A few questions from a newbie..(excited newbie!!)

I have some cuttings getting here today from Maui Plumeria Gardens, and am going out to get some perlite to mix with my soiless mix, but here are the two questions:

Everyone wants a branched plumeria ( that I can see reading this forum), but no one advocates just cutting the tip off to get branches-why not?? I saw where one person's plumeria was so large that he cut off a bunch of branches and then documented wk by wk where the new branches emerged, so it does branch from cutting off the ends. Is it because you would lose that years blooms?

The other question was exactly what stem rot fungus does the plumeria commonly get? I wanted to do a preventative drench of the soil before I put the cuttings in, but wasn't sure what fungicide to use? Is it rhizoctonia or pythium ( which is actually a soil fungus, but can root the stem near the dirt) ? They require different fungicides, and I have read all the sticky info at the beginning of the forum, but didn't see anything saying specifically as to what the fungus is.

One of the cuttings I am getting is the Singapore because it keeps it's leaves and I just love that dark green leaf. When I lived on Maui, I always had one of those. Do you think keeping it in the greenhouse will keep the leaves ok? Whats the minimum temps in the grhouse that plumerias need to keep growing at night?

I love the reds, but can't get by the fact that Hawaiians always planted the red in the graveyards!!! lol We always sort of stayed away from the reds in the yards-the dark red anyway...

Thanks in advance for your answers....this is so exciting! Whenever I flew into Honolulu and was waiting for the connecting flight to Maui ( before they had direct flight) I would walk outside and right there they would have the plumerias and I would smell them and know that I was home....

" Is it because you would lose that years blooms? "

That is exactly why......
Also some people don't like the look of the cut ends.

Thanks Dutchlady , that makes sense, it would be a squared off end? Never thought of that! Do you know what the fungus is, or do you have problems with stem rot much?

Hi Tigerlily,

Just two questions? LOL! J/K. Yes, if you cut off the tips, then you may be cutting off this year's blooms. The cut end will branch, but it doesn't look that attractive in my opinion. These are trees and need to be pruned with care to keep the overall appearance attractive and natural-looking. Most people want their branches to branch naturally when flowers occur.

Singapore plumerias are evergreen in tropical climates, but they are deciduous in subtropical and colder climates. It is recommended that you keep Singapores above 50 at all times as they are the most sensitive to cold temperatures. They are also the most prone to Black Tip when subjected to cold and humidity. They are not a suitable greenhouse plant for this reason and almost always get Black Tip in them. The dry, warm environment of your house is probably the best place to overwinter a Singapore in your area, but you will need to get some supplemental lighting to keep it growing throughout the winter if you want to keep it from losing its leaves. Keeping your Singapore above 60 at all times in the winter will probably keep it from dropping its leaves.

Stem rot occurrs when the cutting gets too much moisture. I don't know specifically what the fungus is. Bayleton is used to combat Rust, which is a different fungus, but there is some doubt among the experts about whether a fungicide will prevent stem rot in cuttings. Plumerias, once established with a root system, will almost never get stem rot unless the root system is allowed to sit in water and/or soggy soil that won't drain for a long period of time.

Dormancy is a reaction to shorter days and the withholding of water and nutrients and is a preservation mechanism that the trees employ. It does not have to occur and often doesn't in subtropical and tropical climates. My plumerias live outdoors all year, and most of them don't go dormant at all. It doesn't get much below 40 here. Your greenhouse will do well if temps are kept above 50.

Thank you so much Clare!!! That was very helpful...you just saved my Singapore's life and I don't even have my grubby little hands on it yet!! I will keep it in the house-I have a place in front of 2 doors ( full glass) on the south side that get 5-6 hours of sun in the winter-kind of dry, sounds perfect.

The reason I am going on about the fungus is that I already killed one cutting-it rotted, the other-right next to it has rooted and is growing great outside in full sun. I kept the soil wet-watered everyday-with great bottom heat, but maybe too wet? I can't quite get my head wrapped around letting the soil dry out somewhat when you are rooting a cutting! Every other plant I have ever rooted wants water every day until the roots happen and then back off grad with the water. Here it seems to be the opposite.

I am assuming that if the plumeria does not go thru dormancy-that it will flower sooner and (more?) in the late spring/summer?

Yeah-it was more than 2 questions!! Man, I always get busted!! I think its safe to say that there will be more!

I think that that makes sense-that a funicide may not work, because with most systemics, they take it up thru the roots or leaves, and in this case there aren't either. Thanks again!! I really appreciate it.

LOL, that's okay:-) You can ask as many questions as you like. I'm glad I could help.

The place in front of the glass doors sounds perfect for your Singapores, and you may not need any supplement light since they are glass doors.

I water my cuttings every day in summer too. When you have lots of heat, especially bottom heat, rot is less of a concern; however, plumerias do store a lot of water in their tissues and can go without water for a long time so try misting instead of watering. The soil should be moist but not dry and not wet. Heat is the most important thing to rooting. The soil temperature shoudl be 80 degrees or higher. Some cuttings are more prone to rotting instead of rooting than others. Some cultivars and colors are harder to root than others. Sometimes, you can do everything right and still not have a cutting root. It happens to everyone -- even the experts. You can increase your success rate by using a heating pad for constant even heat, a rooting hormone, and daily misting. Concrete is great for bottom heat in the summertime, but there is a drop in the temperature of concrete at night, sometimes a significant drop, and the soil will cool so a heating pad ensures even heat temps at the root zone. You can create a mini greenhouse atmosphere even in the summer with a heating pad and a frame with a plastic covering. This will provide constant bottom heat and high temperatures with increased humidity -- which all aid in the rooting process.

Plumerias will flower any time from early spring to late fall and even sometimes during the winter in a greenhouse environment or indoors. Yes, plumerias which don't go dormant may flower sooner than those which are forced to go dormant, but that isn't necessarily always the case. I wouldn't say, however, that they flower more. Blooming depends upon many different factors: cultivar, light, fertilizer, water, growing conditions, etc.

Hi Terry! Here's a picture of one of my freebie plumerias. This one is supposed to be 'Daisy Wilcox' but I won't know for sure until it blooms. Its top was cut off (prior to my getting it) and it now has four branches growing from the cut end. I know (almost) nothing about plumerias, but my guess is that cutting off the trunks/branches encourages vegetative growth but delays flowering.

My other "free" plumie is blooming now http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/610749/ - more flowers continue to open. Each of the two branches has formed three new branches from the point of the inflorescence. So, it seems that as they flower, they get bushier on their own.

As for rooting cuttings... I recently asked about this too: http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/618419/ I'm using 50/50 perlite/potting mix (sterilized w/boiling water). I didn't use any fungicide other than what's included in the rooting hormone powder. So far, so good. Cuttings are still firm and green - won't know if they're rooting successfully for another couple of weeks.

Rooting cuttings have no way to take up the water until they have roots. Therefore : no watering unless you see leaves actively growing. A little misting is fine if it's very hot or dry.

Sorry for the threadjack... but this can be a "newbies questions" thread, right?

Dutchlady1 - I have been giving my cuttings a quick spray with the hose on the "shower" setting every day, just enough to get them wet, but only giving them additional water every few days when the pots feel light when I pick them up. This technique has worked well with brugmansia and other cuttings so hopefully I won't kill them. I am counting on the extra perlite to give provide enough drainage and aeration to prevent rot. Temps here have been in the 90s recently (ugh!) so we certainly don't need heat mats.

Clare - You say flowering depends on cultivar, light, fertilizer, water, growing conditions... makes sense, that's true with most plants. My named plumeria cuttings are Celadine, India, and Grove Farm (see my last thread). Based on the size of the cuttings and assuming I don't kill them, how soon might I see blooms? I was figuring best-case scenario is one of them might bloom late next summer if I'm lucky - otherwise it will probably be summer 2008.

Hi Tom! I water my cuttings every day too because every day the soil is bone dry. I use really well-draining potting soil and conditions are very hot and dry here too. If conditions were cooler or if there were a big drop in temperature or if my cuttings were in shade, then I would water less for sure and just mist. What it comes down to, I think, is that we all need to assess our current growing and rooting conditions and act accordingly. Some people with a lot of humidity in the air -- say, in Florida -- will probably mist less and water less than some people -- say in California -- who live in a dry, hot environment. Rot is much more of a concern when rooting cuttings in winter and spring than it is in summer and fall when the temps are high.

In regard to flowering, most cuttings are taken from flowering trees, which means you could have flowers immediately. You could have them while rooting even. Celadine in particular blooms reliably every year. If you are rooting them this summer, they will take approximately 90 days to establish a good root system, and they will expend energy doing that while pushing out leaves and possibly some growth. Chances are that you will see all three bloom next spring if not sooner. Once you see leaves, you can start fertilizing weekly or every other week until fall. Then you will move your plants inside or to a greenhouse from before the first frost date until after the last frost date. Your newly rooted plumies should not experience temps below 40. I would move them somewhere for the winter that stays above 50 or let them go dormant. In the spring, you will bring them out of dormancy and start fertilizing, and hopefully, you will have flowers next spring and summer. There are certain conditions that inhibit flowering: too small of a container, too little water on a regular basis, uneven watering, too little fertilizer/nutrients, too little light levels/lack of full sun, and insect infestation. If these conditions are not present, you should have plenty of flowers next year.

hmmmmmmmmmmm...well....GENERALLY speaking...over watering is the biggest problem with ALL plants...and Hetty is quite right...is they're no roots..no way to take up the water..and cuttings can rot very easily...treat them like cacti...one successful grower states...if you feel like watering..wait another week...but so much depends on your own situation...i painted my concrete dark green for more heat...and even in the early morning...it is still hot...so bottome heat is important...generally speaking when you have good leaf growth...it means roots are forming....HOWEVER..often blooms occur on cuttings before root development...Trimmng of trees often forces the tree to form new growth and new blossoms...citrus are an excellent example of this....a good fertilizer with minor nutrients is a big help to all plants....a little rain doesn't hurt either...lol..
..since i read the history of Daisy Wilcox...i have new respect for this HUGE blossom provider..here's pic of my CUTTING...which has not formed roots yet..

Since this is a newbie thread, I'll throw in my questions...

Tigerlily talked me into trying some cuttings (it wasn't hard). I will grow these in a greenhouse.

Is there somewhere a list of dwarf non-Singapore varieties? I will admit to not having read through all of the links in the sticky thread at the top, but I did not see any Dwarf Plumerias besides 2 or 3 Singapores, and I see from Clare's post that Singapore's won't do well in the GH.

Also, I have the option of growing in containers or in raised beds with loam/peat or loam/compost blend. Will the plants do better in one or the other?

TIA, SB

SB, the dwarfs other than Dwarf Singaore White and Dwarf Singapore Pink are expensive and hard to come by. There are a few such as Dwarf Richard Criley Rainbow and Dwarf Watermelon (not really a dwarf). Mel Pa Bowman is a yellow dwarf, but I think it is a Singapore hybrid that is prone to black tip if I'm not mistaken. There are other low growing, densely branching plumerias such as Thornton's Lemon Drop, Samoan Fluff, and others that can be kept under five feet high and wide. I should also mention that Dwarf Singapore Pink does not seem to get Black Tip like the Singapore White and Dwarf Singapore White. I had my Dwarf Singapore Pink in my greenhouse last winter, and it did fine with no Black Tip.

The nice thing about these trees is that they grow slowly, respond well to pruning, can be grown in containers for a long time, and start easily from cuttings. That means that you can take cuttings and start over small again at any time. You can also root prune and repot in fresh soil every year or every other year in the spring. Here is a picture of my friend Scott doing some root pruning. He lives in Kansas City, and this plumie is 15 years old.

Here is Scott's plumeria which has been root pruned.

Here it is all potted up after being root pruned:

Scott keeps his plumies in his garage in the winter in Kansas City. He is an inspiration to other cold climate growers.

Clare, great info on the dwarf varieties, thanks. I'll do some more research.

So my new plants would be OK in a GH or going dormant in a 45*F garage, either one?

SB

While Plumies generally speaking branch after blooming.
It is not always the case.
Heres a photo of one of my babies that bloomed and gave no branches
The other branch which also bloomed did branch
LOL! Kinda odd aint it?

This message was edited Jul 14, 2006 4:13 PM

Definitely odd, Michael. I've even had a plumie that bloomed and did not branch, and then a year or more later, it did develop a tiny branch mid-stem where that inflo once was. Weird!

LOL!! TOO FUNNY!!

I heard on Pals that the tall ones will push the inflo to the side and keep growing straight up without branching. I have had plumies do that before.

Arghhhh..
I can't watch scott do that...
I have nothing but repsect for peeps who go thru that trouble to grow a plumie..
I just can't relate to digging up plumies for the winter..
My hats off to all of you.. i feel so lucky now to live in a place where they grow in the ground
all year round "except during hurricane season".
:)