way for 20 years on this particular farm (and others that know me longer know I've grown that way much longer before I purchased this land).
nataraj, thanks for the input and info. I'll be sure to check out the links you've provided! (Now, about that collard tree...is it good eatin'!?) (I just set out 45 collard plants yesterday; might be nice to have a tree!)
Shoe.
The US and Canada have the loosest organic standards in the world. Outside of the US, I am aware that at least Europe and Japan do not allow products certified under the US NOP program to be sold as organic. Growers and producers of other organic products that wish to sell to these countries as organic must have further certifications.
To see a document which just scratches the surface of these issues see ccof's handbook which describes their certification program necessary for export to these countries.
http://www.ccof.org/pdf/CCOFman3.pdf
Probably about middway through the document begin a series of tables describing things that are allowed in the NOP and the corresponding objections to these practices by these other countries.
Personally, I don't pay alot of attention to these politics anymore. The more I learned, the more I realized that the safest way to have high quality food was to grow it myself.
I don't know of anyone farming hundreds or thousands of acres (like some of the big guys certified by NOP) that produces high quality produce. The largest farms I am aware of that are producing fairly decent produce are about 200 acres, and even they are using compost's from city recycling programs.
15 years ago, I used to go to farming conferences and attend farm tours when a 50 acre organic farm was considered big and they were doing all their own composting and still figuring out how to amend their soil and manage pests using homemade solutions and there were still very few commercial organic farming products available.
The tree Collard is a perennial that grows to about 6 ft tall. It is supposed to be very productive at producing eating quality greens which are suitable for sale on the open market as collard greens for about 3 years. Since I mostly eat greens raw, I've used it mostly for juicing, but could steam some up and try some.
The plant was imported, I think from australia, by John Jeavons. It is propagated by cuttings and may not produce any seed. It is very space effective and doubles as a carbon/biomass crop for composting, particularly during the warm/hot season when the leaves may be too tough to eat.
Unfortunately the only place I know to get them is from the Common ground store in Palo Alto, Ca and from the 4 summer tours of John's research farm IN Willets, Ca. Neither place ships them by mail. Mine does not appear ready for me to take cutting from. I think it is supposed to get branches, unless you could take a cutting from a single leaf with a stem. I need to find out. Mine just has a tall central stem with lots of leaves. I would like to plant about 25 sq feet of them in a bed, if I am able to take a trip and get some more (about 3 hours drive each way). They sell them in pots, but perhaps they could be shipped as a bareroot, if somebody could get them and do that for you.
Okay, thanks!
A couple years ago someone emailed/dmailed me about collard trees. At the time I hadn't heard about them but that person sent me a pic. (He, too, lived in Calif.)
I imagine they may not be hardy in NC since they hail from Australia. But that's fine, I have many collard plants to eat from throughout the Winter so I'll be fine.
Thanks for the info...sounds like a mighty fine tree to have!
Shoe.
Maybe it wasn't australia that they come from, I'd have to dig around to find out. We get temperatures that dip as low as 10 degrees with temperatures commonly in the high 20's during the wintertime and I'm pretty sure the Willets research farm sees those as well. I guess I'll find out this winter.
Shoe, my refractometer came with simple instructions of how to use it. No info on how/what to look for so I guess I'll have to google a lot of stuff.
The one thing I can tell you is that you MUST have a bright light or the scale isn't easily readable through the lens.
Tree collards are very popular in African countries like Kenya. I always thougth they were a relative of amaranth or sorghum but my google search has them listed as a Brassica oleracea like lacinato kale.
Okay, thanks darius!
Mermaid, thanks for the tree collar info; nataraj, our temps sometimes get in the 20's here (and rarely in single digits), sounds like the tree collard might be fine here. I'll keep my eyes out for a source.
Thanks ya'll.
Shoe.
I am trying Brix on a patch of pineapples at the present time. I am using it in conjuntion with Turf & Garden Pro, a natural soil ammendment. Will tell you more in about eight months. Will be trying it on bannanas also.
Has anyone used Calcium 25 before. nataraj; Do you have a recipe for comfrey tea. How often do you use it. THANKS
Yes, I did one spraying so far with Calcium-25. The results were amazing. Some plants actually became greener within 10 minutes. This was for plants that I had growing in wine barrels where I had not added enough lime. The effect may not be as noticable if the plants are not deficient.
I have not yet made the comfrey tea, because I did a late planting of comfrey and didn't have enough to harvest for it. My medicinal uses had higher priority. Somewhere I've got the comfrey booklet from the bountifulgardens.org website. I'll have to dig it up. There's probably others around on the internet.
lockman, you may find this site interesting:
http://www.attra.org/attra-pub/biodynamic.html#liquid
Interesting. One of my favorite farms is http://www.marianfarmsbiodynamic.com/ I once attended a talk given by Gena about her farming experience. She is one passionate farmer living and breathing anthroposophy in her fields. I'd be suprised if anything she grew wasn't high brix.
THe agricultural part of Biodynamics is very closely related to the Biointensive techniques with the major differences being the biodynamic sprays and the rituals with animal parts performed in the field when making the fertilizers.