Two part question- dirt issues and algae

We have a (roughly) 350 gallon concrete pond we inherited with our house. The backyard slopes quite a bit and the pond is right up against the house. So when it rains, the water runs off the roof (no gutters) and splashes dirt all in the pond. Further, in the high area, the dirt line is even with the edge of the pond and that dirt runs in as well. I would say around 3/4 of the pond (or more) the dirt line is down below the concrete lip so that isn't an issue. I have goldfish in there but that's it. So, it always stinks, it's always muddy, and it has algae everywhere. It is also under a Southern Magnolia, so we have the added issue of junk dumping in it all the time. The pond is about 16 feet long and 3 feet wide at the widest part (straight line for the back edge, then curvy shaped all the way around from there). So here are my questions.

1. Can we put a run of the mill algae eater fish in the pond? It never freezes over, not even an ice crystal in the winter. But I don't know if they can live in cold water like goldfish. If not, what if we ran a heater in it in the winter? My husband is set on a algae eater but I don't know if that is possible. As a kid in Oklahoma, they caught a HUGE one in the nasty creek behind his parents' house so he is convinced it will live.

2. What can we do about the mud?! I mean it gets NASTY! I am going to dig out the dirt around that high-end and thought of putting gravel down on the area between the house and the edge of the pond to stop the roof run-off issue. I think if I am more dilagent about netting off the leaves and debris a few times a week, and maybe running my vacuum thingy once a week or so, it would help. As of today we have drained it completey with a sump pump and are shoveling TONS of nasty muck out of the bottom. That leads me to a "2a" question- is it necessary to totally drain a pond every year regardless? If so, I still would like to limit the amount of gunk I am scooping out, plus, I would like it to look nice and not reek the rest of the time.

ANY thoughts or advice is appreciated!!!

Thanks,

Jamie

PS- if you were following my thread last spring when I first started renovating the pond and wondered why I haven't updated, well this is it. It isn't pretty yet! I do have some plants around the edges and DH is putting my beautiful cobalt blue urn in for my water feature today (finally). But the water is gross still and the plants not filled in. :(

I would think , your biggest problem is the runoff from the roof washing dirt right into the pond. Probably too much for the eccosystem of your pond to absorbe. It didn't sound like the pond was totaly out in the sun. however some floating plants would help to shade and to help keep the pond in balance, The fish waste and much of the decaying stuff can be digested in a biological filter. or even just a waterfall filter. if you have enough good bacteria you could give it a boost with microbe lift
The liquid smells like rotten egg, but that smell goes away. the powder you don't get the smell but it takes a little longer to get the proper bacteria balance.
I know I haven't been much help yet but not knowing if you have a filtration system or not I don't really have much to go on. You could go on google and type in pond doc and get a lot of answers there.

My theary is water, circulation, plants and fish. Fish feed the plants water circulates the nutriants to the plants which clean up the water for the fish. Russ

Thanks Russ-

I guess I forgot to mention that. I do have a filter. It is just the kind you can buy at Home Depot with the "bioballs" in it and 2 thick pads for filtration. But I can rinse it out once a week and it is just THICK in mud. I do have some plants in the pond (pickerel weed mostly). Since the pond is smack under a magnolia tree and the backyard is shady anyway (2 live oaks on top of that), I can't have any water lilies. It is a shady pond for sure! My biggest issue is mud!

Well the mud problem would surely be the runoff. However if you have Koi and dirt in pots for the plants, the koi love to root in the dirt to get at the roots. I think you will either need to invest in rain gutters, or build a birm to keep the water from flowing from your roof and washing right into the pond.
I would attack that first then decide if algae is a problem. I am told that tadpols are real algae gobblers; but I'm not in the know on that.
The floating lettuce will grow well in the shade. Their root system will help with a lot of the filtering of the nutrients created by the bactiera when they decompose the fish waste.. Sorry I'm still no help huh.

I would think that the pleco (algea eater) would live in your pond...I believe I have read that they will die if pond temps go below 50. I doubt that he will do alot for your problem though.

Foreign "stuff" washing in your pond is always big trouble. Gotta come up with some way to keep it out of the pond. No telling what type of bacteria goodies are getting in from the mud, roof water etc. Fixing the high dirt end shouldnt be too much trouble..the roof water may be another matter.

My sister has a pond under trees and she mounted at pond net high over the pond... about 10 feet up or so...course she has to take it down about once a year to clean it.

No...you dont have to completely drain you pond each year but you dont want much to build up too deep in the bottom. Also,,,when you stir all that muck up trying to remove it...you can release dangerous bacteria in the upper water and thats bad for your fish !

sorry but I dont think there is an "easy" fix for the problem but in my opinion you need to :
1) do something to keep all runoff water out of the pond ( could you bury some irrigation (big black holey stuff) pipe along that edge of the pond with gravel on top of the pipe and then drain that water away....? cheaper than gutters.

2) buy a good pond vac....like the Oasis Pond Vac or something similar (or build one ) that you can use to vac out the pond without adding water at the same time.

charlotte :)

Jamie,
Do you have a picture of the area? I might suggest something to stop the drainage, but it may not apply.
I agree with the previous posts, there is no easy fix for the muck. It must be drained to get off on a good foot. You need to pull out some water and put in a deep tub with a diffuser pump to create oxygen for the fish (in shade). Then catch all the fish you can and put a sump pump in the pond and drain it. Don't stir the water anymore than necessary until you are sure all of the fish are out. Use a pressure washer or jet hose attachment if you really have a bad build up. Don't try to get the surface completely clean, a little algae will provide a good start for your new bio-system. Mainly concentrate on dipping out the leaves, magnolia seed pods, etc.; they are the problem items, and cause nitrogen build up.
Make sure you add a chemical to get rid of the chlorine in tap water when refilling. Then add a bacterial enzyme to set up your pond so it can work to breakdown the debris that remains. Make sure the temperatures are equal in the pond and holding tank before introducing the fish again, or float the container for 30 minutes before dipping them out.
Our pond is underneath a oak tree and when it is dropping leaves, I will put a netting over the pond to avoid getting unecessary debris in the water. Also keep a net close by and dip out leaves that you notice when you feed the fish each day. Debris sounds like your main problem.
As for the algea eater, I tried that. I killed it the first cold spell that hit. I couldn't notice where he did much to help clean the pond and there was no way I could catch him and bring him inside, they are very quick.
Oh, and don't clean the bio-balls too good, just rinse the foam filters and quickly dump the debris from the box. They have a bio-system in the holes that you need for a healty pond. It sounds like a lot of work, but if you are ready with everything you need, you can do it in a few hours. Just wait until an overcast day, or early in the morning before that 90+ temp we are having gets you. Hopefully you can get a handle on it and begin to enjoy your pond!

Thanks! And you want pictures, oh I've got 'em! I posted these last year when I first started this project. It was a sess pool. We do have a sump pump, and drained it, patched the holes, refilled it, let it cycle for 30 days, and added the goldfish (no koi- not big enough).

To clarify-

1. I already DID drain, clean, and refill the pond. That was last weekend. Let me add here that I am now 5 1/2 months pregnant so my poor DH did the dirty work this time and he freaks out about me messing around out there. I am really clumsy these days and he thinks I will fall, hit my head and drown. :)

2. I do have a net nearby, but don't use it near as much as I should.

3. The roof water does NOT flow directly INTO the pond. The problem is, between the house and pond is about a foot of space that is ALL DIRT. Without gutters, the water runs off the roof and by hitting that dirt, the DIRT splashes into the pond. There is a concrete edging that keeps the water from just simply GUSHING in. It's the "drip, drip, drip" onto the dirt and into the pond. Gutters ARE on our list of things we need to do, it just hasn't been top priority.

4. I clean my pump once a week. This pond has been setup for over a year now so it isn't all new. I wash the foam really well, but just rinse the gunk off the bioballs. I understand that you WANT those bacteria to grow in there. The good kind that is.

5. We had about 16 bullfrogs last fall and they laid TONS of eggs. That pond was chalk full of tadpoles. Sooo what you heard was correct- they are some algae eating fools!!!! :)

Anyway, here is a picture. This is before we got started last year draining it for the first time. Previous owners had attempted to keep it drained by using a jackhammer to knock holes in the bottom. But all that did was create a sloooow drain anytime it rained so it was always just a little full of water. It was either renovate and use it, or fill it in. I can tell it was a professional job, and I think the shape is pretty and unique. I just hated to fill it in without trying to use it first. Also, our house is 80 years old and the sunroom at the back of the house is a new(ish) addition. I am pretty sure the pond was there first. So they just did a dumb thing (IMO) by building onto the house sooo close to the pond... and to a Southern Magnolia for that matter!

Edited to add that water lettuce is considered invasive in Texas so I can't purchase it locally nor order it. A DGer gave me some last year (shame on us) and it died out. So much for "invasive!" The pickerel weed does awesome and right now I also have a corkscrew rush and 2 umbrella plants actually IN the pond.

This message was edited May 24, 2006 10:22 PM

Here is me cleaning it out last time- I was wrong. It has been right AT a year- this was early June 2005.

And here it is a month later (last July) after patching the holes, painting it with a fish-safe, pond approved concrete sealer (wish it wasn't white). Plants around the edges and my dog Apollo staring at the fish. :)

I will take a few shots tomorrow and try to get those posted. But it's clean again and looks pretty much like this now. I just want to KEEP IT THAT WAY and not have to drain and clean it again this time next year. That is just BRUTAL!

Thanks again for looking and for the advice.

Jamie

I know you don't want to do more work, but if it were mine, I would take the opportunity now that it is clean and build up the edges and put in a felt liner and 45 mil pond liner. Top the liner with more pavestones to hold it in place. That way, you would never have a drainage problem again. If you put the pavestones along the house, the area there would create a shelf for you to use as a plant shelf.
Or another option to build up, would be with dirt burms around the edge, with the pond liner over them, and secured with heavy stones.
Even if you don't address your drainage problem, I would definately invest in a net for fall or whenever your magnolia is dropping leaves,etc. That would be #1 on my list.

Do you mean a liner IN the pond? We considered that a year ago, but see those rocks around the edges? Those are set IN the concrete! They would tear holes in the liner for sure and we didn't want to remove them. But you're right- it would sure keep the dirt from the edges from washing in! If I am out there this time next year draining that thing AGAIN, I will for sure take your advice. I am just really trying to avoid a liner. That is why we painted that sealer stuff in there. I do like your idea of stones. I could dig out all the way around the pond's edge and add stones at a raised grade to the dirt. Big plans for a gal who is going to be in her third trimester in the heat of summer, in TEXAS! (wink). That idea about building UP the edge and putting a liner over them is great too! I think I could get some sort of concrete filler, sealant, etc. first and squirt that between the edges of all those decorative rocks around the edges. Then build the burm and cover it with a liner. Then more stones on top of that. As to my magnolia, well, it drops leaves ALL THE TIME!!! From heat of summer to dead of winter trash, trash, trash. :( Honestly, if I just skim the pond with my net daily, it takes me all of 5 minutes. I have to feed the fish anyway so it's like a 10 minute task. I just wasn't dilagent the past year. I will be now! But, true story- my net snapped at the handle just as we scooped out the last fish to clean this weekend. Sooo now I have to get a net. The leaves are already starting to build up. But, they are big and waxy so it isn't like they breakdown real fast. Those and the seed pods stay firm so I can scoop them easily. It's the dirt in the bottom that you can simply remove and that is why I obsess over that part!

Thanks again for your suggestions! I really do appreciate it and hope it doesn't come across like I shoot down everything that is suggested! Ha!

Jamie

Jamie;
Am I looking at a dip in the edge of the pond where the water can just run in. That's the pic with your 4 legged friend examining the pond. Sort of looks like it has washed right to the pond.
If that is the case I would " not right now" build up That low area in the edge of the pond and maybe reroute that little ditch that has the leaves in it to flow out away from the house. Some times a pic can deceive the one looking at it. Therefore I was just trying to fix what it looked like. That is a rather unique design and would fit into a backyard garden scene very nicely. Just looks like it is right at ground level and subject to run off problems.
Thanks for sharing, I hope you have enough info now to fix the problem, after some much deserved rest. You may have to share a pic of the little one too. : )

Jamie, I am going to dmail a few pictures of a temp pond and our perm. pond that may explain my liner and pavestone suggestions.

randb- you are exactly right! That IS the lowest end of the pond and yes, water/dirt run right in it. Since that pic, we have dug the trench deeper and angled it away from the pond. I put one of those little plastic grate things in the hole right up to the pond and attached drainage pipe (that flex stuff with holes in it) to it. Then we ran that down the length of the trench. We did cover it in the stuff that keeps the holes unplugged. That trench runs out from the pond and has gravel it in. Then we covered in dirt. It is actually working quite nicely when the pond overflows from rain and keeps backflow out. That's why I didn't mention it- that problem has been fixed already... one down, how many to go??? :) Yep- for sure will post pics once I am done and of my little gal once she gets here!

Sheila- look forward to the pictures!

Jamie