This week, I'm installing a 120' creekbed, with about 100' to 110' of it being running water course.
I'm considering using primarily schedule 40 PVC.
Does anybody have any preferences for pipe? PVC vs. flex tube?
Do you use both?
120' creek bed / pvc vs. black flex pipe
Hi mdvaden - I have 60 feet of stream, five feet wide, so only half your size - wow! Makes me want to add on. I placed the return pipe next to the bed, under the liner, and because of the meandering, I used flex tube. Since I hope to add on someday, I wanted the tube to be easily accessible, so didn't want to run a rigid pipe straight up to the top pond and falls. I've got gardens all along the area, so I'd have to dig up plants and a garden if I ever needed to do any work. What's your head height for that distance? What size pump will you be using? That could make a big difference on the most efficient pipe for you. - Dax
Hi Dax;
I was thinking on the same line. Pump size, size of pipe or tube and how high for head pressure.
I'm installing PVC as I'm having to use 2" because of pump size. I would have to wait a while longer to get the tubeing for the distance I will be running the line for my stream bed. ( or win the lottery ) lol.
I priced 2" flex, what I thought would give a long life. It would have cost around $300. So when I compaired that to the $40. for PVC. Hmmmm.
So Mdvaden; there are two different cases. If the power were to go off your higher priced flex would have more of a chance to stand up to a freeze. than PVC. Unless it was that black non kinking kind which don't take much pressure to seperate between the harder plastic winding. The tubeing is made in a single strand then wraped into a long tube and the thiner sides of the strand are heat sealed into a flexable hose. I was trying to run 1&1/4" through a biological UV filter with a 3500gph pump and kept blowing the flex tube apart. I admit that made quite a restriction & created the pressure to force the flex tube to vertualy unravel. Don't restrict the flow and every thing may be ok.
I don't have my UV hooked in right now and I'm paying for it with green water but I'm working on it.
I also am wondering pump size and tubeing size you plan on using.
Russ
I think the pump will be about a 3000 gph.
The head is about 3' from what would be the top of the reservoir water surface.
I think that's going to be 1.75 inch tube or pipe. I was planning to go right down the middle of the water feature.
If it's shut off in the winter, the pipe can be drained.
If it's flex, I can meander the pipe. If it's PVC, I can make most bends with 45 degree fittings.
Hi - Hi, Russ, too - I'll be getting back to your d-mail, but probably not till tomorrow. Too beautiful to stay inside all day -
Hi, mdvaden - just wondered if you meant that the tube will be in the stream? Or under it? Just thought I'd drop a couple of pics of my stream so you can see the lay out. I've got 2" flex pipe and a 5000 GPH pump, with a separate pump (3600) for the falls. However, I've got about 10' of height so it takes more gas -
Dax
And here's the bottom section of stream to bottom pond after it turns - Dax
dax...
That's some serious pump action.
I like your method of double pumps. That's probably a good way to go for accessories like UV lights, etc.. A lot of people run one pump, but it makes a lot of sense to use second pumps.
About the pipe, I'm going to go down the middle, but underneath the fabric and liner. I usually use two layers of underlayment fabric.
The pipe would be in a small trench / depression, dug with the blade end of the pick.
If I use flex, it's going to be the really thick pipe that can almost support a vehicle, instead of the light duty ribbed flex pipe.
Yes, I forgot to say that I went to Theisen's (local farm implement store) and got the heavy duty 2" flex pipe there instead of through a pond store. 75' was only about $50. It doesn't have the same flex capacity as the expensive stuff, but it's more durable and definitely cheaper! And yes, I definitely agree with the importance of the underlayment. In fact, since I wanted stones on the creek bed and wanted it to look natural, I put old carpeting under the liner and ON TOP of the liner before I put on the stones. It's worked very well for me since I need to get in to clean and didn't want to worry about punctures. Do you already have a stream? They seem to require more cleaning maintenance because of the moving water and since mine is only 6 - 10" deep, the algae builds up quickly, as well as just run of the mill debris. It's just easier to wade in (frankly, I love it!) and scoop it out.
The two pumps saves alot of energy since I don't run the large falls at night, and saves the surface evaporation. - Hope you send some pics as you're working on it - love pictures - Dax
I don't have a stream yet ( we had 3 small ponds before, and have a small one now). This creek bed is for a customer, whose pond, I renovated last week by removing excess rock and adding peripheral plantings. Then they asked for the long creek style, which is ithis weeks project and next.
I'll probably take plenty of pictures.
Every pondless feature is unique for me, as I figure out how to make the concealed cistern. I don't fill them with rock, to retain hollow space. This time, I'm thinking about buying a resin shelf from Lowe's for the shelfs. I 'm trying to figure out a way to support them on a PVC frame to support a thin layer of river rock. If I can support the center, it can work. The very middle will have double stacked valve boxes to house the pump.
Ah - I can picture it - please share the process as we ponders love the challenges of figuring out new features. Right, Russ (randbponder)? - What type of business do you have? Dax
That's right; we love pictures. Which I should have some pretty soon. I am almost done with the new waterfall. I picked up 1 rock I had planned on using, but am considering on having someone look at it. It may be a meteorite. It isn't very large but boy is it ever heavy it's a dark greenish color. Besides that it was more than I wanted to lift. Think I'll weigh it.
Was down to Omaha today. went to the Rock Place, got some red flag stone to cover some of the liner. $250. a ton, should have bought that. but I had the S10; could have put 1/2T on it but 98 miles with that much weight could be hard on the tires, Right??? Think I better get back outside , see if I can finish up tonight. Need to get that water churning a little more. and get rid of the green.
Russ
As you see, it's a skinny area.
Today, I rented a 13 hp hydraulic drive Barretto rototiller to loosen and carve the shape. What a great machine.
Here's what it looked like 3 hours later, although the upper 1/2 is out of view.
Ah - right along the walkway - is that a pool in the background? I can see that the pvc will fit nicely underneath the course. About 1 1/2 foot down? Looks like a trickling brook effect, right? Keep em coming as you progress, mdvaden - thanks - Dax
Yes, there is a swimming pool in the background.
It is supposed to be a "trickling brook" as you mentioned. That way it will complement the delicate sound of the pond, about 15' to the left.
Here's the water flow of the pond in this pic - delicate flow.
I'm going to use quite a bit of the same round rock for the creekbed, with a few moss rock boulder and some plain grey small river rock and pea gravel.
Next phase: the bottom
And the top
Spectacular! Keep em coming! - Your customers are going to have a work of art - hope they appreciate it - Dax
Okay, this may look funky, but it works for irregular lined cavities - retains the hollow space for water. I use 4 pieces of rigid thick pipe on the lowest valve box edge to prevent depression. And a couple of layers up, I lay two more pieces of the heavy thick pipe the other way. But most is the light weight ADS.
I'm going to have to add a shut-off device in this cistern in case anybody shuts off the hose faucet knob accidentally (it will feed water to the auto-fill valve). Doing a test-run on just the black liner, the 200 gallon reservoir level drops at least 8" to a foot in a day, since it's only about 3 1/2 feet wide half way down. The black liner (alone) really heated the water a lot on the 80 degree day, but it may be comparable for what to expect in the rock filled channel on a 100 degree day.
There's no room for error. I was almost considering 2 auto-fill valves side by side, but one should suffice if I install the diaphram Little Giant shut-off switch (about $50).
Next step to keep the thin layer of rock from falling through...
Some plastic mesh with liner scraps...
End of today, not as funky looking anymore.
(At day's end, the swimming pool guy was there for the pool. He asks "is there a filter in there". I'm thinking "like where would it fit")
Ah - really like the bottom framework that allows the water to be directly transported back to the top. No pool at all, you say - hmmm - nice work. Keep the pics coming, please - I'm taking notes all along - how about the top? It's separate from the pond, right? Will it have any falls at all? And as far as a filter, I'm not sure why you'd ever need one since it is a completely running water feature with no animals/plants -right? Only thing that could be a maintenance problem would be leaves, etc. from overhanging trees. Mess to clean up if there are alot of them - Dax
A bit bright for good photos today, but I cropped what wasn't "bleached" by the sun.
Once all rock was placed, the evaporation caused only a 4" drop today on a 90 degree day. That without the autofill, which I put into the valve box with a shut off float switch. I clamped those onto a pvc stand that I put in the box, and ran the upright pvc post / pipe through a drilled hole in the lid. That's for in case the pump ever tweaks slightly, so it doesn't dislodge the shut off or autofill.
I had a miniature recycling system once, a ceramic pot over a hidden 50 gallon drum. It stayed clear for a year without any filters or cleaning. Of course no leave could get into it.
The top has two areas like the one in this photo where water spills from between rocks and cascades down overlapping terra cotta colored flagstones.
I made the pipe and valve to the first one nearer their table larger so it would produce the most sound. The other water spillway is similar, but less flow.
It's a very simple design.
I considered moss rock, but they have a pond just across the sidewalk, so found the same kind of river rock / cobble so the two features would be similar.
The bed (or, used to be lawn) at the top was so skinny, there was no practical way to go any deeper. The water level was so close to the top of the liner when cut at pool deck level, that I decided to line the edge with an edging called "bender board". That's actually the name of that brand I believe. 20' lengths. Firm enough to support a man standing on it's edge, but flexible enough to wrap in a circle to fit in a truck bed with gate closed.
