Growing conditions for H. kenejiana

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

My H. kenejiana isn't growing very well. The new leaves are twisted and spotty looking. I don't see any bugs on it and all the plants around are fine. I've been trying to find information on the growing conditions needed for this one and haven't come up with very much. Can anyone help? I'm wondering about whether it likes to be dry or wet and how much light it likes. Carol you mentioned something on another thread once about the leaves curling if there is a mineral deficiency. Would you have any specifics on that? Or should I just fertilize more with a balanced fertilizer? Thanks.

Sandy

Thumbnail by nightowl2

Thanks for posting this Sandy, I also have a new one of these that I could use some info on.
Christine

San Francisco, CA

Sandy, I've had a lot of problems with leaf curl lately myself. H. latifolia is the worst, the new leaves are heavily distorted and for a while the new leaves yellowed and dropped off when they were quite small. I thought it might be some sort of salt buildup in the soil, and I sat it under a slow stream of cool water in my kitchen sink for about 3 hours to leach out the soil. Since then it has stopped dropping leaves, and the new leaves are less distorted, but still not normal. It seems to have improved a lot though, and I'm hoping the new growth point in the picture will be more normal still. I've also had H. cembra, H subcalva, and H. wallichii do what looks like the same thing. I had wondered if temperature made it worse, as the plants looked normal when I got them (they had grown in a greenhouse) but quickly started distorting in my cool house.

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Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

Those are the same things that happened when I had that 'adventure' this last winter with very high salt buildup in my pots from the coir, osmocote and bad karma!! The first thing I did was repot them - rinse the roots and keep the pots flushed when I fertilized. I now fertilize a tiny bit often.

The damage was cellular on my plants...once the mix was changed, the new growth is fine.

HTH

League City, TX(Zone 9a)

I was having the same problem with the osmocote.......I stopped using it on the hoya. Works great in the garden beds though.
I'm using Dyna Gro bloom booster...not that it's caused a proliferation of blooms so far, but it doesn't do the damage.

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

Christine, this has definitely been the slowest to start growing of any of the cuttings I got last fall. Almost all the others have already grown all the way around a 2' bamboo hoop. It's the only one with deformed leaves. I wondered if maybe it was getting too much light.

This plant is 4 cuttings that I potted up last fall. I never fertilized it at all until a couple of months ago. Since then I've only fertilized 3 times with 1/4 strength fertilizer. Could the problem still be a buildup of salts?

Sandy

San Francisco, CA

Probably not, I guess, since you got it as a cutting and haven't used a lot of fertilizer, unless your tap water or soil mix is high in salts? That was my best guess for the plants I had a problem with, but I've never been 100% sure WHAT the cause was. Like I said earlier, the rooted plants looked great when I got them, and started displaying symptoms once they started growing in my conditions, so environment definitely seems to have something to do with it. The things I have tried for the leaf distortion are leaching, changing to a dilute solution of foliage-pro (from dynagro, with more nitrogen), and moving them to a wrmer and shadier spot. At least one of these things, probably a couple together, seem to help.

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

I appreciate your help Mark. I have noticed some salt buildup around the top edges and bottom holes of the pots. It's kind of an orangy colour. I don't see how it could be from fertilizer since I think the plants are probably on the underfertilized side. I wonder if it could be from the orchid mix. I've been adding Schultz orchid mix to my potting soil. It has charcoal and something called Arcillite. The package says it's 'a natural mineral that has been kiln-fired to create a permanent ceramic material containing thousands of pore spaces that hold water and oxygen for improved moisture and nutrient retention'. I notice that the bits in the hoya pots have turned a slightly orangey colour. I think from now on I'm going to just add pure orchid bark cut up into smaller bits and extra perlite to my potting mix.

I was wondering about the light and temperature as well. We're having a bit of a heatwave at the moment. I think it's coming up from California. LOL I took the pot outside and ran the hose through it then put it in the cool shade on the east side of the house. I still wish someone could say if it's one that naturally grows in shade or not.

Sandy

Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

Sandy...did you check the additives to the Shultz's potting soil. So many of them add fertilizer and calcium (like dolomite) to sweeten the soil....

Chowchilla, CA(Zone 10a)

Sandy, here is some info on H. kenejiana.

The plant originates in northeast New Guinea and is found in the trees in low-lying forests, approximately 150 m (492 feet) above sea level. Both the heat and the humidity in these low-lying areas are consistently high throughout the year.

"85 percent of the main island is carpeted with tropical rain forest, containing vegetation that is a combination of Asian and Australian species." "December to March is the wet season, although occasional rain falls year-round." http://www.geographia.com/papua-newguinea/

So basically, it seems to like it wants bright light, warmth, high humidity, lots of water, and lots of air circulation.

My only curiosity is that your plant looks different than what is represented on other sites as an H. kenejiana. Take a look at the photos of the leaves on this website http://www.simones-hoyas.de/Hoya%20kenejiana.html

Good Luck!!!
Ann

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

That's a good question Carol. The Schultz orchid mix doesn't have any soil in it. It only has three ingredients....fir bark 40-50%, Arcillite 25-30% and horticultural charcoal 25-30%.

Thanks for all the information Ann. You're absolutely right about it not looking like the kenejiana in the pictures. Now I'm not sure what I have. Hmmm....it sure doesn't help when you're trying to find information to improve growing conditions.

Sandy

Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

Even when mix has no 'soil'...it can contain additives of nutrients. I would definitely check the pH of the mix you are using...

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

Oh dear....I didn't realize that. Shows how much I know. Thanks Carol, I will have to see if I can track down some of those ph strips.

Sandy

San Francisco, CA

Sandy, please let us know what you find out about your soils ph. I think lots of people have the leaf distortion problem on occasion, so it would be great if we could all keep this thread in mind until we figure it out!

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

Okay, Mark I'll do that. Christine, you said you have a new one of these. Do your leaves look anything like mine?

Sandy

Sandy, I'll check for sure when I get home, as its still in its "baggie-greenhouse" so haven't really seen it since I potted it up, but I think so. Did you get yours from Flora Exotica?
Christine

Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

Sandy...what is the 'average' size of your leaves? can you take a photo of the backs and the front of one...close up. I received one from David Liddle and I will compare...tho' comparing leaves is mostly futile...we shall try, eh?

Aloha

Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

I looked at my H. kenejiana from Liddle: the leaves have a slightly recurved margin...does yours?

Central Point, OR

Nightowl Sandy; The picture of your plant of H. kenejiana actually looks more like the real thing than the photo in the link. I'm attaching a copy of the original type sheet of kenejiana. The flowers that were presented on that web site were sent to me about 18 years ago by Henry Raphael, but whether they should have gone with that plant is questionable. I never saw the plant that Henry grew as kenejiana, so who knows. I do know the plant on that link is NOT kenejiana. This is what Dale Kloppenburg says in "The World Of Hoyas" Pg. 132
"Notice the foliage on this species. The leaves are outspread, narrowly oblong and rather elliptic. The foliage here was copied from the herbarium type sheet of Dr. Schlechter. The leaves are glabrous. With this species we again have a yellow, flat flowered species which has a marginal fringe of pubescence. In cool weather, it will develop some pink undertones which add to the attractiveness of the flower. Flowers are in subglobose clusters of 15-25 flowers. Schlechter commented in his description that this species was similar to his Hoya ischnopus. This latter species has larger, longer elliptic foliage and the fuzzy border of the flowers is more sharply defined. Both have beautiful, buttery yellow flowers. The corona scales of Hoya kenejiana are relatively small, almost horizontal and very waxy. The scales are cupped on the upper surface.
This is a medium strong grower with a climbing habit, leaves a little far apart. Dr. Schlechter found Hoya kenejiana growing in the Galerie forest near the town of Kenejia, New Guinea, thus the name. It was discovered in October 1908, at an altitude of 450 feet. This is one of a whole series of beautiful yellow flowers that are fringed on the corolla edges. As mentioned above, the fringe on this flower diminishes gradually toward the center of the corolla so is not a distinct rim as in Hoya ischnopus.
This species is easy to take care of and requires no special treatment. Being a low altitude species, the plant might benefit from added limestone. Keep it in a relatively small container and give it a moderate amount of light. This species is relatively pest free but watch the new growth for mealybugs. A spray of 70% alcohol should keep your plant clean and free of pests. If you have a hoya labeled Hoya kenejiana compare the foliage here with yours to be relatively sure yours is correctly labeled. It is a known fact that all plants carrying this label are not correctly identified".

Thumbnail by upanatemat3am
Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

Sorry, I was off searching for ph strips and neem oil. I was surprised to find neem oil at the garden centre. They were out of ph kits but said a hydroponics place would probably have that. I had never been in the hydroponics place. Good thing because it turned out to be a bonanza for the products I’ve heard people talk about. They have cold pressed neem oil. I didn’t realize it was like buying olive oil…..and just as expensive. Got a ph test kit and have some of my soil soaking in distilled water as I type. Should be able to get the results in about 2 hours. I was told I should be using a good organic liquid fertilizer so I wouldn’t get the salt buildup. I got some regular and some bloom buster. They even have Superthrive at this store but I’d already spent a bundle so it’ll have to wait until next time.

Okay….the leaves on my kenejiana. I did get it from Flora Exotica last fall Christine. I got an email from Sandy this morning and she said to compare them to the leaves on this site.
http://www.hoyor.net/
I would say they are very much like mine so now I’m not sure what to think. Carol the mature leaves are about 5 ½ “ long by about 2 1/8” at the widest point. If by recurve you mean they come up and then bend back from the centre then I would say yes.

Here’s a picture of the top of the leaf.

Thumbnail by nightowl2
Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

I was busy working away on my message and didn't see yours Ann. Thanks so much for the wonderful information. From the photos on the hoyor.net link I would say mine is like that. I guess I won't ever be totally sure what I have until it blooms. I'm grateful to have some information about the growing conditions the plant likes.

Here's a picture of the underside of the leaf.

Thumbnail by nightowl2
Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

And here's a side view.

Ann, do you think the plant on the hoyor.net site looks like the real kenejiana?

Sandy

Thumbnail by nightowl2
Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

Sandy...recurved margins are when the very edge...the very very edge of the leaf (those are margins) turn down towards the back of the leaf...so when you drag you finger from the midrib outwards, the margin is not smooth.

Your does look like mine...but then leaves tend to look alike.

Carol

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

Oops....of course...that makes sense. Yes, they very definitely have a slighty recurved margin.

In regards to the ph level in the soil, it's 6.5. That should be good shouldn't it if they like the soil on the acidic side? I didn't get the strips. I was told they're not as reliable as the drops.

Sandy

Chowchilla, CA(Zone 10a)

I just want to say thanks to everyone who has contributed to this thread! Keep it up!!!

I don't have an H. kenejiana, but I am so appreciative the information and discussion that has taken place! Wow, we really have such a fantastic group of curious and knowledgeable people on this forum.

Ann

Mine looks to be the same as yours Sandy. Thanks for that link, I hadn't been able to find any info on it - wow, the flowers have such an amazing colour and are so pretty! So, I guess my next step is to visit a hydroponics store and get hooked on their stuff too...sigh.... Next, I'll be using those little clay balls instead of soil...lol... I know, I know, its not really a bad thing... Nighty night everyone.

Christine

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

I agree Ann...I know I've certainly learned a lot. I'm collecting information about each of the hoyas I have and as I was saving all that info about the kenejiana I was thinking that it's like a complete hoya of the month thread. By the way, the one you just did on H. lacunosa was wonderful and I have it in my collection. Thanks.

Sandy

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

I thought they would be the same Christine. I wonder if they have one plant that they take all the cuttings from. The credit for finding that site has to go to sandy130. Thanks Sandy, that was a big help. I was having trouble finding information as well. It doesn't seem to be as common but I love the colour of the blooms as well. Hopefully that is what we have. LOL Yes, I think that the hydroponics store is going to be a dangerous one to enter. I didn't have a really good look around. Sigh!!

Sandy

Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

Yes...from what I have been told 6.5 should be fine...upper limit. I try to get mine down to 6.0 but am happy if it is 6.5.

Abbotsford, BC(Zone 8a)

I am usually on lurk mode here but I agree with Ann, this thread is very interesting and a keeper as there are some hoyas you just dont see enough information on or pics of them.....and I agree with Sandy, great info on your Hoya of the Month, Ann...i love lacunosa....

Of course i spend waaaaaaaay too much time surfing the swedish and french sites looking at hoyas!..Thanks Sandy, glad that site helped you out...

the other Sandy :)

Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

Isn't it nice to think that THEY are surfing the internet to find OUR own forum on DG that is becoming SO SO SO KEWL!!!

Thanks to all that pose the questions and propose the answers...just a beginning!!!

Carol

San Francisco, CA

So Sandy, you've ruled out ph, and I think light should be ruled out as well. Too much or too little light does cause problems, but they don't look like this. I just moved mine to less light to reduce stress on the plant. So we're left with:

1- nutrient deficiency
2- salt build up
3- temperature problem

The salt build up seems unlikely, as you didn't fertilize much, and none of the ingredients seem to have a lot of salt. I'm guessing the arcillite is an expanded clay, like those little hydroponic balls, so it shouldn't have salt. I'll try and look it up. Ditto for the fir bark and charcoal.
Temperature could play a factor, but I think when Hoyas are too cold or too hot they just sulk and don't grow? Anyone have experience with that?
Nutrient problems seem to me to be most likely. It's a real can of worms, when you look at it closely. There are so many trace elements that are required for good growth, and some of them interfere with the plants ability to take up others, or are affected by temperature, ph, salinity, you name it. It's particularly irksome to try and figure it out by looking at a chart of deficiency/overdose symptoms, since many of the deficiencies have exactly the same syptoms as each other.
I tried to narrow it down about six months ago, and came up with a couple of likely possibilities- a deficiency of nitrogen, manganese, or zinc, or an excess of boron or iron. I finally settled on using the dynagro Foliage-pro, which has a higher porportion of nitrogen and the most common micros needed for good leaf production. The formula is balanced to prevent bad elemental interactions.

Long Beach, CA

Has you both ruled out spider mites? They will cause distorted twisted leaves. They are also almost impossible to see, so you must look for webbing, etc.
Just another thought as I looked over this thread.
Marcy

Chowchilla, CA(Zone 10a)

Going with Marcy's question, one way to see if there are spider mites is to mist the whole plant - water will get trapped on the webbing, making it easier to see. Or, gently tap your leaves and stems over a white piece of paper and if any teeny-tiny black or red things start to move after a few seconds on the paper then you have mites.
Ann

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

That is a good suggestion Marcy and there is a great chance of that around here these days. I started growing brugmansias last year.....enough said. That's why I was looking for neem oil having seen a wonderful thread about mixing and using it. That's one of the first things I look for and am constantly inspecting my plants. I have them in a separate room and thought they were safe until a week or so ago when I found two on my cumingiana. Since then I check that plant every day. I suspect it blew in through the window screen which is right next to the plant. I find I can see spider mites very easily when I take my glasses off and put the leaves two inches from my nose. I'm getting to that age.....sigh! Anyhow, that was the first thing I suspected on the kenejiana but couldn't find any of the little bug***s but I guess that can't be ruled out entirely. The new leaves on this particular hoya seem to be very delicate....it's a thin leafed type.

I was just thinking that I did move the plant from an east facing window to the south. Even though I keep the blind so they're protected from the burning sun, it's definitely brighter for a longer period of time each day. I moved it back to the east window.

I agree Mark....it's a real can of worms. I didn't even look at the potting soil bags(I mix 2 kinds together)....I only looked at the orchid mix. I've probably got several things in my mix that could cause salt build up. I read somewhere recently that you should use fertilizer with a higher nitrogen content. The new liquid organic fertilizer I got is 4-2-3. The bloom fertilizer is 0-12-0 and I was told to add it to the other one when I use it. I'll still use it 1/4 stregth I think.

Sandy

Keaau, HI(Zone 11)

I think that sometimes these are mysteries of life! I have had a H. archboldiana for 5 years....and it has never grown a normal leaf...NEVER. It barely grows at all!!! I thought I would make a cutting of it and see if the cutting grew normally. NOPE. There is something in a genetic make up that just doesn't want to grow correctly. H. aff. anulata also will sometimes get totally wierd leaves; color, shape and everything distorted...and then straighten out. Beats me what it is.

Not saying that you have a 'special needs' hoya... Suggest you just keep an eye on it, and see where it goes....maybe foliar feed instead of in pot?

Carol

Campbell River, BC(Zone 8a)

A 'special needs' hoya....LOL Yes, that sounds like a great plan. I've got lots of things to keep in mind now and can make some adjustments here and there if need be and see what happens. If I change too much at once I won't know what made the difference. Most of the plants have the odd weird leaf but in general are growing nicely I think so I'm not too worried. Thanks.

Sandy

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