Infected chrysalises

Burleson, TX(Zone 8a)

I thought I would share these pics so that others might learn. I think my cage had a virus in it. I'm actually hoping someone will know if that's what happened.

I released some Black Swallowtail's from it but then the remaining chrysalises never eclosed and turned a orangish color that I've never seen before. Then one by one the Monarch chrysalises started to get the dreaded black dot then they turned colors. I've only had a few of them die before and the chrysalis just got a black spot that got bigger but never anything like this.

I cleaned out all the chrysalises, sprayed it down, then I sprayed it down with bleach/water and left it in the sun for a few days to bake and disinfect it. I sure hope that worked.

Thumbnail by konkreteblond
Burleson, TX(Zone 8a)

These are the one that I removed.

Thumbnail by konkreteblond
Burleson, TX(Zone 8a)

Another view of odd colors. (sorry, this pic is below)

Since that happened I haven't used the cage and have been struggling with a stupid glass aquarium. Ugh, too much trouble. I finally released all the Gulf Frits and 2 Giant Swallowtail's. One remaining GST didn't attach itself well to anything and had fallen so I used double sided tape and stuck it on a stick. I put the stick on an upper shelf in the entertainment center in the living room and cleaned out the aquarium. I meant to put the chrysalis in something but forgot. So today my husband is walking towards the back door and gets startled and starts yelling "a butterfly! what's a butterfly doing in here!" (like he doesn't know! it's not rare to have a "cat alert!" when a caterpillar has gone wandering to make a chrysalis) The cat (feline) rushed over but was quickly removed while I captured the GST and put it outside.

This message was edited Aug 21, 2006 10:09 PM

Thumbnail by konkreteblond
Burleson, TX(Zone 8a)

Oops, forgot I was going to post a 2nd pic of the yucky chrysalises.

Thumbnail by konkreteblond
Edinburg, TX

Thanks for sharing those photos. I've been blessed not to have any infected caterpillars or chrysalides to date.

Almost thought I had one Sunday as I noticed a Queen chrysalis with black spots on it...I separated it and then noticed it changing colors as the day progressed. Released a healthy male today. It was just the dark wings that were starting to show through the shell. I'd never noticed they did that! I usually see them as a green chrysalis then the next thing all dark and clear looking where you can see the butterfly inside :o)

~ Cat

Edinburg, TX

Are they all infected? It almost looks like you can see the butterfly about to emerge in the middle chrysalis??? I thought when they were infected long black stringing things would come out the hanging chrysalis???

~ Cat

Burleson, TX(Zone 8a)

Yes, they all stayed like that. I thought they were going to be ok too because I've watched them slowly start turning before they eclose, but then they never did. They sat for a couple of weeks like this until I finally removed them. :(

Edinburg, TX

That is sad. Did you dissect them? Am curious to know if there were bugs inside? Or was it some type of virus?

Am beginning to wonder about my Black Swallowtail chrysalides. I have six that haven't pupated...and it's been since April!!! They all look healthy. Had some last October that didn't eclose until six months later.

~ Cat

NE Medina Co., TX(Zone 8a)

I had problems with both some Queen cats and chrysalides. Some of the chrysalides went very dark...kind of like the black death I've read about. Ever heard of that one? Anyway, they were dead. And a few Queen cats got green diarrhea and just died. It's strange, because usually my Queens have no problems.

Burleson, TX(Zone 8a)

Linda, I've never had problems with Queens either. I hope mine do ok this year. I think the "black death" may be what I've had happen before when they start out with one black spot and just turn black, never a bunch of different colors. I can't remember any of my Monarch's or Queen's dying before they pupated tho. I think that's pretty common. I wonder if it's a different type of death than when they die in the chrysalis? Me thinks I'll have to ask Mr. Hill.

Cat, NO I didn't disect them! lol The thought probably crossed my mind but I would really freak out if there were bugs inside. Aaahhh!! Some things just don't qualify as "interesting" to me.

Vancleave, MS(Zone 8b)

so sorry KK. I have never seen anything like that

Stephenville, TX(Zone 8a)

Caterpillar viruses are reasonably specific and most of them turn the larva or caterpillar into soup. It would be odd, but not impossible, for a virus to infect two such different species as a monarch and a fritillary or swallowtail. The description and pictures fit a protozoan called a microsporidium which commonly infects across family lines in the butterflies and moths. These can also be transmitted vertically, from mother to offspring. The monarchs have their own particular protozoan, a weird one that comes out through the cuticle with the scales on the body and then is left on the host plant when eggs are laid. Larvae eat the spores while feeding and so the infection is perpetuated. The monarchs in the Texas flyway are reputedly about 15% infected with this species (Ophryocystis elektroscirrha - what a name!) and queens are also susceptible. I don't know if it would do this to a chrysalis, but the regular Nosema brand of protozoan would.

Another possibility is a bacterial infection brought about by stress. Was the emergence cage outside and did it get overly hot? Did the caterpillars get stressed before pupation, meaning something like running out of food for a day or so?

Lastly, it may not even be an infectious microbe that did this but rather something (like a chemical) on their host plant. Also, is there a chance that all the affected group came from the same parent? If the parent had a problem, it could show in the next generation.

If it is an infectious agent, you are doing the right thing. A 10% solution of chlorine bleach will kill any microbe of importance. So will sunlight - the UV rays are very effective at destroying all the caterpillar pathogens and do it within minutes. Take a stiff brush to remove the silk chrysalis attachments and to work the bleach into cracks in areas like boards or plywood lids and into any areas sunlight might not reach.

However, the emergence cage is probably not the problem, but rather the rearing cage or host plant. Except for some mostly soil-borne nematodes and a few fungi (and these pictures don't show evidence of that) all the pathogens have to either be eaten, passed from a parent or injected by a parasite in the larval stage of the butterfly or moth. Disinfection is by the same methods, with the addition that small things like vases and jars can also be microwaved. Ten seconds at high power kills all insect pathogens provided they are not protected by a layer of dirt or some such.

If this continues, save some of the dead pupae and chrysalises and I will put some wet mounts of tissue under a phase scope to determine whether or not a pathogen is involved and which one it is. The disinfection routine would still be the same, but at least you will know which one you're up against or whether there is something in the physiology to consider instead.

FM

Burleson, TX(Zone 8a)

FM, I'm sorry I haven't replied to your wonderful info! I read it late the other evening and it was too much to process. lol I'm going to have to read this several times to make sure I understand it.

I have been trying to remember what I did with all the cats I had at that time but it's not easy. I don't think I had them all in the cage/box because I was not really wanting to use it at first. I remember it being in the garage, which would be why I have 4 Black Swallowtail chrysalis in a little mesh bug hut instead.

I remember when those cats got pretty big that I put them in the hut to pupate, so that must have been the batch that I just had out in the open on the cabinet eating dill. Yes, I think so because I remember it smelling good. :)

Which means that the BST's were not in the cage and several of them did not pupate. I do have those 4 chrysalis that I could send to you. I did have some eclose fine tho. So that sounds like something passed on from the mother? Because not all of them ate dill either. Some ate Rue and I had Giant Swallowtail's eat the rue and eclose fine too.

The thing that made me think it was something in the box was because there was one Monarch chrysalis that I took out of the cage and left inside in a vase because it had attached to a dead stick of dill. This one eclosed fine while all the others inside died.

Oh, my brain hurts. Can you decipher anything from this? lol

I really should pay more attention and keep better track. I always think I'll just leave them outside tho and end up with them strung all over the kitchen. I just brought in more Monarch's and Queen's and eggs yesterday because all I'm finding outside are black remnants of cats that appear to be killed by spiders. gggrrr

THANK YOU SO MUCH for taking the time to read this and teach us!

Paige

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