Question on grasses

I wasn't sure where to post this, so I decided here since we have the dead lawn society after all. My dad had soil brought in at their 2nd house in AR and some guy they hired did the grass seed. One was bermuda grass. It's taking over and well, it just looks like a weed and not a grass. What kinds of (lawn) grass would one plant in zone 6 AR? I've already tried talking them into not planting grass and forgoing the lawn, but he won't. So instead of complaining about his choice, please offer me some suggestions as to good grass for there.

Thanks to all,

Terry

Buchloe dactyloides

*A native to Arkansas which will put a smile on your face.
*Requires little water once established which will put a smile on your Dad's face. Saves him mucho $$$ not having to hire people to come over and water when they are up north. This plant is drought resistant because its roots go down about 5' unlike more popular grasses used in lawns. The nice thing about this is that the Buchloe dactyloides protects itself by going dormant if there is a lack of rain in the area so unlike others that may die off requiring reseeding, Buchloe dactyloides keeps going as if it has an Everready battery in it.
*Requires 50% less mowing because it's a short grass which will save $$$ being as how that's a vacation home for your parents so they don't need to have landscapers over but every other week and that will most certainly put a smile on your Dad's face!

Did I mention it is It is also heat and cold resistant? The plant is extremely heat and cold resistant. Did I mention it is every bit as attractive as traditional turf grasses if not more so as the blades have a nice shape and texture to them? In fall when other lawn grasses are going tan, Buchloe dactyloides turns a pleasing lavenderish coloration which is a sight for tired eyes at that time of year.

They have low snowfall. I also read it wants full or afternoon sun. I can see it working mostly in the front yard, maybe. I think there's 4 oaks and a redbud in the front yard. I also think the side yard and backyard is too shady. The house is in the woods. Guy would be ecstatic, lots and lots of oaks. It gives me an idea on what's left of my own turf.........

Sweetie, get a local genotype! That will address darling Daddy's lack of snow cover. The native range on this plant extends way north. I suppose a northern genotype would probably need snow cover. Winter droughts can be pretty tough on plants up by us.

Unfortunately - if they already planted bermuda grass - they will never be rid of it.
One cannot get rid of bermuda grass easily

And isn't this property primarily wooded... who would recommend bermuda for shade anyway... on the bright side, the shade will help keep the bermuda under control...

And I think buffalo grass prefers full sun as well? It might not do so well in the shade.

I know you already told him to skip the grass... perhaps he could try moss - he would love that ....

What is the soil like there? And is it shady...

The bermuda was just planted in the late spring and most did not germinate. It's in the beds as well, but round-up seems to kill it easily.

Yes the property is primarily wooded. The whole subdivision was a woody wonderland that man decided to convert into lots with homes. And hey, Burt Reynolds owns land there!

All I can tell you is Ted put down the bermuda grass. He's supposed to be a landscaper.

The other house they had down there had moss. Dad spent years killing it. And we had a little concrete pond front and side part of the yard. Lots and lots of tadpoles. Tadpoles are baaaad.

Soil was all brought in, but I imagine it's AR soil, which would be mostly clay with some sandy-ness to it. Back yard gets filtered sun in the morning, shade in afternoon. Front yard gets filtered sun with some spots being shady.

This picture isn't the best....it was taken last fall when the tree guys were there cutting down trees. They're done in this pic (with the exception of wood still left in the yard), all these trees are still there. I think I was wrong in my count, I believe there's at least 8 in the front yard. I can't locate a pic of the back yard. There's at least 6 trees out back, 3 I believe are dogwoods, the rest oaks. Oh and woody lots to the left and right of the photo. Houses across the street with only 1 house that left a number of trees in the yard, the other house has grass. Lots and lots of grass. And some luverly murdered crepe myrtles.

yup, moss is the answer... do some web searching for moss covered landscapes, they are quite beautiful. The gardening by the yard show just did a piece on moss lawns on Saturday.

http://www.mossacres.com/

But for people who want their lawn to look like the cardboard cutout that is everyone else's generic postage stamp lawn then he really should be planting a fescue mix. His most wonderful landscaper can fix him up with a great fescue mix... hopefully he does a better job at picking a fescue than he does with the bermuda. :-P (And fescues require periodic overseeding because they don't tiller and spread like KGB or bermuda)

And the usual seed prep is core aerate, fertilize, slit seed and water, Yadda Yadda Yadda... Did the tree removers do any pruning on the existing trees. One way to get grass to grow on a wooded lot is to selectively prune the canopies of the trees to allow more sunlight to get to the ground.

Even shade tolerant grasses, really prefer as much sunlight as they can get. The shade tolerant grasses just tolerate shade - they don't "thrive" in it.

By golly, you nailed him!!

I agree, moss would be the best choice. But I know my dad and moss would never be his choice. I will though, send on the link to him. The trees are what I call typical timber trees, in that they are were tall and thin when the house was built. They have now grown a bigger trunk, but the majority of the branches are way up there. At least 2 trees are missing the top due to storms. They did a little bit of pruning, but it was more to get off the lower stuff that suckers out and along the trunk.

I didn't get to meet Ted. Think that was intentional on my parents part??? :o)

Oops, typing while you were typing.

I guess moss is out. Too bad. Moss would have been great for that site.

I stopped into a nursery one day on my way back to Bull Shoals. They don't carry indigenous, but I didn't know till I stopped. Talked to a nice hippy. He laughed so hard I thought I'd need to call 911. He was laughing because I told him of my parents quest for the green expansive lawn. After his fit of laughter, he said "why does every one come down here and try to plant grass when it simply won't grow?"

I like the guy at that nursery....

It baffles me too, why people feel the need to grow grass, even in places where its not meant to grow...

Status symbol? Shows someone has money because they spend so much on the chems? I have no clue. It really looks odd in the subdivision. I've thought that since I was 18 and first laid eyes on the subdivision. All these trees, right in the woods, lake right there, yet people have these green lawns. Looks ridiculous. Not everybody though. Some have rock instead of grass.

I took a picture of house a block up. This one kills me. They have sprinklers come on around noon everyday. It's for sale. All yours for $400,000.

Wait, wait . . . back up a minute. You can grow moss by mixing it with buttermilk in the blender and then spreading it around??? What ratio? Can I pour this over a stump or rocks? Details, please!

Now, as far as the green carpet is concerned, I think many people are just used to it. It's what they're comfortable with, it's what they grew up with. It's difficult for some to be one of the few on the block to break with traditional ways. Don't get me wrong, I'm all for getting rid of it and I'm slowly cutting away my front lawn, but I'm not terribly creative and I agonize over what to put in it's place. Right now I'm just cutting away and putting in shrubs and plants, but the grass still seems to unify everything. Maybe I'm just not being bold enough. What have you done with your front lawn, Terry?

I like Red Fescue.
http://plants.usda.gov/java/profile?symbol=FERU2

I am surprised that a sub-species is everywhere except AR. It does not say native or introduced.
I did a USDA search on Native Poa's and AR. This will boggle your mind:
Achnatherum hymenoides
Agrostis elliottiana
Agrostis hyemalis
Agrostis perennans
Agrostis scabra
Agrostis stolonifera
Alopecurus carolinianus
Andropogon gerardii
Andropogon glomeratus
Andropogon glomeratus var. glomeratus
Andropogon glomeratus var. hirsutior
Andropogon glomeratus var. pumilus
Andropogon gyrans
Andropogon gyrans var. gyrans
Andropogon ternarius
Andropogon ternarius var. ternarius
Andropogon virginicus
Andropogon virginicus var. virginicus
Anthaenantia rufa
Aristida desmantha
Aristida dichotoma
Aristida dichotoma var. curtissii
Aristida dichotoma var. dichotoma
Aristida lanosa
Aristida longespica
Aristida longespica var. geniculata
Aristida longespica var. longespica
Aristida oligantha
Aristida purpurascens
Aristida purpurascens var. purpurascens
Aristida purpurascens var. virgata
Aristida purpurea
Aristida purpurea var. purpurea
Aristida ramosissima
Arundinaria gigantea
Arundinaria gigantea ssp. gigantea
Arundinaria gigantea ssp. tecta
Axonopus compressus
Axonopus fissifolius
Axonopus furcatus
Bothriochloa laguroides
Bothriochloa laguroides ssp. torreyana
Bouteloua curtipendula
Bouteloua curtipendula var. curtipendula
Bouteloua dactyloides
Bouteloua hirsuta
Bouteloua hirsuta var. hirsuta
Bouteloua rigidiseta
Brachyelytrum erectum
Bromus nottowayanus
Bromus pubescens
Calamagrostis porteri
Calamagrostis porteri ssp. insperata
Calamovilfa arcuata
Cenchrus longispinus
Cenchrus spinifex
Chasmanthium latifolium
Chasmanthium laxum
Chasmanthium sessiliflorum
Chloris cucullata
Chloris verticillata
Chloris virgata
Cinna arundinacea
Coelorachis cylindrica
Coelorachis rugosa
Danthonia compressa
Danthonia sericea
Danthonia spicata
Deschampsia flexuosa
Deschampsia flexuosa var. flexuosa
Diarrhena americana
Diarrhena obovata
Dichanthelium aciculare
Dichanthelium acuminatum
Dichanthelium acuminatum var. acuminatum
Dichanthelium acuminatum var. fasciculatum
Dichanthelium acuminatum var. lindheimeri
Dichanthelium acuminatum var. thurowii
Dichanthelium boscii
Dichanthelium clandestinum
Dichanthelium commutatum
Dichanthelium consanguineum
Dichanthelium depauperatum
Dichanthelium dichotomum
Dichanthelium dichotomum var. dichotomum
Dichanthelium dichotomum var. ensifolium
Dichanthelium dichotomum var. tenue
Dichanthelium latifolium
Dichanthelium laxiflorum
Dichanthelium linearifolium
Dichanthelium longiligulatum
Dichanthelium malacophyllum
Dichanthelium oligosanthes
Dichanthelium oligosanthes var. oligosanthes
Dichanthelium oligosanthes var. scribnerianum
Dichanthelium ovale
Dichanthelium ovale var. addisonii
Dichanthelium ovale var. ovale
Dichanthelium ravenelii
Dichanthelium scabriusculum
Dichanthelium scoparium
Dichanthelium sphaerocarpon
Dichanthelium sphaerocarpon var. isophyllum
Dichanthelium sphaerocarpon var. sphaerocarpon
Dichanthelium villosissimum
Dichanthelium villosissimum var. praecocius
Dichanthelium villosissimum var. villosissimum
Digitaria ciliaris
Digitaria cognata
Digitaria filiformis
Digitaria sanguinalis
Digitaria villosa
Echinochloa crus-pavonis var. macera
Echinochloa muricata
Echinochloa muricata var. microstachya
Echinochloa muricata var. muricata
Echinochloa walteri
Elymus canadensis
Elymus diversiglumis
Elymus glaucus
Elymus glaucus ssp. glaucus
Elymus hystrix
Elymus hystrix var. hystrix
Elymus riparius
Elymus svensonii
Elymus villosus
Elymus virginicus
Elymus virginicus var. virginicus
Eragrostis capillaris
Eragrostis curtipedicellata
Eragrostis elliottii
Eragrostis frankii
Eragrostis hirsuta
Eragrostis hypnoides
Eragrostis intermedia
Eragrostis lugens
Eragrostis pectinacea
Eragrostis pectinacea var. miserrima
Eragrostis pectinacea var. pectinacea
Eragrostis pilosa
Eragrostis refracta
Eragrostis secundiflora
Eragrostis secundiflora ssp. oxylepis
Eragrostis spectabilis
Eragrostis trichodes
Eriochloa acuminata
Eriochloa acuminata var. acuminata
Eriochloa contracta
Festuca paradoxa
Festuca subverticillata
Festuca versuta
Glyceria arkansana
Glyceria septentrionalis
Glyceria striata
Gymnopogon ambiguus
Gymnopogon brevifolius
Hordeum jubatum
Hordeum jubatum ssp. jubatum
Hordeum pusillum
Koeleria macrantha
Leersia hexandra
Leersia lenticularis
Leersia oryzoides
Leersia virginica
Leptochloa fusca
Leptochloa fusca ssp. fascicularis
Leptochloa fusca ssp. uninervia
Leptochloa panicea
Leptochloa panicea ssp. brachiata
Leptochloa panicea ssp. mucronata
Leptochloa panicoides
Limnodea arkansana
Luziola fluitans
Melica mutica
Melica nitens
Muhlenbergia bushii
Muhlenbergia capillaris
Muhlenbergia ×curtisetosa
Muhlenbergia cuspidata
Muhlenbergia frondosa
Muhlenbergia glabriflora
Muhlenbergia mexicana
Muhlenbergia schreberi
Muhlenbergia sobolifera
Muhlenbergia sylvatica
Muhlenbergia tenuiflora
Nassella leucotricha
Oplismenus hirtellus ssp. setarius
Panicum anceps
Panicum brachyanthum
Panicum capillare
Panicum dichotomiflorum
Panicum dichotomiflorum var. dichotomiflorum
Panicum flexile
Panicum gattingeri
Panicum obtusum
Panicum philadelphicum
Panicum rigidulum
Panicum rigidulum var. combsii
Panicum rigidulum var. elongatum
Panicum rigidulum var. rigidulum
Panicum verrucosum
Panicum virgatum
Panicum virgatum var. virgatum
Pascopyrum smithii
Paspalum bifidum
Paspalum boscianum
Paspalum dissectum
Paspalum distichum
Paspalum floridanum
Paspalum fluitans
Paspalum laeve
Paspalum notatum var. notatum
Paspalum praecox
Paspalum pubiflorum
Paspalum setaceum
Phalaris arundinacea
Phalaris caroliniana
Phanopyrum gymnocarpon
Phragmites australis
Piptochaetium avenaceum
Poa arachnifera
Poa autumnalis
Poa chapmaniana
Poa pratensis ssp. pratensis
Poa sylvestris
Poa wolfii
Saccharum alopecuroides
Saccharum baldwinii
Saccharum brevibarbe
Saccharum brevibarbe var. brevibarbe
Saccharum brevibarbe var. contortum
Saccharum giganteum
Sacciolepis striata
Schedonnardus paniculatus
Schizachyrium scoparium
Schizachyrium scoparium var. divergens
Schizachyrium scoparium var. scoparium
Setaria leucopila
Setaria magna
Setaria parviflora
Sorghastrum elliottii
Sorghastrum nutans
Sorghastrum secundum
Spartina pectinata
Sphenopholis filiformis
Sphenopholis intermedia
Sphenopholis longiflora
Sphenopholis nitida
Sphenopholis obtusata
Sporobolus airoides
Sporobolus clandestinus
Sporobolus compositus
Sporobolus compositus var. compositus
Sporobolus compositus var. drummondii
Sporobolus compositus var. macer
Sporobolus cryptandrus
Sporobolus heterolepis
Sporobolus indicus var. indicus
Sporobolus junceus
Sporobolus neglectus
Sporobolus pyramidatus
Sporobolus vaginiflorus
Sporobolus vaginiflorus var. ozarkanus
Sporobolus vaginiflorus var. vaginiflorus
Steinchisma hians
Tridens eragrostoides
Tridens flavus
Tridens flavus var. chapmanii
Tridens flavus var. flavus
Tridens muticus
Tridens muticus var. elongatus
Tridens muticus var. muticus
Tridens strictus
Triplasis purpurea
Tripsacum dactyloides
Urochloa ciliatissima
Urochloa platyphylla
Urochloa texana
Vulpia elliotea
Vulpia octoflora
Vulpia octoflora var. glauca
Vulpia octoflora var. octoflora
Zizania palustris
Zizania palustris var. palustris
Zizaniopsis miliacea

I don't have much lawn left. I have stripped it of the sod, and the front yard I've planted about 10 viburnums (native and non native and too many to list), Catalpa speciosa, Carpinus caroliniana (Blue Beech), Amelanchier laevis (Serviceberry), Cotinus coggygria ('Grace' smokebush), 5 Lindera benzoin (Spice Bush), 5 Ceanothus americanus (New Jersey Teas), 2 Cercis canadensis (Redbud), 2 Calycanthus floridus (Carolina Allspice), Lonicera prolifera (Yellow Twining Honeysuckle), Aesculus pavia (Red Buckeye), 3 Joepyeweed (not sure which one), 3 Sporobolus heterolepis ('Prairie Dropseed'), various asters, Vernonia altissima (Iron weed), 3 Aquilegia canadensis (columbine), Heuchera americana (Alumroot), Monarda fistulosa (Wild Bergamot ), Schizachyrium scoparium (Little Bluestem), 1 of the helianthus, and various other perennials I'm not remembering. I've also got from a friend from TN, an unknown mum and an iris. An Arborvitae that came with the house I was told was a Thuja occidentalis, but I've never done a search. I have an obelisk with a Clematis virginiana (Virgin's Bower). Before you think I've got a jungle out there, not yet. We've only lived here for 1 1/2 years. And I bought some, if not most, small plants. I'm talking like my Ceanothus americanus are maybe an 1-2" tall. I think we're going to kill off the grass this fall and seed in the no mow mix from Prairie Nursery. That's what I want to do anyway. Since there isn't much turf left, it shouldn't take much.

UUallus, that's quite a list! Take me a while to go thru it.

NO, NO, NO!!! Horror of horrors!!! That can't be!
Kentucky Bluegrass, Poa pratensis ssp. pratensis is native in AR!
Larry

Way to go UUallace!

Fw87, I have no idea what the ratio is. I buy a few of those little containers of buttermilk and empty one in the blender. Then I go out and find moss that is already growing locally and start ramming it in. I turn on the blender and let it run for a bit. It will froth. That's why I don't put all the buttermilk in at once. Then I add more moss until it's a really pretty sage green. Then I add more and more and then I dump in all the rest of the buttermilk and run it again. If the mix is too thick like creamed spinache, I water it down a little. There's no science to this process. Some people even add beer for the yeast in it I presume but I've never added beer. From there, you just run around and dabble it here there and everywhere. Have fun. I wanna see pictures!

Terry, you've got some great plant material out there! I really need to quit being a wuzz and get rid of my front lawn completely.

Equil, I am definitely going to try the buttermilk moss cocktail this weekend. I love moss and have several rocks and stumps where I'd like to see it grow. Thanks I'd send pictures!