Natural remedies for high pond ph?

Is there a way to reduce the ph in my little water garden? It's about 4x6ft and 3ft deep....

Where does the ph come from - tap water? How high is it?

Is this a sudden jump in ph ,or is that the norm. My ph runs high normally and has for several years.

I first checked it in June and it was perfect balance (used those test strips you dip in and then compare to bottle). Didn't check it again for a while since it was in such good shape, but I think it's probably a gradual increase. The tap water I filled it with sat for several days before I added plants and fish. I started with six little goldfish and I now have only four.... never found carcass on the other two so I assume a bird or cat got those. The others seem to be doing fine. My nitrate and other test strip things are all in the "good" to "ideal" range. Having SOME string algae but not excessive as last year. Plants are all doing well except for some yellowing on the water hyacinths. I don't add tap water unless it gets really low. It was getting low and I was about to add some water but we got a good rain that filled it back up.
Gail

muratilc acid is what I use, but that is because my well wateto is a very high PH.
Add a little at a time each day and monitor the PH. Dont try to do it in a day.
Rain water off some of your rock could also cause the PH to go up.

Well it's not rock, it's a molded plastic faux rock thing... (hey, it was FREE!). I went out and took a couple of pics and noticed one of my water hyacinths is almost dead! I thought you couldn't kill those things except with frost....
view 1

view 2

See the dying hyacinth in the lower left corner?

You can just barely see one of my goldfish, too....

This message was edited Jul 30, 2006 8:29 PM

Maybe I have too many plants in there?

How pretty. You even have thalia dealbata in there. I have some that is blooming right now.
I dont suppose there any bricks or mortar in or around the pond. Lime can leach out and change the ph.
Perhaps it is the pond heating up causing the ph shift. You say you tested the water and the ammonia/nitrites are okay?
If you decide to change the ph, do it slowly. Fish are fairly tolerant to different ph levels if given time to get used to it.
Do you run your filter and pump around the clock? Plants are a good thing in the day time, they release oxygen but at night it is reversed and they use oxygen.
Are you testing you water at the same time? You will get a different reading in the morning then in the afternoon.

rylaff (et al), thank you for your interest in my problem. I haven't gotten to see the thalia bloom yet, but I like it anyway. I've had it since last summer and overwintered it in the pond but don't really know anything about it. I did see one bloom somewhere else and said "wow, they bloom?" LOL

I don't have any bricks or mortar in/around it, but I have a couple of clay pots in there, one upside down to set the thalia on and one with a plant in it. Clay pots wouldn't leach lime, though, would they? Could be the heating up part, I guess, but it's on the west side of the house so is shaded all morning and then has a blast of full sun for 3 hours or so and then it's shaded by trees on the other side of the driveway (this bed is right beside the driveway on "my" side). My strips test nitrate, nitrite, hardness, alkalinity, and pH level, and all are in the safe/ideal range except alkalinity and pH, which are both high (alkalinity is close to 300 ppm and pH is at or near 8.4). The bottle says alkalinity should be 120-180 ppm and pH between 7.2-7.6. I do run the pump 24/7 but I haven't checked the time I tested. Maybe I should check once in the a.m. and once in the p.m. to get a better idea of actual. The test strip bottle also says to just add their Pond pH Increaser or Pond pH Decreaser to adjust, but I haven't gotten that yet. I didn't know the thing about the plants! The whole surface is covered with plants, so do you think I should remove some? One other thing.... the bottle says to store at room temp and it's been outside in the 90+ heat.

Gail

Your ph is 8.4? Well, that is my norm in my pond. Test it in the morning and then again in the afternoon and see what you get.
I have quite a few plants in my pond but maybe not quite as many as you. Also I have basically three filters and my water turns over at least once an hour. I have a mechanical/bio filter with a built in UV light. I have filtration by vegitation in the top of my pond. And I have a bag of charcoal that sits inside one of my water features. The water runs through that.

Good morning! That makes me feel better if yours is that high normally, but I had water hyacinths and water lettuce in there last year but they did better than this year. I've removed most of the water lettuce this year because the outer leaves were yellowed and now the water hyacinth is looking bad, so I though the high pH might have something to do with that. One reason I packed it full of plants was to help with the string algae. I had it BAD last year and wanted to avoid that mess if possible. A little bit is normal, I know, and I can deal with a little. Even with all those plants I still have some.

I have one pump (can't remember the gpm) but it has one of those cylindrical plastic mesh filters attached to the end of the pump. I probably need to change/clean it, too, but the water flow on the "falls" seems to be pretty good so I didn't think it was too bad clogged up or anything.

I'm about to take the dog out so I'll check it right quick and see what kind of reading I get in the a.m.

Your pond looks beautiful! So natural looking, and I love your rocks, they're really nice. One of these days I'm going to get rid of this plastic mold thing and put in one like that, but not this year!
Gail

I don't know if this is much help but the remedy for ponds, dams and pools that went green was a bail of barley straw. This was a pretty cheap option where I came from, I don't know how practicle that is going to be for you, I have used it befor with a good result. Rita.

Yeah, I think I saw something called a barley ball ?? Is THAT what those are for? LOL I've been so busy building my daylily collection that the pond is just kinda "there".... so I really don't know as much about it as I should.... I don't even know the names of all the plants that I have in there! :-(
Guess it's things like this that will force me to learn! LOL
Gail

About Barley --- Green water, free floating algae and string algae is killed by the hydrogen peroxide that barley produces after the barley has been in flowing water for 4 to 6 weeks. You can skip the barley bit and go straight to H2O2 (hydrogen peroxide) at the rate of one pint per 1000 gallons of water. Cheap, fast, adds oxygen to the pond,and is fish and plant safe at that rate. However it needs to be repeated, whereas the barley, once established, continues to prevent algae from growing. If you do treat with H2O2 be prepared to do a lot of filter cleaning. All the algae dies quickly and you will want to get it cleaned up. Try spot treating with H2O2 until the barley starts working.

I noticed that suggestions when I did a DG "search" of Water Garden forum threads. How interesting! I don't have excessive algae (isn't a little bit actually good?) but may try to reduce it some with that.... I've removed probably 20% of the surface floating plant material (especially the bad looking water hyacinths and all the remaining water lettuce) just so the decomposing plant material won't mess the balance up even more. I will be changing the filter in the next day or so, and I'll check it again. This morning's readings were fuzzy to my sleepy eyes but looked about the same to me. I may add another pump and filter to a spitter to circulate the water a little more, too.

Think those things will help?

One reason I asked about the storage of the strips (where it says to store at room temp and it's been outside under the carport in 90+) is because the pad that shows alkalinity goes from a gold color to a moss color then proceeds darker and bluer to a dark teal color, but mine is turning REALLY blue and not so much green, so it's hard to know how accurate it is.

Gail

I wonder if the heat messed up your strips.

I was wondering that, too, rylaff. It says to store at room temp and it's been WAY over room temp outside, even under the shaded carport. Maybe I should just buy a new bottle of test strips and throw those out !! LOL THEN I'd know for SURE if the pond pH is off.

I went by Lowe's (which is where I got the test strips, and come to think about it, THEIRS were outside, too!! I ought to say something to them about that, huh?) and they didn't have the Pond pH Increaser or Pond pH Decreaser !! I told the guy I got these strips here and you don't carry the other products? He said he'd speak to the garden center person about getting some.
Gail

Well, I'm now wondering if poor circulation could be the cause. When I went out this morning, my waterfall piece was not "falling" !! I pulled the pump up and my filter was terribly clogged! The circulation was practically nil, so I can't help but think that is a component of the problem. I cleaned it and put it back and WOW what a difference! I didn't realize how slow the flow had gotten until it was all but STOPPED. LOL So I'm going to hope that over the next few days the eco balance lines out! 'Ya think?
Gail

Could be. And with the weather being so warm, definately could affect things.

Well, I know before, it was perfectly balanced! I was amazed the first time I tested it and it was all good. I just put this thing in last summer, and only had plants last year. This spring, I cleaned it out, put in fresh water, added my overwintered plants back (plus a bunch more) and after a couple of days, I added the fish. I didn't test it until it had been going like that for a month or so. I've lost three of the six goldfish, but the three left seem to be doing well. And I don't know where they came from, but when I cleaned it, I noticed quite of few snails, and I tried to keep as many of them in there as possible (the leaf debris in the bottom was terrible!). I think I'm going to put some netting over it this fall to keep those leaves out!

Thanks for all your help!
Gail

Decaying organic matter in a pond bottom is a definite situation you want to avoid. Net out any and all leaves right up until the water freezes. Then go after any stragglers at the first thaw. In zone 7a I think your winter freeze is probably pretty short, which gives those leaves a lot of time to decay. How big a water change did you do? It isn't necessary, and can be harmful, to do a complete change, 25% is usually sufficient. Right now would be a good time to vacuum up the bottom. Decaying debris can upset the Ph. The worst thing it can do is to provide an anaerobic breeding ground for bacteria that cause fish diseases. If you stir up a deep layer of anaerobic gunk, it quickly consumes all the pond oxygen to become aerobic and you can have an instant fish kill. Definitely clean it up, but vacuum. Make sure you have plenty of well oxygenated water flow (surface agitation with 2 to 3 times an hr. turnover). The snails (which came in on your plants) overwinter easily, and they can help keep the aglae down a bit. Ain't ponding fun! There is no end to the different ways you can find yourself spending your spare time, and your spare change. LOL Yesterday I was up to my chest in my pond with the koi nuzzling my legs and the goldfish exploring my shorts while I did a bit of cleanup myself.

Baking soda helps bring down the ph.

Wow, I didn't know that! Guess it's like peroxide... good for LOTS of stuff! Thanks for the tip! I've only checked it once since cleaning the filter, and it was really too soon to tell. I need to check it in the morning and see how it looks.

One thing I love about Dave's is you can check back on the thread where you posted stuff and keep track of when you did something!
Gail

Tortoise keeper,
Are you sure baking soda will keep PH down and not the other way around?? I hel redo a pond and O added too much baking soda and the pond guy told me the baking soda was too much and to hve 50 % water change. Happy ponding !! Bellie