How do I prevent butterfly murder?

My future step-daughter, 5 years old, really likes to catch butterflies and moths. I've tried to prevent this by explaining that in catching the butterflies/moths with your hands that you are likely to damage their wings to the point that it'll result in their deaths, and the idea that it's better to watch them go about their business then it is to possess them. Unfortunately, she is one that believes in possession. We're going through the same thing with trying to get across the idea that flowers should stay on their plants until they have gone to seed. But, the killing of creatures bothers me way more than the loss of my geranium bloom. Does anyone have any ideas on how to prevent her catching them or allow her to possess them in a way that doesn't harm them?

put your foot down and tell her she is not allowed to do it at your house or pick your flowers or she will be given a time out. She will understand that. She is old enough to understand that she is harming it. She sounds very spoiled and use to having her own way lol

I've only had her for about three months, and in my opinion her mother taught her some very bad habits. That's what I do basically, but I'm trying to find a way that is more pleasant for her and diverts her interest rather than mandating that she not do it. I think she has gotten the harm part, finally, but she still wants to catch them and the to side conflict.

How about raising some cats so she can see the whole process? Karen

You might trying to raise a few butterfly host plants and see if you can teach her how to raise butterfly's from the cat to the butterfly.A great adventure she could share with her class mates and learn a real respect for the little fragile things.If your interested I'd be happy to send you some milkweed seed.
Don
P.S.good luck on trying to change human nature We all covet the beautiful things we see,and have to be taugh how fragile most things really are.

What is involved in raising cats?

well,if you want to start out simple.First identify the butterfly's already in your area.Then research what are the larva host plant they use to lay their eggs on.Grow several of that plant.That will in time get you the cats,now you have to decide if you want to rear them in nature or help them along by raising them in protected captivity.I use an aquarium and have little 4" potted larva host plants that fit in the tank nicely.When the cats get big enough to relocate in my outside butterfly cage then they go out into it.They continue to feed and then turn from cat to chrysalis to butterfly.
What a great life's adventure to share with a SD. You can take it slow and make it very affordable.I've often seen leaky fish tanks for the taking,just post or ask on the H/B forum your looking for seeds or plants,and a good camera so your S/D can share with her classmates and us.
Your already at the place where your questions can be answered by folks more than welling to help.
Hope you get started
Don

.. zhinu/Laura ..

Jes maybe .. subjecting her to a few of these web sites may (awaken) and encourage some more positive interests .. in nurturing and sustaining 'life' for the critters and your plants.

These web site links, are geared for the education of children. And a few, are interactive .. Of course .. for {us} children of all ages! .. hee

Insects in the Classrooom .. Lepidoptera .. Here > http://iitc.tamu.edu/IITC2002-2003/IITC2002/Lepidoptera_Fun_Facts.htm

And .. here > http://iitc.tamu.edu/IITC2002-2003/IITC2002/Order_of_the_Month_Lepidoptera.htm

EEK! (luv the name!) .. It's the Environmental Education for Kids! .. CritterCorner .. Here > http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/caer/ce/eek/critter/index.htm


My First Garden, a guide to the fun and clever world of gardening .. Here > http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/firstgarden/


* The Great Plant Escape ..

Here > http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/gpe/index.html


IF you guys contemplate any 'nature' shopping for kids: take a peek at a couple of these wonderful lil offerings also .. from MagicCabin.com (ex: the critter box & net, & the nature study kits) Here > http://www.magiccabin.com/productCollections.asp?section_id=0&join_key=247&sc=1004&body_sc=1004&gc=333496&clnm=Featured%20Collections

A plethora of informative and helpful goodies, and with a wee-peoplers 'eye-view': Just For Kids, from the University of Illinois Extension .. Here > http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/kids/index.html ..

* THIS lil diddy (associated to the ^ above ^), & requires the Macromedia Flash Player > http://www.urbanext.uiuc.edu/insects/01.html .. sure nuff taught, & refreshed my ol pea-brain .. with a wonderful lil batch of stuff about our insect world !!

Jes hang in there .. and, remember, she's a mere wad of precious 'puddy' that you may can assist in contributing to form into an awesomely responsible, caring and loving adult.

I wish you well, and much happiness ..

((huggs))

- Magpye

"Life is not measured by the number of breaths we take - but by the moments that take our breath away."

BTW, the thing about touching butterflies with your hands damaging their wings? That's mostly a myth.
I've photographed many butterflies with big chunks missing out of their wings, where birds have tried to eat them but only got a little piece of wing instead. The butterflies seem to have no trouble flitting about as they do.

You don't want to over handle butterflies, but they can still fly with less than half their wing. A couple of links below show where I got that information. Having said that, please realize that I found tons of conflicting information once I started searching. It seems that very reputable sites are still perpetuating the myth. I'd still probaby teach a child not to try to catch anything wild, so as not to set a precedent.

Cite:
http://www.zoo.org/educate/fact_sheets/butterflies/butterfly2.htm
http://www.learner.org/jnorth/www/jn95/migrations/students/881599566.html

Another great teaching/learning site is the North American Butterfly Association: www.naba.org

Beg to differ about any 'myths' associated: for handling, can be very damaging indeed.

Especially from wee tykes and the lil peoplers - for they tend to either run fast in the opposite direction .. or .. go after the 'bugs' with a raw determination!! (LOL)

Along with our being unaware of how many other times that a butterfly may've been handled - pretty much factors into the survival equation, also.

Being blown about by the wind, traffic, etc. .. and having collisions surely take a toll; whether it's from that 'near miss' from the bird or some curious little hands .. or, us wiping our brows or necks in the yardens, then realizing we'd just wiped off a butterfly, unknowingly. (yep, it's happened a time or two). They'll puddle-'peddle' on us human beans and our sweat! .. LOL

There's some distinct differences between a loss of scales from the wings, and any damages to the wing structure - which can enable/disable continued flights. Ultimately, both can and do prove detrimental/tragic for the flutterbyes.

- Magpye

Sorry, I guess I needed to rant, because this came out. It might explain a little of what I'm dealing with and why I'm looking for cool things that I can do with Sage, so I decided to post it, but it really has little to do with butterflies.

I'm aware it's not so clean cut as touch a butterfly and it dies, but at the age of 5 (at least in Sage's case) things are pretty black and white. So I try to say the most accurate information that fits my needs and can be condensed into a sound bite, and while I don't lie, I do tend to fudge a bit more with Sage than I would if I had raised her from birth. If she asks me to explain what happens and why, or if there is a way to safely handle butterflies, etc... I will give her more information and an explanation that is more shaded in greys.

She hasn't been raised with very good boundaries, to accept or actually hear long explanations (though she will listen to long philosophical discussions when she's trying not to go to bed if she can get me off on one) or the policy of telling your child the truth, therefore she takes things weirdly. This is also why the butterfly thing is so hard. Even though I've stated that she can't catch butterflies, she assumes that the edict might change, so I have to keep repeating it every time it comes up.

We're working on no is no, compliance and debate vs. demand or disregard, and appropriate attitude, but it's going to be a long slow process. Especially because her mother sabotaged our relationship from the beginning. So beyond the normal interpersonal issues that are caused by a child being raised by someone who isn't a parent, by the child not really understanding why this new person is here and why her parents can't just get back togather, and just general interaction between a non-parental authority figure and a child. I also have to mend the damage her mother caused by telling her she didn't have to listen to me, that I was evil, that I'd caused her dad to stop loving her and her mother, etc...

Then throw in that her father wasn't around a lot when she was growing up (Full time day job), her mother had basically no rules or changing rules, and since she's come to live with us we've been imposing rules. Also, though I try to go through her father for disciplining, and he supports any decisions I make (to her at least), I still come across being far more of the stick in the mud. I am the more authoritarian of the two of us, but I'm also the most consistent and forgiving of circumstance. I know that seems like a paradox, but it means that if she has the same circumstances two times the result will be pretty close to the same, but that if the circumstance changes, I'm more likely to accept changing the result than Sean. For instance, I'll enforce bed time even if she's still eating, if she's had enough to eat that day and I think she's stalling, but I'll also accept her getting up after she's gone to bed if she hasn't had a lot to eat, and didn't ask for something before being read to. Sean sometimes lets her stall and sometimes doesn't, but generally thinks that if she were hungry she should have asked before going to bed.

I've been trying the carrot and the stick approach, but it's rare that she gives me a true opportunity for the carrot, and I hate to lower my standards so she can get a taste, because then she might think that that level was good behavior rather than acceptable behavior.

I know this sounds bad, but she can be a little angel, and I know there is potential there. Sometimes it just really hard to remind myself that even a little improvement is a leap forward, and it will probably be years before the seeds I plant now with truly take root, but that if I don't plant them now it will be far harder for them to grow later. Especially on days like today where we were trying to get the house clean because we're having important guests on Friday, and she proceeded to throw a tantrum and trash her room. I don't even know what started it, I was still asleep (I work evening so I sleep in till noon or so), but between then and when I left for work she was in one of her demon moods. "Don't talk to me, I never want to talk to you again." "Don't put my toys there." "You shouldn't have picked that stuff up." "I don't want to play on the computer." "I hate you guys."

I know that it has to be taken one day at a time, create a stable environment, put in place stable rules and stick to them, and slowly you'll see the difference, but it so hard to get through some of those days.

Never been a step parent, but parenting of any kind is very trying at times. Best advice from one who now has two in early twenties and a 20+ year teacher - don't negotiate with a child - lay out expectations in advance. Lengthy explanations for a 5-year old give them too much power. Get with her dad and discuss how you'll handle issues ahead of time. Get some parenting counseling together - it can really help if an outside trained party can look in from the outside and give suggestions - especially since you've had some sabotage... Good luck to you!

This definitely is more in depth than being just about butterflies, and I do not envy you! Zhinu, it sounds like you are a real blessing to come into this child's life. From everything you said you have only good intentions toward her and are thinking things thru rather than just operating on emotions.

Now is the time to turn her around and teach her boundaries. She's having a terrible time trying to handle all of these changes tho so you have to try and not take it personally but always remember that whether she realizes it now or not, it's for her own good.

I suggest getting Tivo if you don't have it and setting up a pass for Dr. Phil! :) He's great at helping parents see things from the child's view and how they are struggling with a situation. Still doesn't mean they don't need a spanking or time out, but you'll see you're not alone.

I wish you all the luck in the world!

Oh, I almost forgot...I agree that touching and handling the butterflies does damage them. She just needs to be taught some self-control and learn that the world doesn't revolve around her. Don't we all? :)