Heirlooms Part I

It is time that the crew has a new canvas.

This is a continuation of the wonderfully sentimental thread that Robert (Raydio) started on the subject of heirloom Narcissus. < http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/581730/ > As the seasons changed, the discussion did as well, and we have touched the genera Oxalis, Narc, Aquilegia, (Ferns), (Orchids) and Arisaema in the contexts of history, family and change.

I will contribute my comparitively small contribution when I can post pictures, but until then; let us see the summer unfold.
K. James

I loved that thread. I also keep finding little narcissus in my yard, but I don't know why. My yard is at this point very "wild"...not field "wild", but it has a lot of native wildflowers and things that volunteer coming up in it. I have wild strawberry, violets, columbine, blue-eyed grass here and there, and more. I also get virginia creeper popping up, along with other unknown vines. Other things that come up from birds dropping seeds are Nandina 'Heavenly Bamboo" and "Money Plant".

I have been trying hard to find the naturalized "Tiger Lily", I think it is called 'Lilium Lancifolium'. It is something my grandmother had in her garden. I found it listed in a couple of places on the internet, but it was sold out before I could get any.

Laura

Kenton, thanks for the new thread! With luck, I will get your surprise package mailed today.

Hi Laura! Your "wild" yard sounds nice. Native plants are so much more interesting than just lawn grass, aren't they?

Here is a new flower at my place. I got seeds from Floridian 2 years ago and it finally bloomed!
Aristolochia fimbriata:

Well done, Susan. A real collector's collector's plant.
Arisaema dracontium hanging in there in Colorado.

Kenton, I think you like the unusual, as do I. The green dragons are cool. Mine are done blooming and are busy making seeds now.
How do you like the English Ivy? Years ago, I let it run through some perennial bulb beds but found that digging and dividing the bulbs became almost impossible. I have been slowly removing the bulbs and relocating some of them. I keep the ivy out of new areas!

Daylilies are starting to bud and bloom now. Stella d'Oro is about done (not one of my favorites) and the big hybrids are getting loaded up with buds. Here is a new one I bought this year...supposed to have 16" scapes but they are barely 12" high! (Actually, it has made more double flowers than this one pictured, but I haven't gotten out there with the camera.)

Siloam Double Classic:

Oh, patience. I'm sure it will be at least 17" for you next year, more if shady.

I collect Hederas, actually, and I'm pretty good at controlling them. (Try some of the heavily variegated or distorted guys, they are all perfectly hardy and are often less vigorous) That particular spot is about to get a nice rock edge to keep it better separated from underplanting itself (again) in an Orienpet-Lilium bed. I like the classic English Ivy shape, the formula for which took me years to figure out in order to draw it. I have some giant Ivies that are in pots now, mostly, and I wonder how they will compare! If they have proportionate growth, I shouldn't have a front lawn (yipee) in five years or so.
Kenton

A strongly albomarginate Giant Ivy.

Well, I am gradually taming this wild space. I want to have a bit of grass and lots of flowers to look at, so I am gradually re-taking what nature has been working on during a long period of neglect. It has been fun to find "freebies" in the yard, however.

Anyone know of a source for Tiger Lilies?

Laura

Kenton, I am glad you are controlling the hederas. Here in Missouri, we have a much wetter climate (except in summer, when we need it) so mine grows rampantly. It has claimed WAY MORE space than I intended to allot to it, and refuses to behave.
The one in the picture is quite different from any I've seen before. The more variegated a plant is, the less vigorous due to decreased photosynthesis. My ivy is the dark, somewhat bluish green, with leaves that get very large with prominent silver veining. I still love to look at it. The leaf petioles often form roots in water if I put them in little "posy" bouquets by the kitchen sink.

Largosmom,
Do you mean Lilium lancifolium? If so, go here: http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/1025/index.html
There are 2 vendors listed at the top of this page, and lots of information in the comments at the bottom.
Good luck!

Toxi

kenton, would your hedera be H. colchica dentata variegata?

http://aolsearch.aol.co.uk/image?query=%27hedera+colchica+dentata+variegata%27&isinit=true&x=42&y=10

I have one growing against the shed wall, it took a while to get 'attached' but is now growing well. I also have Paddy's Pride, it desperately needs a place in the ground, lovely large colourful leaves with lime green.

Yes'm. J; you have everything, haven't you?
The blue wall is perfect in compliment. I dream for such a sight; but alas, I doubt I have such a place that hasn't an Ivy already...

Do you happen to know if colchicas or canariensis get bigger? I ahve some of both and I wonder about it.
K

H. helix 'Gold Baby'

K. not quite everything! But loads yes.

Paddy's Pride is a colchica, not familiar with the canariensis, but PP is a huge leaf and grows very tall. I have seen it at a children's adventure park possibly 30' up a 'cliff' behind a pool.

http://ag.arizona.edu/pima/gardening/aridplants/Hedera_canariensis.html

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/factsheets/vines/hedera_colchica.html

This looks like colchica is bigger

http://classygroundcovers.com/item--Hedera-c-Dentata-Variegata-{24-Pots-3-1-2-in-}-colchica-Variegated-Persian-Ivy--930

I did see those links, but both are out or season. [sigh]. I need to run up to B&Bs and see if they have any potted up from the display garden and hope for the best.

Laura

Laura~

Good luck on your search!

I grew up with tiger lilies at home and it's fitting they're mentioned here in the Heirlooms thread. I have a few stragglers of my own, not from the original stock, but the same plant, just the same. They've been way too dry to do much, but I'm correcting that this fall!

I would have moved them earlier, but has NO idea where they were. They're samll plants, about a foot tall, with one or two having a few buds set. Courageous and valient work from my neglected tigers.

I keep reading that most, if not all, tiger lilies are carriers of a lily virus and are therefore not planted by a great many people who grow other lilies. It seems as though it's impossible (?) to find certified virus-free bulbs, The bad part is that L. lancifolium doesn't get the virus disease and looks perfectly normal and healthy, which it is. So, you may want to look into this issue before mixing it in with your other lilies (if you have any.) There might be an effective seperation distance to hinder the spread of the virus, but that does have it's risks.

I love 'em though, those bold, bright, tough tigers!

Robert.

Yes, I think wallaby's plant collections put us all to shame! We are so envious! (Just kidding, keep sharing your lovely plants with us.)
The blue wall is perfect for the yellow variegated ivy.

Hi Toxi, yes I know you're kidding...I am perhaps a little more enthusiastic than some, but there are some that go much further than me in the collecting stakes. I do most of it by buying cheap starter plants or from seed, and I DO make a rod for rmy own back, but, hmmm, I STILL have ideas of growing those species gladioli (+ others) from silverhillseeds in SA. Promised myself I would wait, but as I start to catch up with myself just a little, there go those thoughts again...

That blue (airforce blue?) was made from mixing a tub of white masonry paint with a small sampler of black, and adding a large thing of dark green dye. It worked out well, not dark green but.. I think the Paddy's Pride can go on the other side of the window to ramble around the back of it, it will have to be cut back, the other one is hitting the guttering, but it is lovely.

H. colchica 'Paddy's Pride' is known mostly as 'Sulfur heart' in the US. I have mine in a spot where it can cover the shaded front of the house, but with only a few square feet of "foot space." We'll see.

Interestnig note on the Lily, Radio. Some Lirioid virises are pollen-born, so the reach is anywhere a thrips or bee can go... Can you give a latin name for us deficient in common names? I am under the impression that there are several species called that.
Kenton

You mean the name for Tiger Lily?

Largosmom had it right. The latest epithet is Lilium lancifolium. It was L. tigrinum at one time. Might have been something else further back.

Common names get applied all over the place and make for great confusion. I know there are some spotted hybrids in various colors that are called "tiger lilies" because they look so much like the orange tiger. Not sure of the parentage of them. Some look like other Asiatic species mixed in, but I think "Yellow Tiger" is a true var., but don't quote me. The double is a legit lancifolium though. People also get L. superbum confused with lancifolium too, but looking at the two together makes you wonder about their observational skills......

It's a good thing that lily pollen is so heavy that it wouldn't get blown around much. I guess de-anthering them would help. I guess you could pray for lazy thrips that would rather stay in one area and not make looong treks to the other side of the house or something.

Interesting note about virus research: Interferon used in AIDS treatment was developed to treat lily virus. Who'd a thunk it?

Robert.

As I understand it, the hybrid tigers are not a carrier of the virus.

Thanks, Robert. Very interesting.

Here is a truly giant Tulip (Probably 'Blushing Beauty') that has tulip-breaking virus, which can be transmitted to lilies. (This is a late-blooming Tulip and early-blooming lilies are going at the same time.) This virus creates the masterwork-gorgous true rembrandt-type tulips.

Single late tulips with it. Both pictures are in a friend's garden. I think she had a "Queen of Night" tulip that had it- the stripes were creamy pink or something.

Kenton

Thanks for the reminder about the virus. I remember reading about it, but had forgotten. I'll be careful while looking around. I have only a few other lilies, and nothing spectacular, but they bloom reliably for me and I wouldn't wan't to infect with something else. I would imagine that B&B could tell me on a phone call what I need to know before driving up. They are about 30-40 minutes from me, so it is just far enough for the gas to be an issue. They often have pots of display bulbs available in the shop, so I am hoping I might be able to get some. They have been very good with advice.

By the way, both the vendors listed on the garden watchdog are sold out.

Laura

Kenton~

Didn't know that the tulip virus could infect lilies. Thanks for the info.

Can the tulip virus linger in the soil and be transmitted that way? If not, you could time things to have lilies (maybe) not come up til after the Rembrandts have gone over. Would that help?

Robert.

A question for an authority in the Lily forum, I think.

I have heard of this virus some years ago, and if you leave the leaves on the ground they can infect the lilies, rather like blackspot does roses. All dead material should be cleaned up, but that may not guarantee anything. I also think if you have virused tulips it's very difficult to get rid of it, the complete area they were growing in should be removed. Some tulips have all but disappeared from the market because of viruses.

The "Rembrandts" are no longer commercially available and that's a good thing, on the whole.

I neglected to say to Kenton:
Love that "prolly Blushing Beauty". What yummy colors.

R.

Note that the thing is fripping huge, too, won't you?
It was big enough to eat a small dog. I am now trying to own every Tulip 'Temple of Beaty' sport that exists...

Oh, did it eat your dog, Kenton? So sorry for you....

I think that last one is a bit of a trick picture, ha.

Wish you all were here this week, the garden is just a knockout with all sorts of colors going at once. Pictures don't do it justice, once they are resized small enough to upload. Sometimes it is wonderful (like now) then suddenly there is a big lull and very little in bloom. That is when company arrives!
Guess I should try getting a picture anyway.

Here's one from a couple of weeks ago: now there are daylilies, roses, and rudbeckias in there as well.
Sized down from 3.29 MB to 103 kb...

kenton your dog loves you...

Toxi I know what you mean about getting pictures to do justice, just lately I have been trying to get pics of my rose Fantin Latour, it is now a large shrub and looking great but try as I might, the lovely light pink flowers just seem to glare into nothing. It must be the light intensity, but I tried with sun, without sun, no go. Close ups some success, I got one with a sort of bee thing just landing, but it found no stamens and nowhere to hang onto, you can see it's legs running along trying to get a grip...

Thanks for this thread Kenton, good idea :)

I love heirlooms and have so many things growing that have so much sentimental value. The feeling I get of connection to gardeners of yesterday is warm and comforting.

Laura, a friend gave me a pocket full of stem bulbletts from some tiger lilies a couple of years ago and they're already big enough to bloom. There are more than I plan on keeping and I'd be happy to share. Dmail me if you'd like me to send you some this fall.
Neal

A good pictuer just for that, Wallaby.

And no, Susan, that is a true picture. Since the camera set its light intake on the dog, the tulip was lightstruck.

I like the term to describe bulb count: "Pocket full." It sets a greater image.

This is that silly heirloom Daylily that lines ditches (in my garden as filler) with someone having to go deep to get the last drop.
Kenton

The true beauty of plants revealed! I found that when I grew heirloom dahlias, the old species they used to grow, my garden was full of butterflies I'd never seen before..

Flower companions

Hey Toxi, gemini !

Susan~ Love that "wildflower glade" and the birdhouse adds so much! I would be sitting on the groung during "L'heur Bleu" and enjoy all those colors and textures in the dimming of the day. So nice.

Neal~ LOL! That swallowtail IS going deep. Must be good stuff in there!

Lovely pic, Kenton, with wings and blooms echoing color.....Mmmmmmmmmm.

Janet~ Love the contrast between the flutterby and the snowy white of the blossom pointing up the markings. I wonder what those two were talking about?

All these pix make me think it's the weekend. No, I haven't a clue as to why that is.....

I kept trying to catch this Tiger in a good position but it was so flighty this was all I could get before it flew off.

Have a great weekend!

Robert.

Great bug pics! They really add to the fun of gardening (unless they are eating the whole plant).

Here is a clearwing moth I captured a shot of a few weeks ago. They move very quickly from bloom to bloom so I took about 20 pictures to get one that was remotely decent. These little moths look like bees, and act like hummingbirds. I love them.

Toxi, are'nt those cute! Around here I've heard them called hummingbird moths. I love all the life fluttering around the garden. When I still used chemicals in the garden I remember being mortified that some systemic I had used may poison hummingbirds and butterflies. Do any of you know if systemics do make the nectar toxic?

I've been observing the 'tastes' of different species. Great spangled frittilaries have been mostly attracted to red and orange flowers, especially lantana and asiatic lilies. Black and tiger swallowtails loved the grape hyacinths in spring, and dianthus after that, and now are enjoying evening primroses and lilies. They don't seem to be as concerned about the color. Zebra swallowtails just seem to check it all out, but don't seem interested in staying to dine. The hummers always enjoy my red trumpet honeysuckle (they even fight over it!), and now are liking lantana and fuschia. I have fuschias in my window boxes and it's so cool to see them from inside where I can get a close look.

Robert, that was Kenton's wonderful photo. I'm so gittery I can hardly get a pic of a blossom that is'nt blurry, let alone a butterfly, LOL.

Neal wrote:
". Do any of you know if systemics do make the nectar toxic?"

You and I are on the same wavelength this week. I have been wondering whether it's really true. People say it does and that's why they don't use systemics, but i've been trying to find out how true that is.

Neal~ Yeah, that was the pic I was saying was lovely to K. I thought your quip was a hoot!

Robert.

I wouldn't like to take the chance of using poisons, and that's what anything with chemicals is. Even humans are affected by what goes into the food, just about everything is sprayed for pest and weed control, and it does get taken up by the plant.

Have you ever tried cheese which is organic, or bread made from organic flour? There is a huge difference in taste. Consider not only what might be in the pollen, but also what may be inhaled from the air surrounding. In the County I live in chemical sprays in the past have been widespread on crops, and there are now controls with many being banned. People living in areas where crops have been sprayed, in the 'healthy' country, have a high incidence of certain types of cancer, proven to be caused by chemical sprays.

Also beware of these 'miracle' plant aids, as many seem now to be hooked on, you know the ones I mean, that 'strengthen' a plant so that it can shrug off bugs and therefore bloom better. These products have to be genetically engineered, and who wants to kill of a 'bug' which will turn into a beautiful butterfly, or a bee that will pollinate flowers and food crops, lacewings and ladybirds that eat greenfly, this list goes on. Unfortunately there is a hype created around plants and the need to do this, and the 'keep up' with the latest product in order that your blooms will be at least as good as your neighbours. It's crazy.

If people didn't use the sprays in the first place then there would be natural predators to deal with the unwanted bugs. If people used good mulches, made compost to feed the plants naturally, then the plant will strengthen itself, will bloom well, and will be kind to our wildlife. I have in the past gone around and squashed greenfly by hand, for the last 3 years or so I haven't had to do it on the blackcurrants, they used to get smothered with greenfly under the new leaves, then drip on the fruit, sooty mould growing. This year I have found a few greenfly on the roses for a start, then all of a sudden there were none or very few, and I have ladybird larvae feeding on them. I have built up a good supply of ladybirds, many overwinter in dead seed heads which I leave on the plants until spring.

Oh if I could educate the world on the do's and dont's I would be a happy person, it is saddening to see people being sucked in by marketing ploys. I'm sure the majority of people would see sense if given the proper information. So many people are new to gardening, once most people did it, after a long lull there is a revival. TV gardening programmes and the internet have helped to do this, but the same media is used to lure unwary people down the wrong path, all in the name of 'profit'.

This describes various tests carried out on different creatures for toxins

http://www.icsu-scope.org/downloadpubs/scope53/chapter11.html#t11.4

Effects of spraying on plants

http://www.icsu-scope.org/downloadpubs/scope49/chapter14.html

See how good bee pollen is for us

http://www.texasdrone.com/Bee-Pollen.htm

I'm with you, Janet. Just over 3 years ago I moved here to a pristine woodland environment, full of woodpeckers, hummingbirds, indigo buntings, goldfinch, cardinals, wild turkey, and many butterflies and moths, some of which I'd never seen before. There's even a black snake that lives in my compost pile and hatched babies there last year (I call her Slitherella, I think she takes care of the moles there). When I moved here I went totally organic; this place is too wonderful to screw it up. I think of soil as a living organism, and have seen too many agricultural areas with "dead" soil (this is a big tobacco growing area). Makes me think of big, open wounds on the face of Mother Earth. I'm really cheap too, and poo is often free, LOL!
Neal

Neal! Do you mean???????????