Good morning everyone. I'm trying to track down the cause of some of the problems I am having. I was looking at my plants this morning and noticed again some small centers. I know there are no bugs. (well, I can't be certain, but I am pretty sure). I have reduced the amount of light. I have repotted and I think the ph is ok. Now I want to concentrate on fertilizer. I have a friend who grows orchids. The "trick" she says is fertilize very weakly, weekly. I am wondering if I am using too much fertilizer even though I reduce the suggested amount by half.
Jesse was talking about brittle leaves. That is one of the signs of too much fertilizer. There are a lot of signs. The problem is these signs can mean many different things.
Is anyone else interested in knowing how much fertilizer is too much? AND would anyone be interested in trying some kind of experiment to determine what kind of fertilizer and how much fertilizer should be used?
Interested in figuring out the good and bad of fertilizer?
I though of another question that applys. How often does everyone leech the build up salts with water?
I wrote threads on watering , build up, leaching
And another one on over fertilizing
and I think it was Joanne was doing an experiment with low fertilizing ~
If I can find these threads they may help some ~
Me I have been lowers funds and have not bought fertilizer for a long time BUT my soil-less mix has fertilizer in it so I have not worried about it.
What mix do you use that has fertilizer in it, Allison?
this is what I am using /
Bayer Advanced Garden™
3-in-1 Multi-Purpose Potting Mix
I think Hubby is mixing 10 quarts with 8 quarts of perlite and I like it very much.
This message was edited Jun 2, 2006 9:37 AM
Here's another thread I posted about any form og bottom watering, too much fertlizer Leaching and more..
to go along with Nanna's here.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/590187/
Nanna here is another thread i bumped don't over feed...maybe can help to go along with your's ?
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/582611/
Thanks, Allison. You know when these threads were first posted I didn't think fertilizer was my problem because I was diluting. The more I read the more I really believe I have be over fertilizing without realizing it.
This morning I took each plant that looked like it might be having problems and leached it. I held back on the fertilizer this week and added only plain water to the wells.
Hope this information helps others. I was very surprised because I had been so very careful in measuring.
Nanna are your plants too wet in the center of pots ? Have you slipped them out of the pots to check roots and all.
Also I was thinking your soil PH is fine but what about your water PH with fertilizer in it and not ?
Anytime you fix a problem , try something new it's going to take a couple months for your plants to get back on their normal blooming cycles. Some plants I have trans-planted you could see instantly though how happy they were.
I was also reading good idea to let wells dry out now and then. Many times myself and others we have fount soil was stone dry on top and dry sticking finger in . But our plants were not happy ? Taking them out of the pots they were doppy wet.
I wish I could find the article/story in one of my many old av journals . Less food is good and plants can go without food but not light .
Also I find when the weather changes from Winter to hot summer all the plants change yikes, I hate this. They don't blooms as much, variegations is not as good, their watering needs change...and more.
Seems like I just got everyone blooming happy growing like crazy , fussing to keep it from being too cold at night all was great !
And this hot weather came and changed everything..
We do run the A/c non stop but it's still hot and the plants know.
You are a dear to worry so about my plants. I think I just like to worry. I think one of the problems might be changing my soil mix. AND the new fertilizer I got from VG. Don't know why I don't remember to not fix things if they aren't broken
What irritates me is that I can't find potting mix that doesn't have fertilizer in it. Even the perlite I had to get this time is Miracle-Gro perlite, enriched with Miracle-Gro. For the love of Pete! I've got enough sense to fertilize if my plants need it (OK well, maybe not, because I do forget to fertilize sometimes...) but I don't want MG for my AVs! That's all any of the stores had! I hope I can find regular perlite next time and that it doesn't harm my AVs this time.
I certainly hear you. I want what I want and not what they want to add to it!
Yes it's very hard. I can't believe they are putting it in MG perlite now also. I bet there's not much in it their too cheap .
My new soil-less mix I like a lot...And trying to get all my plants in it.
It does have fertilizer and bug killing stuff. I feel safe with it keeping gnats gone ! Yeah ! And getting new plants I wash, and take almost all soil off ( like Selective garners, optimaras soil too heavy) I neem oil the each leaf top, bottom and soil , roots .... Now I have extra protection in my soil and it's makes me feels safe/ And my husband has mixed my soil in large amounts for years both us us can tell the difference in feel , lightness, needing less perlite everything about it we like.
I just won't feed them for six months or more and then I'll be re-potting . lol And I'm out of fertilizer for months anyways.
But you can buy pro-mix or the ingrdients separate and not a potting mix to avoid the food. We use to do this but then this became easier and works well.
Also you can buy large bags of perlite with no food.
Nanna yes it is best when your plants are growing good DONT" change to different soil mix and DON't change fertilizer. Dont change it if it's not broken.
BUT IF YOU WANT TO TRY something different try it on a few plants for a month or two first.
What are you using that has bug-killing stuff in it? I'd be interested in trying that. Can't take too many precautions!
Amy I am using Bayer Advanced Garden™
3-in-1 Multi-Purpose Potting Mix
The only potting mix with insect protection
Moisture control soil
Kills adelgids, aphids, fungus gnats, Japanese beetles, lacebugs, mealybugs, thrips and whiteflies
and Hubby gets it at Lowes
Allison, how long have you used it?
Gosh Nanna just sense May 1 st. but it seems like forever. lol Hubby mixes big container full at a time.
Now 10 quarts of mix with 8 quarts of Perlite and water mixed to his perfection !
I have gone threw at least 6 batches of above and need him to make it again ! I have been using it for leaves, babies, and trying to slowly but surly get all my plants in it ! Right from the begining we both could feel and see the difference. It's a joy to work with plants seem very happy !
TaTa ! Nanna just fount what Rob's says about these small centers after bloominh !
To start with, prolonged, heavy, blooming seems to divert the plant's energies away from foliage growth. This is especially a problem when heavy bloom is concentrated over the center of the plant--there just isn't enough light or room for new growth to fully develop/ FOR MUCH MORE !
http://www.robsviolet.com/faq_page_8.htm#smaller%20leaves
Yes growers never take their plants home or buy any in fear of pest. But can you imagine how the foliage looks at blooming zillions of babies for months.
Plus they always start with new babies...Most will grow severial plants of each variety they want to show and take the best.
All good to know- and I noticed on a few of my plants that the leaves were brittle, but just thought it was the particular plant. Last time I watered only w/ water, some vinegar and superthrive. Perhaps next will leach the pots and then after that some fertilizer. Will see what happens. Another possible reason why some of my plants have not bloomed as we thought they should.
Why did you use vinegar, April. Are you trying to adjust the ph level?
Allison, I read the answer at Robs. That is exactly why happened. I repotted while the plants were in bloom. Also many of my plants were heavy bloomers.
Nanna
Yes- I know that most people would actually test the ph but me, I like to experiment. It was pretty dilute so I am not sure it would really have much impact but I felt like they needed a change.
Why did you use vinegar, April
It's not just the PH of soil but also your water and your water with fertilizer in it .
How long has it been sense trans-planting ?
Maybe you should just try this vinegar on a couple noids first not on your expensive plants .
Most times when plants do not bloom it is beacause of not enough light. Superthrive is also known to cause tight centers and brittle leaves.
That is interesting, Allison. I have been using Superthrive. I decided to stop just this morning.
Adding this with fertilizer woo too much fertilizer for sure/ and then superthrive could be the whole culprit.
Problems don't show up over night it takes awhile.
I think what your doing potting and leaching ...
less fertilizer , no superthrive might really help your plants. It can also take a while for your plants to get back to normal.
I just got back to DG;
I experienced the same problems when I was fertilizing but not watering well enough (to flush the excess). After repotting and a good flushing, things recovered. I did repot them into basic MG soiless mix, though, so I will update you...
Kenton
Thanks Allison. This has been a great discussion.
Thanks Kenton. Welcome back! It is always good to have a second opinion.
Hi Kenton !
Hey- I have pictures.
The way that the tight and distorted crown of 'Fantasy Radiance' gave way to healthy leaves in a week or so after repotting is amazing.
'Royal Wasp' is quite a bit slower, but the new healthy leaves are coming!
In these pictures, you can see the row of old good leaves, the bad ones, then the new healthy ones on top. 'Optimara Millenia' is very happy to have fresh soil:
Kenton
Great pictures, Kenton. Was the cause of the tight centers in these photos being pot bound?
Nice save Kenton ! I think Kenton's was getting to wet, too much fertilizer, cold maybe one or all these reason. But I think it was mostly fertilizer busild up if I am remembering back right ??
Was it this Kenton.
You sure did a good job saving them back to beautiful plants ! Great growing. Thanks for sharing .
It was too much drying out/fertilizer buildup. At least that what it appeared to be, empirically.
You did a good job saving them Kenton ~ I remeber when you Dmailed me about them worried it may be pest. And I mentioned about the fertilizer build up is so easy to happen with any bottom watering method.
I'm so happy they are looking great !
Kenton Dmailed me April 4th.
Thinking he had bugs. He Dmailed yuky pictures of some of his
plants which were yuky crowns distorted and more.
I am sure most people would have thought mites for sure. I was not sure but I did not feel this was the problem .
If you saw his before / and after pictures they are unbelievable difference to me ! Wow Not only is Kenton good at growing but great at saving. Me I would have probaly dumped it in the trash. Good job Kenton !
I Dmailed and mentioned to him;
Kenton Hi ! I was just reading more on fertilizer and salt build up in plants wicked. When bottom watering the water comes up to the top of the pots. What happens when your plant is dry soil and you place it in a pan of water. The plant will soak it up right ? The soil soaks it up first. Once the soil is moist, the roots take their drink. From the roots the water rises into the plant. It also rises around the plant until the soil is wet. Leave the pot in the water long enough and the soil will be soaked. Why and how does this happen ?
This is the same physical reaction you find when a stalk of limp , almost dry celery is placed in ice cold water. Soon the celery is crisp, and cold itself. Why? The top of the stalk was almost dry when it was limp and warm. Where did this water in the top come from ? It rose up the capillary tube in the celery tubes in the celery stalk-the same tubes that fed the stalk while it was growing .
Wtaer tends to rise above its own level through capillary attraction.
But in your potted plant , once moisture reaches the surface, it has no place esle to go. The passage of air evaporates the surface moisture. But evaporting liquids can only pass into vapor or gaseous state in their pure form and the minerials -or salts- are left behind.
This accumulated mineral deposite can harm the plant if it is washed down into the soil in heavy concentration. The safest thing to do is to scrap it off.
Best to use 1/2 or even better yet 1/4 the amount of recommend fertilizer while wick watering. It is also good to top leach your plants once a month.
It the same thing if you take a cup of water , and place two spoonfuls of salt in it . Stir it up well , dissolving as much of the salts as you can. Then place the cup in the window sill or in the cupboard and let it stand until all the water had dried out. Guess what's standing in the bottom of the cup. Your two spoonfuls of salt. It will also work with sugar or any other solid. And this is what happens to fertilizer. Salt build up on top of pots is bad news.
The dissolved fertilizer and water soluble food you have been feeding your plants does not all reach the roots. Some of it passes by the roots and remains in the water that reaches the surface of the soil. As the water evaporates it is in the water , that is on top of your soil. Get rid of it, it is too strong a concentration to water back into the soil without risking a ruined plant.
Take a tiny bit of top-soil off leach plants once a month . Put new top soil !
I feel this is what happen to your plants.
Allison
Kenton can we show one of the scarey pictures when your plants were sick so everyone can see the difference ?
Thanks, Allison
Bumping too much fertilizer can casue many problems