Stem Burn on cutting... not getting any roots

I am in a similar boat as you Don. I saw the posts about stem burn in the "not growing roots thread" and knew that was what was happening to my cuttings. I had already pulled the pea gravel back from the cuttings because it seemed to be what was causing the problem. I then took the one that looked the worse and was more shriveled and soft where the pea gravel was and cut it in the middle of the shriveled area... all white throughout and my poor baby bled tons on white sap. Now, does anyone know if these may be viable still without re-cutting and just correcting the problem by removing the pea gravel. Will it firm up again once it does not have the offending heat source of gravel. They were in the sun yesterday with temp right at 100. i have them on a heat pad at night and the pots stay very warm all night. They are in 1 gallon pots. Here is a picture of a stem that actually looks better than the one I cut and the middle of the cut section. They are both very soft where they are shriveled.

Tammie

You must cut back to good clean wood
Leave absolutely no trace of rot as it will return if you do
Sterilize and wipe your knife /shears before each cut with a paper towel and alcohol or bleach to kill all pathogens.
Let her recallouse, apply rottone with fungicide and pot her up
Back to step 1 again. ;^)
Sink her into about 1 inch of soil in a black pot out in the sun on concrete or blacktop
Cover her to the dirt with a paper towel if its too hot so she wont burn again.
Too much water will do that as well as the sun.
If there arent any roots it cant drink.
Keep us posted

Thank you,,, definitely not too much water. I keep them under the patio at night and when it rains. I potted it 9 days ago and have not watered since.. the dirt has stayed slightly damp... probably due to the rain and humidity earlier this week.

This means I should cut all that show sings of the stem burn? Eventhough there is not brown anywhere inside? Just want to make sure before I start butchering everything.

Tammie

Hi Tammie,

Remember to let your cutting dry for two weeks in a cool place before repotting.

Don

To be honest i am not sure that is from the rocks..
I have many plumies with and without rocks..
I have some on my roof @ 135 degrees..
I have seen this on either case with or without rocks and since there is no roots
i say it's rot and not burn...
Burn is burnt and you will see some roots but it turns brown from heat source but not
shrunking in like yours..
Like i said i seen this on both issues so i believe it's the type of plumie you have or a water issue..
Throw in some more perlite infact go heavy with it next time..

I used 2/3 perlite and 1/3 potting soil. The bad area is just where the rocks were and the part that is in the soil is perfectly normal and firm. there is no brown or rot anywhere when I cut in the middle of the shrunken area, just white and milky. I had the rocks about 1 inch deep. They got rain water when they were planted and nothing since. Soil temp is being kept about 85 using heat mats at night and out in the hot sun during the day. I have not even been misting them because the humidity has be in the 30 -40% range. Very humid for this area. I will let you know what happens. I have cut some and are going to let the new ends calous. I also am re planting the bottom halves since they appear healthy.

Tammie

Well, I think it is desiccation. I've had this happen to cuttings when the heat was very intense, and it has happened to me a few times this past summer. I just received a couple of plumie cuttings from a friend in Texas a couple of days ago, and within a few hours of arriving, they started to show that desiccation. I cut the tips off and grafted them, and I stuck the remaining stumps in water to see if they root, but I doubt that they will.

The reason that I think it is desiccation and not rot is because of the way it looks inside. Other growers in Arizona and Texas have reported this burn from pea gravel. Even though Plumeria 101 recommends it for rooting cutting, I have counseled against it over and over on this forum because of the reports of burn. The gravel heats up so much that it burns or sucks the moisture out of whatever it touches. The tissue cannot take temperatures that hot. Misting and humidity probably cools the rocks and rehydrates the cutting before this happens if you live in Florida, but after it happens, the only thing you can do is recut above it and start the rooting process again or graft.

I have to disagree with my dear pal Michael that watering too much does this. Watering too much may cause rot in cooler conditions, but it does not cause desiccation. This looks like desiccation to me. You people in Texas and Arizona are going to have to ignore the advice we give you when we tell you to put your cuttings in full sun. Part sun, filtered sun, or morning/late afternoon may be better if you live somewhere where the sun is very strong. Misting daily or watering daily is beneficial to the rooting process as long as the temps are high. My cuttings get watered every day.

Thank you Clare. That is exactly what I thought it probably was. The rock got hot and pulled the moisture out of the area next to the rocks. I have cut and am letting the ends calous before planting again. I have left the ones that just barely have this happening alone, just removed the rock and misted. We will see what happens. I would be the reds that got the worst of it. Live and learn.

Tammie

I hadnt considered dessication, I looked and brain said rot maybe burn lol!!
I have taken dessicated cuttings and stuck them in ST and water overnight to find they drank about 1/4 cup of liquid and were rock hard the next morning.
Then I grafted them lol!!

Malestrom, when you soak your cuttings in ST, what is your solution? I am assuming you are talking about Super Thrive.

I had a similar situation happen, but with a rooted plant. I plant several of my plumerias directly in the ground in the pring and then dig them up with a root ball in the winter and put them in the greenhouse. I had this one plant that I wanted to try my hand at grafting. I likeed its shape, it had three nice branches that I cut to get three nice cuttings and still have enough branch to graft onto. I wanted to make a multicolor tree. I dug it up and put it in a pot because it was crowded where it was growing.


I took it and put in partial sun - intending to keep it there until I was sure it would not suffer any transplant shock. I've noticed that the stems where they branch from the main stem, about half way up, feel rather soft. The outside looks ok, but it just doesn't have that firm feeling of a healthy plant. Now I am afraid to cut the branches. Any advice.

Anyone else, feel free to chime in.

I fill a vase with water and dump some ST in Yes Super Thrive. ;^)
Im not concerned with 1 drop per gallon etc...
its pretty harmless stuff and it works great.

This message was edited Aug 19, 2006 10:25 PM

Michael, yes, it occurred to me that you probably thought it was rot when you said that too much water does this. I thought it was rot too at first glance until I saw the second picture with the white inside. I've seen pictures of that burn too from people on this forum who live in Arizona. That is why I always tell people not to use the pea gravel, but I think that the plumies in the hottest states are the ones at risk for this.

Josegabriele, I've only seen desiccation happen with cuttings. It shouldn't happen with rooted plants.

Well i am going to say this.. i don't have a problem with rocks as i do not use pea gravel but rather white gravel which by the way i shot with my laser gun and the temp was 89 degrees..
Today it was 95 with 93% Humidity and the roof was 141 degrees..
I don't think many peeps are getting hotter then that..
Did you all see my pics of my seedlings my delicate seedlings?
They all have the gravel in them..
I use this for 2 reason and 2 reasons only..
The rocks keep the pot stable and the rocks keep the rain from washing the soil on the cutting or exposing the rootball from soil erosion..
Maybe it is a weather deal so i can only tell you what works down here..
You might want to play it safe and go with Clare said..
Also while she is in the pot you can always spray pruning tar around the base it won't hurt anything or throw some coco mulch around the base surrounded by the rocks..
You guys in dry areas really should use these rocks IMHO it will slow down the evaporation of the soil..
You could always put another small plant next to her so the sun doesn't hit her base directly..
To each his own so post what works for you so others may learn..
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/2659/200608060355bbt2.jpg





This message was edited Aug 20, 2006 1:07 AM

lopaka, our temps are about the same except yesterday it was 100 but our humidity levels are way different. Ours runs in the teens or 20's most of the time. This week is a rarity with it between 30 and 45%. I think that may be the difference. Humidity. such a simple difference we sometimes forget to take into account. It is 1:20am here and the temp is 79 but at least the humidity goes way up at night right now.. it is 58% and feels miserably humid to me. LOL I am definitely open to learning and getting it right. As the saying goes, if at first you don't succeed, buy more cuttings!

Tammie

LLasa, I would kill for your high humidity levels, they sound perfect. It is shortly before 8 a.m. here and out temp is 81 degrees, humidity is 89 (sun is shining) and the dew point is 77.
Just a bit soupy in my jungle !

It looks like all but 2 of my 8 cuttings were too damaged from the stem burn. That is what I get for following directions. LOL I will never use pea gravel on the top again. I just pack the mix around them tightly. Will cuttings root over the winter? I mean, just pot and put on bottom heat and forget until spring? Just wondering. It looks like I will have to wait until spring to start again. I do have 3 new cuttings that I gave the right start to last week. Now, if it will just stop raining every day... it just started. Luckily, my mother called and warned me, I got them out of the area just as it started raining. They are sitting on their heat pad until the sun comes out again tomorrow. We were almost 5 inches behind our regular rainfall amount by the end of July.. now we are caught up and probably getting ahead of our average. Fun.

Tammie

Hi Tammie, I have counselled against the pea gravel time and time again. If you do a search here, you will see my posts in which I recommend not using it. Some people have taken my advice, and some haven't so maybe now others will learn from your experience.

Cuttings will root over the winter, but they require bottom heat and light and special care -- i.e., frequent watering, if on a heat pad, and misting. If you have cuttings now, I would start them now and bring them inside when the temps start to drop below 60 at night for cuttings. Your root zone should be 80 degrees or higher at all times. It is tough to root cuttings in winter but not impossible if you have a heat pad.

I actually have two water bed heating pads with thermostats. I put the sensor down into a pot on the pad at about the level of the base of the cutting and set it on 80. I turn part of my garage into a mini green house with flourescent full spectrum lights on 8 to 10 hours per day and plastic around the area. I have an oil filled heater in that area set for 64 so it does not get cold. It actually keeps my entire garage warm through the winter. It is a big 2 1/2 car size garage but the green house area is only about 1/8 of the garage. My washer and dryer are out there so I have to keep it warm anyway. The first year I lived here it got down to -1 and everything froze! That was 17 years ago. I have learned a lot since then. I started the green house thing about 3 years ago with my hibiscus plants... they bloomed all winter! It will be no problem taking time to take care of them since I am pulling old blooms and watering palm trees anyway. It got down to 64 last night here... that is COLD for this time of year but we have had a lot of rain the past 2 weeks. I keep them out of the rain and on heat pads and put them out in the sun as soon as it shows up every day. I hope enough survive to even make it to the winter. Repeat... NO PEA GRAVEL... I just followed the link to plumeria101 where it says to use it. Sorry I was not aware before ... $60 down the drain. I have to get a job soon. Lost mine last week... they did not like my 'personality'. Figure that one out. Guess I smiled too much.

Tammie

Tammie

Hi Tammie, it sounds like you have a really neat greenhouse set up in your garage. Maybe you can post pics this winter and show everyone what you are doing as folks may want to duplicate your conditions. I'm sure you'll have no trouble with your plumerias in those conditions. They might even bloom for you.

It got down to 61 here too last night. That's cool too for this time of year. I'm sure the rest of your plumies will be fine. It sounds like you are taking good care of them. Yes, I am sorry about the pea gravel situation. I wish that Plumeria101 didn't recommend it. I also don't like it because you can't see if the soil below is wet or dry. I've lost hundreds of dollars in plumeria cuttings that rotted on me so don't feel bad. It happens. So sorry about your job.