what do you do?

when it seems someone is purposefully not completing their end of a trade? Now I know these are just seeds, and not a huge deal. I understand that. And I've forgotten someone, but an email reminder gets me moving on them.
But when someone that 2 different people have traded something very nice for, went out of their way to find seeds this person said they couldn't get, and still you get excuses, and then you see them posting again for more?
What is *polite* etiquette? Let others be taken in? I've already written this off as a bad experience, but I hate to see someone keep pulling this on others.

Hi tiG

That's a good question. Hope it's not me.LOL
If I have tried and had no luck in a complete trade and I hear of others having the same problem I would stay clear of trading with that person.Plus I might even email others I know are good traders of the pit fall in private.
I would also demand to the person that the trade is based on me getting mine first the next time,then if you don't recieve anything you can make a trade with someone else, and never trade with that person again. Yes I may be harsh but this is for fun and excitement NOT FRUSTRATION!
If it's me send me a polite email. LOL
Mike

no no Mike, it's no one that's regular here:) And of course, you try the email route, but you can't make someone hold up to their word. I just wondered about warning others, is that right? I don't know. :) I wouldn't ever trade with this person again, so it's not like they would have a chance to get me twice:)
p.s. I have had a time when I traded somewhere else that people flooded me with emails, warning me.

OH!!! and if I owe someone, please email me:) LOL!

This message was edited Wednesday, Jul 18th 8:38 AM

tig...sandy here...do i owe you something?? HEY..ehat are you waiting for from the trade, maybe i have it and can help anyway..
Sandy

LOL!! no Sandy, it really isn't anyone regular here:) I promise. As a matter of fact, I have some boxes due out that I can't get to yet, because of not being able to breath in this air, but my DH is going to do them Saturday. you're sweet!!!!

Tig, I've had three trades that didn't go well this year - two were seeds, one was plants (ouch). But, considering I traded and/or sent postage to thirty or more folks, not a bad win/loss ratio.

One trader was from GardenWeb; I waited several weeks, tried e-mailing her a couple times with no response. I posted an e-mail saying I was looking for her and I got several responses from others she had scammed also. I wrote it off as a total loss, and won't trade with her again. If you think we may be talking about the same person, e-mail me and we can compare notes, I won't post her name here.

Two trades were here - one person hasn't been heard from since, and I think her personal life may have overwhelmed her - I won't add to her mental overload for a few seeds, nor will I name any names on this one. (Besides, Elena, my neighbor and new friend gave me some plants anyway so I'm a happy camper on that one.)

The other one still e-mails me to tell me she's going to send them, so I haven't totally written it off, but I'm not holding my breath, either. Since this one is still pending, I won't embarass anyone by revealing who it is. I figure if one of these days a box with my plants arrive, it's a pleasant surprise, but if they don't, well life goes on.

My experience shows that by and large, plant and seed traders are incredibly generous and prompt. But if I'm absolutely counting on a particular seed or plant, I wouldn't rely on someone I hadn't traded with before - I'd do a repeat trade with somebody I know and trust, or I'd buy what I needed.

One source I've found is Tom Clothier - he's got a great selection of unusual flower seeds, and he sells them for $.50 per packet. I put a plug in for him wherever I can because as far as I can tell, he's just a backyard gardener, but he has a wonderful website with germination info, free photos, and is a good source for seeds.

And, ummmmmm, if I owe anyone a trade, please let me know! I was offline for a couple weeks, and I'm just now catching up on e-mails and other correspondence.

Hope it's not me. I always try to get my seeds out the very next day while it's fresh in my mind. There is a postal problem out there.I haven't received two trades that I'm pretty sure was sent out and one that got here torn almost in half,empty of any content with an apology from the PO.If I was completely sure this person was doing this deliberately I think I would e-mail them privately and let them know that this behavior isn't excepted by the garden traders. I have had fellow gardeners e-mail me privately about a rip off trader when I have offered seeds to them through their post.Just thank God for all the honest, generous traders out there that out weigh the few that have no intentions of holding up their end of the trade.

well, this was on another site. I hope that if I see this person writing you to trade, that you don't mind if I warn you:) And I praise God for all that's in my garden and seed box from some of the most wonderful people I've ever met:)

I only had one trade not fulfilled and it was someone at GW, however I cannot be quick to comment, because i still owe people rose bush starts and haven't gotten them out. Since my dogs got the first batch, the second is just coming along slower, so some times things just happen, that we have relatively no control over. Hopefully the person will see this tread and send them out....BTW..if i owe anyone anything (except roses..i know who you all are)..please cotact me, as my one minute memory does fail me sometimes
Sandy

[ Removed by member request. - Admin ]

One thing I like about eBay is their "customer feedback" section, where you can enter in comments for each person you do business with.

I've actually been considering a similar setup for DG since almost the beginning, but I just haven't gotten to it.

Now that trading season is starting again in full swing, maybe this would be a good idea?

Unfortunately Tig where you get 'free' trades you are going to get people who will try to get what they want without reciprocating or closing their end of the deal.

As for warning people, well I would hope that someone might email me to warn me, but then what if its just sour grapes over something else? Well I don't know the answer, I've recently had a bad trade too but I just try and remember that there are a whole lot of good people out there who have sent me wonderful things and I hope that I have been able to do the same for them.

you're right Baa, what if it was sour grapes just once, and ruined someone's rep? That wouldn't be good at all.

Thru my trades here on Dave's only one person has burned me.And then wrote 2x's to say she mailed it out.-I never got it.It did bother me to see them posting wanting more trades for things but there's no use in getting upset over something we have no control over.Just write it off as a bad trade,don't trade with them again and never trade something you can't afford to just give away.Then it doesent hurt so bad.

tiG,

Just blow them off and go on being your sweet self. You know who they are so just wipe them off any of your lists. Some times we all get caught up in way to many things at one time, and things do seem to slip through the cracks when that happens. Before we blacklist anyone, let's think about if maybe we forgot someone and it slipped through the crack of our memory. See what I mean?

Jerrie

My 2 cents...I got burned twice. Once with plants and once with seeds.

All is well. No hard feelings.


Neither occurred on Daves Garden. I haven't done much trading here, but what I have done has been MORE THAN GENEROUS.
Thanks to all, you're special people.

This message was edited Thursday, Jul 19th 10:44 AM

Removed by member request

Of course, MM! Wouldn't it be terrible to give your side of the story?

You're the only person who has commented on the idea, by the way. I'd like to get some more feedback on it, before implementing it, as it would affect all trading members.

I agree with alot of the responses and then totally agree with Jerrie' What I'm going to do is this..if NO response(SASE or E-mail) after a week,forget it' I know who scammed me and was on the GW and won't deal again with her' After several weeks(8) several e-mails asking if she perhaps was,"out of seeds,lost my e-mails" I received some seeds that I hadn't asked for' She TOTALLY put the blame on me and said"I should be happy with what she sent,anyways" If I request something,be honest but Don't FORCE whatever on me and say,I should be happy'''I wouldn't send anything before at least asking them or e-mailing them'And here's the "kicker",she threatened to "blacklist me" This is supposed to be fun,enjoying gardening,telling stories whatever and learning about growing plants'And posting a "thank you" is also a novel idea' LOL Sis''No sour grapes,just learned another good lesson,in Life's Garden'

Dave, I can see where it would have its pros and cons. It would be great to let people know about good and bad trades but I can see it being a problem as to what people consider a good trade. For example I sent out a trade and I felt was very fair but the person getting the trade didn't think there was enough seeds or the plant wasn't big enough etc. What one person considers a good trade somebody eles might not. And what if somebody is late with a trade , somebody might decide to leave feedback they are a bad trader and it could be that they got sick , family illness, death in the family all kinds of things so they aren't really a bad trader just a late one. The good feedback would be great and if you could have a way to monitor the negavtive feedback before it was posted to make sure it was accurate then it would be good too. And I agree it needs to have a place to be able to reply to the feedback....Hope this makes some sense.

I agree Mystic' Like right now,my server isn't working,my customers are ready to hang me from a tall oak tree and I'm helpless' I've posted my dilema to the forums and am telling them to answer me ON The Forums,as I'm stranded without e-mails' Good example right now''' Modems also go down,as we all know too' There should be a place Dave for us to "plead our cases" and let the chips fall where they may,so to speak'''Walk a mile in my moccasins as the saying goes before judging'' Just my 50cents'LOL

Dave,
I think a rating system such as eBay is a great idea! I also got burned (apparently) on a trade here on DG. It's frustrating to wait for seeds you really would like to try and not have them show up (it's been nearly 3 months). Although this person says they will be sent, it's well past the sowing date here in NH and even if I do get them I won't be able to get them in the ground until next year. Sooooo, a rating system sure has my vote!

Doglover,
No, it's not you, got your roses and they're doing fine! Thanks!

Removed by member request

Dave,
I agree with mystic, I worry that it will go "ugly" and cause bad feelings in our "happy home" here.... I LOVE our traders here, they are kind and generous people. I feel that the seeds and plants I get in trade are the best that they have to give, if they aren't as good as I'd hoped it's not because they were trying to cheat me.. just that they (for whatever reason) can not give me any better than they have... I guess that's simple of me, but it's better than thinking anyone's "out to get me" or cheat me. I'm sorry tiG was cheated.

tiG,
Please post what you need maybe I, or someone else, has it for you.

Perhaps it should be a positive rating system - giving somebody four "green thumbs" for superb trading, three for okay, two for so-so, one for not so great. An explanation of the criteria should be included - timeliness, generosity, inclusion of growing instructions, etc should all factor into someone's rating of a trade.

If it's possible, it'd be great to also know how many people had rated the trader. For example, someone with an average of three "thumbs" who had been rated by 100 people would probably be a safer bet than someone who had a rating of four "thumbs", but had been rated by only one person.

As far as being fair and allowing someone to defend against/rebut a negative opinion, I agree. I'd also say that if someone has a less-than-glowing rating, I'd be a little cautious in trading with them.

well, I do know that I try to keep my ebay rating spotless:) and that would keep us on our toes, but what if someone just got ticked? Do we want it to come to that? I don't know.
Would we know that a rating came from a regular? or someone who just dropped in? that makes a world of difference to me.

As for being cheated, I'm over that, it's not even why I posted this in the first place. What started all this is that I saw that person ask for more seeds from someone else. Maybe everything just fell apart for them, they didn't just ignore my emails, they did answer slowly, and with an excuse. I am a protector, and feel like I have to watch out for everybody else. That's not my job, and sometimes I forget:) sorry! (oh, and I have spent the day going through my emails to make sure I hadn't missed someone!!!!! )

I'd like to add a comment here...

This past year I've done literally hundreds of seed trades. For the most part, there are exceptional traders and those slower than slugs over salt. Some people needed a few emails for reminding, others kept poor records and just forgot, some had life emergencies or others just replied that the seeds got thrown away by accident. All I ever asked for was a simple.."I can't send them, sorry" and I understood.

Two incidents happened where I was ready to put the traders on my "Don't Trade" private list. One was in another country, where I mailed out a big padded envelope of tree seeds with $12.00 postage. I had never traded with this person and was skeptical to begin with. Well, her seeds never arrived and my seeds were long sent to her 4 months prior. My few emails were never answered by her. I told her mine were sent and where were hers? Finally I got my package returned, never opened! I emailed the trader and she thought I had never sent mine and I thought she got mine and was just getting over. We were both wrong about each other.

The other trade was simple flower seeds. I never heard from the trader, even a brief note to say she couldn't send them (which would have been fine for me..my seeds were long sent to her). I made a note to not trade with her again and I was more annoyed that she didn't have the decency to even email a reply. I let go of it and time passed..about 2 years. To my surprise, I received her seeds 2 years later..!..with a brief note with only the words "I'm sorry". I looked into my seed trade log where I once wrote "don't trade" and rewrote..someone with an exceptional conscience and character. I learned a lesson, for sure.
I know there are people who intentionally try to scam people for things and I think other traders should be clued in about them, however, my two experiences made me hold a rush judgement and remember that most people are good on the inside, too :)
Trish

Dave

I don't like the idea of any feedback forum either. My reason being that in the heat of not receiving seeds etc you may post something which is hurtful or unkind. Living across the atlantic my seeds are going to take longer to reach your shores along with traders from other countries and this may make us subject to bad feedback.

Secondly, as others have said it all depends on what you think is a good trade. I'm perfectly happy with 10 - 20 seeds of any plant I have asked for, others are not. I'm also happy with people taking a little time of their trade, there are all sorts of reasons things don't get in the post or emails answered on the same day. I'd rather the seeds got here than worry about the time its taking.

If a feedfback forum was introduced I would definitly not use it either way, I would seriously consider not trading too just in case customs ripped the pack open or confiscated it or it took a month to get there (as sometimes but rarely happens). It would just spoil the good feeling here.

Although I am new here, I feel the need to comment on this issue. I have been trading for a couple of years now and have found that life or sudden HOT weather, can slow up how quickly I send trades out. Sure would hate to be on a bad list, since I make every effort to get trades out. As for waiting on missing trades, I too am satisfied with an explanatory email...just let me know that something is up and either the trade will be late or you just can't do it. At another site, a positive feedback thread was posted, which at first seemed nice, but then not everyone participated, so really terrific traders did not get put on the lists. Some people were afraid to trade with anyone who wasn't listed, so in a round-about way, good traders were being blacklisted!

Everyone gets "burned" now and then, I have been and it was on this site just recently. But I think the rating system is a bad idea, please remember that e-bay is for profit, trading is for fun. Do not trade what you can't afford to lose. I can see way to many problems stemming from any kind of rating system, for lots of reasons already mentioned as well as others. What someone considers to take too long is prompt to someone else, etc. While the idea of "rating" is ok, I would hate to think I could be considered not so good because I failed to include growing instructions or I didn't throw in and extra pack that I might not have at that moment. As mentioned already, what one considers a good trade is not always good to someone else. In my opinion if I simply receive what ever the trade was, weather the postage for a box I sent or the plant/seeds I wanted, then it's a good trade. While extras are fun and getting it within a couple of days is great, if that don't happen I don't think it is a bad trade. Sometimes life just happens, it is unavoidable.

tiG...just wanted you to know that I am still babying those MG trees along for you. My daughter spilled some bubble fluid into one and the lower leaves are starting to yellow :-( but the other one is doing great. Still not enough of a root system to risk sending them on a trip to Georgia.

BTW, I did some research and they are actually ipomoea fistulosa, a rare MG bush. Reportedly, this plant bears lavender blooms but I was told that mine would bear dark purple blooms. Can't wait to see what actually happens!

The one I potted up into a large pot is growing like a weed, approaching 2' tall and sending out side branches that are dwarfing the main stem! The one in the ground is kinda dormant.

Sorry, folks, I have no seeds to offer...I have contacted a seller of rare seeds and they are interested if I can come up with quantity. I am already salivating over what I can obtain in trade from them ;-) And it probably won't even set seed.

dear sweet alison, you were not the person I was talking about!!! :) The trade that I mentioned in the beginning didn't happen here. That person has contacted me and we're trying to get it straight, due to this post. Are you positive that you want to send a rare tree??? I wouldn't expect it, and wouldn't hold any ill will. I promise:) Alison, are you interested in a brug for it? Just let me know, even if you want to keep the tree.

I like the E-Bay rating system because it makes it easy to deal with the people with positive feedback. Such a system on the DG site should have the same effect.One vote in favor...now if I can just find that missing chad!

Oh, no; I never thought that you meant me...after all, we're not trading ;-) And yes, I really do want to send them to you! I liked the way you wanted to save them from the compost pile. No brugs, thanks, I'm perfectly happy with my daturas. Hoping to see blooms on my double yellow soon...yipee!!!

On topic: I've only been burned three times in four years. Lucky, I guess. The last one really irritated me because this person was double posting (and who knows, maybe more), once as himself and once as a young girl, new to gardening, in need of seeds. I sent a large amount of seeds to her. When I noticed that the addresses were the same I commented that I had sent seeds to his daughter. He replied that his daughter wasn't interested in gardening, that the seeds were for him. Then he never sent his part of our trade!

I got double yellow seeds too late to start this year, be sure and post pictures!!!!
for those wanting to express their opinions on a rating system, there is a thread in Dave's Garden forum, in case you missed it. Lots of good stuff there.

I'm of two minds regarding the feedback option.

On the one hand, it sure feels nice when someone says something nice about you, and working for positive feedback could be an extra incentive for prompt and generous trading.

On the other, some things are just beyond your control, and negative feedback can really hurt.

I love the Trade-Tracker. I would have never managed all the trades I have completed in so short a time without it. But there are still a handful of troublesome trades that are difficult to complete that come up when I click on the Trades You Still Need To Send screen.

One person is traveling and the hosta I took up for her will probably be dead by the time she gets back. I just can't find the promised seeds for another trade, though I expect to come across them any day. I already have what I was looking for in another trade, so it was kind of called off, but I keep thinking that I'll send some seeds anyway. And on one trade, I received the seeds before I sent off my packet, but the seeds I received were misidentified, old, moldy and mostly crushed! In that case, it is really hard for me to get motivated to send my part of the trade, especially since it was plants for seeds. I don't really hold it against that person too much because I kinda think that she didn't know any better. But I would understand if she became frustrated and gave negative feedback on me.

In short, it's just hard to complete some trades, and unfair flames can unjustly damage one's reputation as a trader.

hey
Just wanted to throw in what little sence I have left.When
I first found this site I was amazed at the kindness and love of the people here.I started out here trying to learn and become less depressed.but I found myself in one family illness after another.I did'nt come to this site expecting to become as ill as I have the last 3 months.I have held on here to give me a reason to not give up on life.but after reading the posts i can say that I have lost emails not mailed on time to see tht it is not other people
job to take care of me.I am sitting here wondering where do I fit in life and I can't find a answer !I am truely sorry if i have let anyone down, nana th herblady

Nana, you haven't let a soul down!!! Pick yourself up, and know that you fit in HERE!!! You couldn't help what all has gone on with you in the past few months. We love you!!!!!!

When you put something in the mail you are really taking a chance on not getting anything back. Everyone I have had any dealings with here has always left me feeling that I gave them the short end of the stick. However, if they got what they wanted they probably feel the same way. I have a few things that haven't been completed and if I know it is easy with the problems of life to forget. Some things I think priority is family and sickness. However, an email informing that person of a problem doesn't take that much time and I would probably respond with forget what you owe me. Then I would be upset if that person posted again for a trade and I would email them and tell them if I didn't receive what was due me I would be posting about them to all the people that responded to their posting with email to these people. I hope it is a problem I never have.

Entirely off the original thread, but---I was intrigued by
Alison's mention of the Tree MG/Ipomoea fistulosa, and I did some reseach too.I found a great site at http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/plantanswers/00promotions/morningglory/morningglory.html . They were even offering seed, if anyone's interested, but they were for the pink, not the dark purple Alison has. I was so taken with this I just HAD to share it.