This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 4:43 PM
UK Brugs
You lucky !!!!!!!!!!
This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 7:25 PM
This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 4:43 PM
This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 7:00 PM
Rita.
Did the seller ship them bare root or in soil.. I hear shipping with soil is a no no, even if you have the poper paperwork. I would keek the brugs by themselves away from other plants until you are sure they dont have any virus of any kind.quarantine. is 2 years I beleive ....
.
This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 4:44 PM
This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 4:44 PM
LOL Rita, quick go back and order more.
This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 4:44 PM
This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 4:45 PM
wow that's great, I think I will try it and see what happens.....
Yippeee so glad they got through....
Keep us updated on how they do...
:o)
Dee
This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 7:25 PM
:)
This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 6:56 PM
wow!! What a hand slap.....
Rita you need to go in and edit out your post before someone reports you.....LOL..
This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 7:26 PM
Rita ..... yooo-Hoooo ~~~~ wakie wakie
*walking away worrying about dear rita*
This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 8:03 PM
I don't think anyone is creating problems. Especially not for her personally. What she did was in innocence. It is how her mistake is interpreted by others that matters. It is not right for others to take what happened to her as a sign that they have free license to break import laws. None of us likes these laws but they are in place for a reason.
It's not like we do not already have access to a gabillion different brugs here in the USA. And it's not like we don't have access to reputable foreign dealers such as Monika Gottschalk and Anne Kirchner-Abel, the legal way.
I know for a fact I'm not alone in my opinions. I'm just the only one to make the public stand. Right will always be right. And wrong will always be wrong.
And that's all I'm gonna say about this subject. :)
This message was edited Aug 14, 2006 6:57 PM
Bless her heart, but unfortunately being ignorant of the law is not a good defense in the eyes of those who enforce such laws. I've heard that some of the USDA representatives are rather too much if they think that a person is trying to get around the laws.
Vee8ch I totally agree with the advice you gave, call them NOW, report what happened and hope the person who handles the case is a "nice" person. Otherwise the problem is only compounded and so are the fines.
Judy
Thank you Judy.
I'd rather have 50 people hate me for the truth than to watch even one person get themselves in trouble because I didn't care enough to warn them. Silence is not wisdom. It only paves the way to future trouble that could have been avoided had someone cared enough to take a stand.
Probably if we all delete our post on this thread the same as Rita has done it would be best.
Several of us Newbies have had to learn the hard way about this. It would be nice if there was some kind of warning about this very subject! Since most of us get started here at Dave's it would be nice to have a sticky or something where we can learn about the laws.
I was shocked to know that each state had its own laws about plants and seeds comming thru the mail with HUGE fines!!!!! Like Judy said being ignorant of the law is not a good defense.
Caren
I'm sorry I disagree.... people need to be warned that it is against the LAW to import Brugs into the USA without the proper approval/quarantine. The laws were made because there is a problem with disease from countries outside the USA, which can spread to more plants than just Brugs. You gave her the proper advice; it is up to her to do what is "right".
Compare this with child abuse, just because you turn your head does not mean that it doesn't happen or that the child won't die.
People on this forum can hate me .. but I believe in obeying the laws of our land or fighting to get them changed.
Judy
Who do you disagree with?
Im all for following the rules but if I don't know about them or how to find them Im going to make mistakes. If we can help those that come after us not to make this mistake than we are all better for it. Im sure this is not the first time this has come up and Im sure it wont be the last.
Caren
Heavinscent,
I disagree about deleting the postings. If we do it make us all part of a cover-up.
Judy
Judy, so true. Not meaning to be part of a cover up guys.
The major point was supposed to be directed towards anyone that knows the laws and yet encourages newbies to break them for the sake of popularity.
I do think it was probably kind of an embarassing thing to happen to the original poster. It honestly wasn't meant to embarass her. For her sake is the reason I've chosen to delete some of my posts. As long as she heard what I had to say that is all that matters. This particular thread will eventually fall by the wayside and no one will pay any attention to it. As far as I'm concerned this case is closed. :)
Unfortunately there is no pleasant way to deal with the import laws situation. You just can't sugar coat it. Facts are facts. If we really care about what happens to fellow brug growers then we've gotta be honest about these kinds of things no matter if it is the popular stand or not. Each time the import issues arise then people should speak up for what's right.
I am so grateful that I don't stand alone. Thanks guys :)
Well a few weeks ago I heard on the news you can now import small plants from countries . Maybe someone should try and find this out it was on Fox news. And it said small amount of seeds were now excepted so the laws may not be broken as you think.
This took effect July 1 it said.
Lavina
Brugs have to go through a USDA supervised quarantine process because the USDA is trying to prevent the spread of a particular VIRUS which will kill Brugs and spread to other related plants as well. Therefore the brug would not be included in the any general easing of restrictions.
Judy
This message was edited Aug 15, 2006 7:30 AM
Considering the viruses and diseases brugs are subject to in other countries I doubt seriously they are on the list of USA import freely plants.
The entire Solanacae family of plants is a nasty disease and virus prone family of plants. When our brug import restrictions first became mandatory in 2002 the main concern was viruses that some brugs are known to spread such as the Columbian Datura virus that wipes out food crops. In spite of the restrictions that virus made it to the USA via brug seeds.
There is more at stake than just a few people's feelings getting hurt. It is about those that covet a brug so badly they would do anything to get it regardless of the consequences. It is our food crops and our USA welfare that is at stake. And the reverse holds true for other countries as well. We are just as likely to export diseases of our own to other countries.
If we continue to ignore the import laws and we continue to do as we please without care then we will eventually lose our rights to import this plant at all. It will serve us right. There are consequences we must face when we choose to make bad decisions no matter if it is illegal imports or in other areas in our lives.
I purchased some Veronica seeds on Ebay from a UK Seller. I didn't know you could import seeds, but when they arrived the package was empty. I emailed her and she sent more seeds, but that package arrived empty as well. It was stamped on the back "opened by U.S. Customs." I knew you couldn't import plants, but it was news to me that you couldn't import seeds. She credited me for the seeds, but the shipping was 3 times the amount of the seeds, and that was not credited. I'm surprised that the Seller didn't know this, as she said she sold seeds to the U.S. all the time. Live and learn.
You can get seeds from the UK why there takeing the seeds is beon me as far as plants go i think its best to just drop it paul
Paul,
Can you please point us to documentation which proves it is not against the law to import Brug Seeds without permits, proper documentation and testing. If you can I sure would like to order some.
Judy
This message was edited Aug 15, 2006 5:06 PM
Ill find Some thing on it allso i know theres a nother new law starting soon not sure how it reads Paul
You should be able to contact the brug groups for education about USDA/APHIS related updates. It is one of their responsibilities to stay on top of things like this.
I personally have not kept up with updates for a couple of years. I've heard rumors that changes are in the air but not positive changes, only more restricted. Who knows? Paul and Sylvia if you guys come up with interesting info and you can lead us to the facts it would be a big help to everyone.
''I've heard rumors that changes are in the air but not positive changes, only more restricted.''
That's scary stuff LOL But I am sure its done in the best meaning :) Brugmansia having virus are a potential threat to the food crop industries. They can contaminate crops such as potatoes, tomatoes, green peppers and a lot of other food crops. If I should have to make a choice, that I could either only grow Brugmansia or only grow food crops, I would prefer the food crops. Nothing is as nice as a new potato in melting butter.
Also, don' t forget, that lusting after European hybrids might be over sooner than we can imagine :) Already now many of Monika's seedlings are under evaluation or already named in the US, so in the next years it should be possible to have a broad variety of hybrids with top quality genes :) There will be plenty to satisfy the want for new stuff and also an entire new genepole for hybridizers to work with.
Tonny
There's lots of Euro brugs, "from many sources", all over the place. In reality there isn't much more that we can import or even raise from seed that is much different from what is already available to us. Everything at this point has a look-a-like. Even the colored doubles.
Edited to add ... We also have our own USA hybridizers with their own quality crosses in trial. What we see on the brug forums doesn't account for even a third of what's going on in the USA brug world. Quite a few hybridizers do not frequent forums of any kind or belong to any brug group.
Heavens to Betsy there must be a billion redddish pink singles out there. Poor Frosty Pink lost the look-a-like competition a long time ago ... ha! ;). Within the next two years brug growers won't have much to work for. The doubles will be just as common here in the USA as everything else already is.
Sooooooo in my feeble opinion .... Our next step should be disease and virus resistant brugs. The same as there are resistant tomatoes and tobaccos. If the more knowledgeable would get involved in that part of brug research, and succeed, then brugs would earn more respect from the governments of many countries and not be treated as a trash plant. This has been my point of view for many years. But that kind of research stuff takes more brains than this girl's got for sure lol! Takes more interest than I have too :)
This message was edited Aug 17, 2006 4:34 PM