I'm fairly new to wonderful DG - several weeks now, I think,...Have a very bad case of the Hibiscus Bug, and now have become fascinated by the info. I read here about Brugs. Can anyone recommend a (relatively) stress-free way for a newcomer to get her feet wet w/ Brugs ? Start w/ seeds, a plant, etc.. I'm in zone 5b, so would have to overwinter indoors, as I do w/ my extended family of Hibiscus. Thanks for any suggestions! Polly
How to get started....
Hi Polly.
If you don't want to overwinter a big plant this year, I would wait until late August or September and post, asking for a cutting of the brug you are looking for. Then you can root it and it will grow some over the winter but won't run you out of the house. In the spring, you will put it out and probably in late July, you will get your first big flush of blooms. If you get a cutting now, it will be larger to deal with over the winter, not a problem if you have the room, but it probably won't bloom a lot quicker than a cutting rooted later. It's just a choice that you would have to make. Many people don't like to cut on their brugs at this time of the year, especially if they don't have a lot. Most people in cooler climates will have lots of cutting material available around first frost time. You might even find someone who lives near you that will share cuttings with you. Good luck.
Hi Polly!! Welcome to Dave's! And to the Brug Forum. I love hibiscus too, but I seem to kill a lot over winter. Boo Hoo!
I would get a cutting from above the Y so it flowers fast for you and jump right in!! LOL. If you are a gaud girl like me, you will love them. They are easy too except for the bugs so any way you start will be fine.
I did an experiment last fall and took cuttings from above the Y for most of my plants for this year. Unfortunately, I still have short plants. If I could do it over, I would NOT take cuttings from above the Y. By the way, they don't bloom any sooner than those cuttings from below the Y when you live in our cold temps and have to wait all winter for them to really start growing.
Here are two of my plants from above the Y cuttings and they opened their first blooms yesterday. I don't see much here that excites me.
The next picture will be from an above the Y cutting.
You can tell that this is a much taller brug than those in the above picture. This is just my opinion, but if I'm going to put the time into growing them, I want them to give me more than blooms hanging on the ground. I'm hoping that I'll get some basal shoots from the short ones so I can start cuttings that will grow tall. No more experiments for me with above the Y cuttings. I will admit that this is the only taller one from cuttings that has bloomed, but others will be coming along shortly. LOL!
Hey Polly and welcome! I'm with Kell, jump right in .. why wait? get flowering wood! who cares if the flowers brush the ground. Put it on a pedestal and make it your centerpiece. The only time I take straight, below the Y cuttings is when I know it's going in the ground so it can take it's time working on a good root system that has to survive the winter. I like flowers, leaves are nice .. but flowers are better! Besides it's always a show stopper to see flowers bigger than the plant itself! Lol
X
I think Kells suggestion to get cutting from above the Y is the best idea. I have done this and have had great success with it, in having blooms a lot quicker.
I will be cutting alot of my brugs back in a couple of weeks because they are just getting to big. If you would like some I will be happy to send you cuttings for postage just let me know.
Happy Brugging.
Dee
It makes a difference where you live and the number of days you can grow brugs outside. Polly, you will have to make the choice on what you do and I wish you lots of luck with your brug growing choice. All I wanted to do was show you the difference in above and below the Y cuttings and how they grow in the Midwest.
Seems like it's harder to make a standard from a cutting above the Y. I like good thick trunk cuttings the best. If you want a shorter bush type the above the y works for that. Everyone has their own preferences.
Hello.
This is a very educational discussion for us newbies. Thank you all.
Erick
Well the truth is Polly, take what ever you get to begin with! You usually do not have a choice. So take what is offered and run to your potting shed. LOL.
How lucky Dee is going to share, she has some great brugs!
I prefer above the Y cuttings myself so I can get a general idea of what the bloom is like much faster to see if I even want to grow it. Room here is so tight I must be picky. I find it usually will sucker a great standard in the next year if kept, if I have it in a big enough pot. It may be because I use Epsom salts which cause more shoots of basal canes in roses so I have wondered if that is how I get so many great suckers to make standards out of.
And Polly, no matter where your cutting is from, your first bloom will be such a thrill! General wisdom is you should pick the blooms off cuttings just rooted, but I leave them on to flower. I feel I am so lucky when I get a cutting with the blooming tip intact for they can bloom right away for you. You could easily get a bloom or 2 this year still if you are so lucky to get a few cuttings like that.
Now you will have to show us all your first bloom!
Here is Ludger's gorgeous Dorthea who blessed me with a bloom bigger than itself. I was tickled PINK!! LOL
Awww Jeeze Kell .. you made me drool all over the keyboard.
X
LOL X. I know. Brugs like that make all the hassles worth it. And you know it will just get better. 2nd to 3rd year I notice a brug is at its best or worse. LOL.
I agree with the side shoot method. Sometimes those squatty little Y cuttings just do not make pretty trees. Most brugs do side shoot but some of the brugs I'm growing like Tuffy and Inca Sun and quite a few trial seedlings have not put out side shoots. If you want a tree form then ask the person that you get a Y cutting from if it produces side shoots. If yes, then grab it :)
wow Kell that one is just awsome.........wow and wow again.
Thanks for the photo...........
Polly I can relate to overwintering Brugs inside.
I envy the growers in the warmer zones that don't have to dig up all their Brugs, repot them and bring them inside for the winter.
Although you may want to start out with a couple of cuttings from above the Y in order to see flowers this year I find it is much easier to overwinter them if they are standards.
About the end of August the growers in the colder zones are getting that glazed look in their eyes while looking around the house or basement for any inch of space that might hold a Brug.
A trimmed standard takes up much less space than a 3-4 ft wide bush. Plus you don't have to stand on your head to smell the blooms or enjoy the flowers. LOL
I have a double pink blooming right now from an above the y cutting from last fall. The flowers are so low to the ground that you can't see the inside skirt unless you bend over and pick up the flower.
Well we all know how exciting it is to see your first flower. I had my first brug on a table with blooms bigger than the plant .. like i said, made a great centerpiece and I had people knocking on my door wanting to know what that was in my screened in front porch! It literally stopped traffic!
I guess we should all apologise to Polly now for aiding and abetting a budding brug addiction........Naaaaaaahhhhhh.
X
yes...i picked up a lot of info on this thread....(thanks brugie and others), after visiting a local guy that grows these...still didn't understand why too take cutting later on in fall (he didn't explain) instead of now. thought it was just my regular plant anxiety, haha. thanks - jon
There is nothing wrong with taking cuttings now, if the person holding the plant doesn't mind having plant material removed from his/her plants. My plants need to grow more before they will be able to be used for cutting material.
If you get a cutting that going to bloom and the bloom will hang down to the ground just put the pot up on a table so the bloom dangles.....
Even a some of us older "newbies" have learned from this post: case in point - moi.
I have a question about side shoots/suckers to Kell or whomever will answer. I have cuttings from above the Y (I determined this by their blooming NOW and having little to no stem above soil level) that have put up lateral/side shoots that seem to want to be standards. In other words, these shoots are long and have no leaves except those near the top of the stem. Would it be advisable to air layer them or just cut them off when they get to two or three feet in length? I ask because the two I have doing this are putting out lateral shoots and they are curving to vertical.. a NO NO for a standard as I understand. These two are ones I want to keep and propagate. TIA for your input.
Barb
Exactly Crestedchick .. i can't figure out what the problem is having with blooms on a low plant. That's exactly what I did. When it was time to winter it over, I cut it back a bit and let it go dormant. The following Spring it took off like a rocket!
X
LOL Karyn... do you lift your big heavy pots? My back would break for sure. Mine go straight from overwintering inside to a big pot.
Barb.... Kathleen knows the best about side shoots, and gets great standards from them we have all seen such great pictures from her.
Here is a post from her, 8 posts down on the front porch. http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/409614/
This message was edited Jul 12, 2006 8:39 PM
Hmm, very interesting thread.
Yes Terry, this has become a very interesting thread hasn't it?
Yes David it has. Have you read the hyperlink one that Shelly posted?
That's even more interesting.
As Brugie so clearly pointed out a number of posts back, there are many choices - many/most of them purely personal preference vs. any hard and fast rule - in growing these fascinating and beautiful plants. This is an interesting discussion of some of those choices. Thank you all again.
Kell, I demand that you send me that Dorthea plant immediately, or...well....I'll....ummm....throw a big hissy fit! It is gorgeous, congratulations.
Erick
Hi Polly and welcome to Dave's.
I don't believe that it matters rather you grow seeds or cuttings.......both are fun. The seeds would take longer to bloom but even if you get cuttings now, there is also a chance that they might not bloom before your cold weather. Wish I could give you advice but I am far removed from your zone. Even if you lived in Zone 9 in Calif., your climate would still be different than mine because of great distance of miles and I would be hesitant to tell you what was best. Maybe that is what makes growing brugs so interesting and also so challenging at the same time.
Many people share cuttings and when I first started with brugs, I was thrilled to get whatever I was sent as I know you will be.
I can see that there are people that actually like the short squatty brugs with blooms dangling and touching the ground but I definitely do not and I guess that is just a preference of mine. I have some now that are short and full of blooms and half of the blooms are touching the ground and they stay covered with dirt and are not a pretty site to behold. Rather we have rain showers or I water, they stay splattered and dirty.
I actually like to have a few brug bushes included with the brug trees but I definitely can't wait until the bushy ones grow taller so I can cut branches off of the bottom and at least have them 2 - 3 feet from the ground.
I moved last fall and took cuttings from my yard and some of them were from above the "Y" and some were stalks. The reason I took "Y" cuttings was because those plants were not very large and I had no choice. I planted all my brugs and the ones above the "Y" are blooming and the ones that are 5-6 feet tall are blooming. Just for general information, I did not keep dates on what bloomed first but I do know that within 2 weeks both type cuttings were blooming. I also want to emphasize that this is what I experience in my area and it may have nothing at all with what others experience in their zone.
Polly, you will go through a learning process like all of us here have. You will learn what works best for you from your personal experience but in the beginning those regionally close to you will probably be the most helpful. They are the ones that know all about the short growing seasons and how to overwinter in the extremely cold weather.
Dee (WillowWasp) said she will be cutting back and could send you cuttings and I would definitely take her up on it. Jump in and have fun and keep us posted on how your cuttings are doing. They are truly beautiful flowers with amazing blooms. Good luck to you and have fun.
Hi, All! I must say that this is what I would call an "overwhelming response" to my newbie question! I am so grateful to each of you for sharing your time and expertise. DG members continue to impress me with their generosity and willingness to share their knowledge. I have learned a tremendous amount already. I'm a little confused because i wrote a lengthy response earlier today, which seems to have disappeared. I must have failed to post it, unless - gulp - i posted it somewhere it didnt belong...
I seem to have morphed into a DG junkie in a period of just a few short weeks. My new coping mechanism for my chronic insomnia is to bring my laptop to bed with me, and read until i can't keep my eyes open, which is often just as the sun is coming up and birdies are chirping away!
I will read, and re-read, your suggestions, and try to retain as much info. as my tiny brain will allow. I am definitely interested in taking anyone up on offers of cuttings, be it now, or later in the season. Maybe trying both would help me learn the differences first-hand. I am really excited about trying my hand with brugs, and will try to ignore the many posts warning of brug bugs and other horrors. Surely I'll find out about those in due time....!
Looking forward to many more exchanges with all of you! Thanks, again, for welcoming me so enthusiasically into the fold... Polly
I am so glad we did not scare poor Polly away making this all seem so complicated and such an important factor. Whatever piece you get, a cutting above the Y, that makes a bush, you can get it to grow you a standard too usually if you prefer that. Or if you get a cutting below the Y but prefer a bush form, you can get it to grow you a bush. Or you can even get both, a bush or a standard from 1 cutting if you are willing to wait a year or so! LOL!!! So do not fret!
You are so right Frannie, it is all personal preference. I grow no bush brugs anymore, too messy for me. But I know lots of people love them. Also they take up too much room for my little garden and with standards I can underplant.
Also do not worry about overwintering bush brugs Polly if you like that type. You just trim like them you would a standard so they all fit. I used to do that to get lots into my hoophouse. Clip clip clip is all it takes.
Hi Barb. Your example is exactly why I would never turn away a cutting above the Y evenif yo prefer a standard form. First you get to see the bloom faster and second they make suckers that are great for standards.
They practically always make suckers the next year which you can cut for your standard and you can then toss your brug bush away if you want. I make standards all the time and give them away to my California friends. It is so easy!! And I see from Shelley's thread she dug up I knew how to do it well in 2003 too. LOL.
Though now I have it down to a much easier way......no more airlayering for me, no more bags either. Here is an updated thread if you want to try it.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/554205/
And if you look at the momma Butterfly brug bush in that thread, it was originally from a cutting from above the Y and in that picture it had grown to the roof line and would throw about 4 - 6 ft suckers out a year. No blooms dragging on the ground anymore. LOL
Barb, I am unclear when you say the suckers are growing vertical and you feel that is bad. I would think you would want them to grow upward. I always leave them on the bush or tree till they are the height I want for they grow so fast when still attached to the Mom. Then I just cut them off and put in dirt per that thread above I linked to. Let me know if I can be more clear.
Thanks Shelley for finding that old thread. I had such a good laugh. This is why I love my husband so much. How many men would let this sight be on their front porch out their living room window all winter long so they would have to look at it from the couch every day?? What a guy!! How lucky am I??? LOL! THANKS SHELLEY! I just went out and gave him a big kiss.
It occurs to me that poor Polly is scratching her head and saying Y?
Sorry if you are .. I made a website for a friend awhile back about the Y .. you might find it helpful.
http://www.xeramtheum.com/mysteriousy.htm
X
I think that old thread made several of us chuckle. :)
I think I'll go give my DH a big smooch too. He dug all the holes and planted all the Brugs into the ground that I saw in the old picture and continues to do it to this day.