crinums....sun or shade??

I have accumulated quite a few crinums over the past 6 weeks that will be hardy here in zone 7b. I am now ready to plant them and I was going to put them in a spot that receives full sun ( and I mean full sun! like 9hrs worth a day in the summer/fall) but they will be left alone here undisturbed. Is this too much sun? How much sun can they take?

I have C. scabrum, Ellen bosanquet, Emma Jones, Walter flory, Mystery ..these I think are all hardy to this zone. I also have some Crinium asiaticum (giant white spider lily) that I think is not hardy here-but has anyone had experience in over wintering them with a lot of mulch on the bulbs in zone 7a? I would have them right up next to a large greenhouse that might provide some heat in the ground as well as the mulch and the grhouse will protect them from north winter winds

Tigerlily,

You are on the northern edge of crinum country. Most need sun, and regular water when growing or flowering. Asiaticum is gonna be a real challenge. I have never seen a sucessful one north of 9B, but, I have not been everywhere and don't get out of the state much. I know they do very well in containers, even here. And they actually prefer a little shade. I grow them in full shade because they don't get as large, but, they bloom less - maybe a third as much as a sun grown plant and smaller flowers. I like the shade grown ones because they are a little softer and less upright that sun grown. They are just a nice looking plant no matter where they are grown.

Good luck

Terry, I have mine in full sun. Ideally a little bit of afternoon shade would be nice since the flowers would last longer. But I don't have many trees so I don't have too many planting options. Don't plant them where there is too much shade or they won't bloom as much.

I too think it's going to be a real challenge to get Crinum asiaticum to overwinter here. Even if you could prevent the bulb from freezing it would loose all its foliage every winter. The big C. asiaticums I've seen have a sort of "trunk" that forms and I think if that were frozen it would set the bulb back quite a bit and it might never get big enough to flower, even if it survived the winter. If I were you, I'd grow it in a big container and keep it in the greenhouse over the winter. You could cut back on the water and keep it on the cool/dry side so it goes partially dormant, as long as it doesn't freeze.

Thanks Dale and Tom.....I knew I would have been pushing it on the asiaticums, but the good news is that there are so many that are hardy here!!! I think I will throw some bananas out there and give them a little bit of shade.
Yesterday I was at a nursery and picked up 3 of the powellii in 2 gal pots that were so full and blooming that they were coming out of the pots! $ 9 each!!! I just love those finds!

What do you do about rust on crinums...at least I think it is rust. It is rust colored spots/streaks that get on the leaves every year. I love the flower but hate the plant!

thripmaster - Rust can be a problem on Crinum bulbispermum and hybrids of C. bulbispermum. Not much you can do about it that I know of, and it does not seem to harm the plants much. The only crinums I have that ever get rust are a "milk and wine" and 'Regina's Disco Lounge', both of which are C. bulbispermum hybrids. I have several other crinums growing in the same bed ('Mrs James Hendry', 'JC Harvey', 'Bradley', 'Walter Flory' and 'Emma Jones') that never get rust.

Mine are some kind of super old crinums. I have a feeling that their bulbs might be about as big as a basketball! Not much resistance though. Every year I tell them that they are on probation and to shape up...and they never do. I don't have the heart to get rid of them though because they are so old, they are like a part of the farm's heritage, also the flower is pretty. Obviously they are not taking my idle threats very seriously!

tigerlily123~

I would pile on the fall leaves on all of them, very deep.

I'm doing that this year with all my in-ground Crinums and expect to have the necks come through fairly intact and I expect to see some foliage too, maybe not so green as before, but not all mushy and brown.

I've seen Crinums around town that were in a protected situation (warm micro-climate and situated in an inner corner of a structure) and they appear not to have been cut down to ground level by frosts. Very large clumps too and that might have been protective to some degree too. Don't know what kind they are......

My pink xpowelliis get reduced to mush, but it's after several hard freezes but they were never mulched at all. I've had them for a loooong time, so I'm thinking they have acclimatized some and would really come through with the deep leaf mulch. I'm going to begin covering them as frosts begin, maybe letting them take a light one or two, then cover them to their tops with leaves, maybe leaving the very top open till really cold temps come.

Robert.

Thanks Robert, I will mulch them, I am still a bit concerned about the amt of sun they are going to get-9 hrs is a lot here. Am trying to think of some thing to plant amonst them to give them some shade that is fast growing...

So you will mulch all the way to the top of the foliage by the time that you are done mulching? Do you think shredded hardwood mulch would do the same as leaves in holding the heat ? If these bulbs are hardy here, then whats wrong with them dying back and sending up new leaves in the spring? Do you think that losing the foliage slows down the blooming process-or are there other drawbacks? I am assuming that they all do lose their foliage-but have never had them thru a winter before.

Terry, full sun is just fine for crinums. If it's really hot the flowers may fade a little faster than they would if the plants had a bit of afternoon shade but that's not a big deal.

I just re-read your first post and I see you have C. scabrum ... that is not hardy here and you'll need to keep it in the greenhouse over the winter just like C. asiaticum.

Your other crinums are hardy in Zone 7b. Check out the Plant Delights catalog for others that are hardy here (or ask me :) http://www.plantdelights.com/Catalog/Current/page26.html. The only concern for the winter is ensuring the bulbs don't freeze. I cover mine with about 3" of shredded hardwood mulch in the fall. The foliage always gets killed back to the ground every winter and they always come back just fine the next spring and bloom in the summer.

Thanks Tom, I feel better! I just pictured them frying in the heat. 3" of mulch is a lot more doable than leaf cages too. I am trying to resist the urges to putting a lot of tropicals in the ground that I will have to dig back up again in the fall.

Thats a drag about the scabrum....I could have sworn she said they were hardy here. I have 5 of them-want one??

What I want to do is to save any aboveground necks and of course any green foliage would be good too.

Some of the hardy Crinums are actually evergreen in their proper zone, amd that means neck and leaves on those would stay. I'd like to have them go on as close to that.

I think having the foliage intact, if it is green, would give them a quicker start in the spring. I don't look forward to the coer-uncover that I'll prolly be doing because of late frosts and all, but I'd like to experiment and see what happens.

The reason I mentioned fallen leaves is this: This spring, as I was raking away a pile of mostly pin oak leaves from an are where I work with plants, I uncovered a large piece of a Christmas or Easter cactus that I had tossed aside or that had fallen aside as I divided a large plant for my mother. The piece wasn't at all desicated or damaged by the cold and was as green as it was last summer. That was what sold me on fresh fallen leaf mulching.

The way I think of it,it's more keeping out the cold as it is keeping in the heat. This is prolly not technically correct, but it's how I see it. Insulation to keep the cold out.

As far as the amount of sun goes, it depends alot on the species and how it occurs naturally. There is leaway with most of the more popular ones and it helps to have the water level go up as the hours of full sun goes up in many instances. They don't do as well for me with lots of sun in soil that is constantly moist. They'll survive just fine, but they show the stress with bent and yellowy foliage, smaller blooms and over time fewer blooms per scape. The foliage tend to bend anyway but seems to happen more in poorer light with lots of water or high light with low water. At least with the sun lovers like C. x powelli, scabrum and so on.

Have you seen Marcelle's? http://marcellescrinums.com/
or
this one: www.jenksfarmer.com ?

Robert.

My C. scabrums came from Georgia and I am so tempted to try to push the zone on them. Calla lilies are mostly listed as zone 8 and that must be close enough to 7b as my rehmanniis come back no problem. Keeping them dry is the secret.

There isn't a lot of info as to the northern limits of scabrum on the net, but I'm still thinking of risking one of my bulbs to see if it will over-winter. Keeping it dryish won't be too hard as they are in a naturally dry area and I have to irrigate them almost daily to keep the water level right in summer heat. Lots of sun, but not technically full sun (Full sun: Direct sun from sunup to sundown.)

Robert.

Hey Robert-mine would be full sun-all day from 8 am to 6 in the pm-thats actually 10 hrs of full sun-no shade, up against a greenhouse. I have seen full sun perennials cook in full sun like that. Well, I would like to put some tropicals out there anyway, so I may stick some bananas and colocasias there as well.

I am all for pushing the zones-since I have 5 of the scabrums I will put a few out there and maybe even try the leaf mulch and the shredded hard wood on them. I'll let you know how they do. I may put one in a more sheltered spot on the south side as well. Are you going to leave one out this winter? Watch us get nailed this winter!! lol it would not be funny as this winter I will be having a lot of cold hardy tropicals out there for the first year.

I agree about the added or reflected heat of the greenhouse on the Crinums. Good call.

Well, I have had tender plants make it through the winter without any care, and I know not to always go strictly by what is published. My herb Stevia has survived three winters in a 2 gallon pot on the ground right where I left it at summers's end and it has always come back. Now that I've finally put it in the ground, what it freeze out, lol.

I had some Aloe chinensis make it through the winter in a pot on the front porch too. Lost the largest plant but not the pups. I think not watering it (I didn't even think of the aloes all winter!) made all the difference. It was in a SE exposure on stone against a brick wall, so that helped a lot.

Plants will also acclimatize over time. I posted my experience with increasing hardiness of Ficus pumila in the bulbs forum, I think, and also about Hippeastrums that others in the area grow in the ground (other than x johnsonii.)

Anyhow, here's wishing you luck. I'll probably put one in the ground. I'm almost certain of it....

Robert.

Now that certainty is gone. After reading Tony Avent's comments about putting scabrum a FOOT under the soil and mulching over that, it's just not worth it!

And besides: I can get earlier blooms by keeping them potted.

Robert.

PS- I just got Crinum 'Sacramento' from Plant Delights. Maybe next year I'll go for the Crinum 'Stars and Stripes'.