Big Drainage Problems

Last year we built a retaining wall that's about 60' long x 8-10' deep in different areas. We ordered 20 tons of TOPsoil and it was delivered, only filled 1/2 of the area. This was late last year, we've been waiting for the same guy to bring the rest of the TOPsoil to fill the rest of the wall. I'm cancelling and ordering from someone else. When I first saw the soil when his dump truck went up I knew we were going to have a problem....

This is orange garbage dirt...but it has been screened. There are no rocks in it. It won't absorb any water, it all runs off and down through the wall and now I'm stuck with a mess. The yard below the wall is starting to flood every time it rains, then stays wet for days, turning into mud and a swamp. My plants that are planted in the garbage dirt also show very little growth.

We just redid some of the area below the wall, putting in a much lower wall, and a large bed. We also want to line below the wall with a large mulch walkway. The following pics are what happened to my mulch that was laid last night....from rain this morning and today. I went out to check how things were doing and this is what I found...along with a steady stream of water shooting out from between the blocks of the wall, but didn't get a pic of that. It looked like someone stuck a hose behind the wall and turned it on. What a mess. Look how orange and yucky the blocks are from all the wash away from this dirt.

We did till and add compost and composted mulch to the soil below the wall where these pics were taken...just yesterday...it seems to have made no difference. What do I do now?

Thanks for any help,
Heather

PS...please ignore my spring sowing containers (the garbage looking things! LOL)...they are still sitting around waiting for a place to be planted, everything is out of place now because so much work is going on.



This message was edited Jul 22, 2006 12:41 PM

This would be what that steady stream of water did. Loverly, hmm?

Gee Heather you look like you have a problem. Though all is fixable. # 1 the soil you got is clay # 2 there is no Loam (compost) in it at all # 3 there is no soil structure to the pile that is in there. Also no drainage is provided for what ever the source of run off is and you need to provide drainage for the bed. All your plants need to go back in the pot and get some straw, pine needles, rocks (small), perforated drain pipe 4" or 6", rototiller, Large rocks, and what ever depending on the site of water source. Now that I have shocked you take a picture of the above bed and post it. I need to see up hill.

Were drainage pipes/holes placed at intervals in this retaining wall?

Sorry about your topsoil. I know why they screen it, but I hate it when they do that. Please don't think I'm nuts, but maybe you could grow some serious root plants like daikon radishes closely spaced to give the soil some structure. I know some people leave them in to decompose there as well. If you don't want to dig in organic matter like shredded leaves and straw, I would water w/ some compost tea and plant, if not the radishes, something very hardy that will do well in those conditions, just to get that soil broken up a bit.

crossed posts w/ sofer... jinx.

Well Zeppy we are on the same page. Hee Hee You know heather I agree with Zeppy that that soil stinks. Screened booooooooo! Stick and stones may break my bones but my soil will so love them.

Ok, will run out and take a pic of up hill in a minute...eating lunch now.

I knew this was clay....and no one would agree w/ me. Grrr.

There isn't any drainage pipes/holes anywhere. I'm taking it you're talking about the french drain type pipe?

BTW, when I said the wall is 8-10' deep I meant from front to back, not top to bottom. Maybe I should have clarified that before. Sorry.

I'll be working on pulling all the plants out and replanting them in the new front beds.

Are we going to have to dig all/most/a lot of this clay out and put in french drains? I hope not, but if that's the best way to fix it then I guess that's what we have to do.

The BEST part about this is that the guy who brought this dirt....his Mom lives 2 doors down....so she monitors all work we do and tells us how great the dirt is. I want to move.

Thanks for the help...going for pics now.

There are 2 ways to do everything. 1 is the right way and 2 is the easy way. First we need to see the source of water. Then we will fix the problem. I would not plant them below permanently just for the time being.

Here's 3 pics. We are possibly getting more water into our yard than I thought. We live on a corner, so we are surrounded by a curb, but I'm sure the run off from the heavy rain could have been higher than that today.

In this pic there are two storm drains...one across the street by the mail boxes, and another along our property right below the telephone pole. What you see on the road to the left of the stop sign is not water, it is stones and debris left from run off....headed right for our yard. Closer pic of that coming next.

Closer pic of what looks like water in pic above. We had a LOT of rain today, obviously. I'm guessing this water came from below the storm drain or made it's way around it somehow. The storm drain is right above where the yellow and gray curb meet above the mailboxes.

Just a different angle of the whole thing. I've never seen water running down my sidewalk, but when it's raining as hard as it was this morning I'm not often out...but I will be now.

I hope that's the pics you wanted. If not let me know.

Thanks for all the help.

It looks to me that the water is coming from the uphill to the left. I need a shot from the bottom at the stop sign up the hill behind the bed. You bed level is lower than all the area around it and it is a cereal bowl collecting all the milk from above.

Not too much to see there, but here ya go. Long shot....

It's just woods above that. There is an open spring up there, but it's over quite a ways to the right of this shot. I really don't think it would cause me any problems. When taking this pic I did notice the storm drains are really full.

Just another shot from a different angle. The reason for the retaining wall was that my MIL had planted the bank below the sidewalk for years & years...and it was eroding away. Eventually we would have lost the sidewalk.

OK you have a major run off from the hill behind you that is full of water and your bed addition is the lowest spot for the water to gravitate to. Your history of the slope dissapearing to the house side of the sidewalk is the process that was going on even before the bed was placed. You have a major runoff occurring right into the bed you built. I am sure you will not be successful with any simple soil amendment. You will need to start over in my opinion and build a drainage system with retaining wall and french drain to allow large volumes of water to seep into a collection area and sediment out the run off. Your DH and You need to get on the internet and look up solutions to major run off and diversion techniques. Your road behind the bed is 6' above your lawn space and all the water on the road runs down from the hill behind and off to your bed. I see a storm sewer at the stop sign and maybe the county can help with some roadside trenching. Big project!

Thanks for all of your help Sofer, I really appreciate it.

We've done some studying and made some decisions...and I've been corrected in a few things. First of all, the rain yesterday was way heavier than I was accounting for. DH really doesn't think the run off is jumping the curb...but we are supposed to get rain on Tues and I will check everything out then, adding extra water w/ the hose if I have to.

I also know the county won't help w/ anything. I've had a large hole in my back yard where a storm drain collapsed over 7 years ago...it's been reported numerous times and never fixed.

Our solution will be this......
Remove about 2' of clay from the top behind the retaining wall, then remove about 1/3 of the clay from right behind the wall. Stones and a french drain will be put in right behind the wall, then all clay that was removed will be replaced with real topsoil. We have to find someone who has and can deliver actual topsoil, which I'm going to do my best to see and touch before we order it. NOT doing this again!!

Thankfully, only 2 of the 5 parts of the wall are completely full of clay, another is partially full...since Mr. Clay never did bring the rest of the soil we ordered. So, we will use the clay we remove as fill for the other parts of the wall and other places in the yard, then cover them with topsoil as well. Most of our soil here is clay, covered with topsoil, so we are pretty much matching what we have...only it will be covered with more topsoil. Of course the topsoil will be covered w/ mulch.

As far as a collection area....well, we'll see what happens with that as things move along. DH has his plan, and I know what I'd like to see happen...hopefully we'll come to a compromise, or his way will work perfectly. He would like to use the last part of the wall as the collection area, filling it w/ rocks and covering w/ topsoil. I'm concerned that we'll just end up w/ water spouting out of that part of the wall and lots of wash out there. I may not be understanding his entire plan either. I would like to dig a big ole hole under where our large mulch walkway is planned, fill w/ stones, and cover. We'll see how it goes. I just don't EVER want to deal with this again.

Now I've got to go dig up what's planted behind the wall. I'm really hoping that clay isn't too hard yet. I've already worked poor DH so hard the last week and a 1/2.

Thanks again for all your help...please let me know what you think of this plan, especially any flaws you see.
Heather

Good solution Heather and good luck. The only thing is that the water is not hopping the ditch but rather coming down the hill in the soil (roots, soil interface, and spring flows) to the ground behind it. Hug your DH and tell him how special he is.

Gotcha....but, EWWwwwWWW, do I HAVE to hug him??? He is kinda stinky right now from working outside all day.

That is the smell of love hard at work. you betcha.