English Ivy Offer

I am faced with the task of cutting back my English Ivy patch, as it slowly encroaches on the rest of my yard. This is hardy, deep green in color & will establish itself as a ground cover over time. This is the Ivy that is shown growing up the sides of old homes & universities. The vines are rooted at intervals, & should be watered for the first 1-2 months after planting. It grows best in full to partial shade, & is drought tolerant once established. Some people insist this plant is invasive, but it took over 30 years before it began to creep into the yard! I can trade for plants or postage. I am always looking for variegated Hostas, ferns, tropicals - or whatever you would like to offer.
Julie

Julie, I'm sure you'll find a taker for your ivy. It IS invasive, but not unless you allow it to climb up something like a tree or a wall. Then it will flower. Then the seeds are eaten by birds and distributed everywhere. As long as you keep it on the 'ground', it's no problem and a nice ground cover.

I do cut it off the trees each Spring, but as I said - it took many years to spread this much. I adore it - no mowing in Summer, no raking in Fall, & it stays green all Winter. No weeds grow through it either. It looks like a secluded paradise in the shaded area, with the earth covered in Ivy :)

I thought the same thing about it, JRush, when we bought our house two years ago. There is (well, was, as I've been tearing at it periodically) a large patch that was crawling up the big trees near the house. My admiration when three GIANT black locusts, covered with the stuff, came down on another part of the property the first winter here. Now I've learned how invasive and tenacious it is and am not excited about the prospect of removal from two overgrown acres. Perhaps zones make a difference in it's control.

Some other discussions on DG:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/587018/
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/588274/

This message was edited May 26, 2006 9:04 PM

The Athens, GA Botanical Garden has just recently proclaimed it as invasive in GA and had a workday to remove it from their gardens. I had planted some two years ago in my own garden and am find it to be a very slow grower. Nevertheless, I'm planning to remove it so if anyone is interested in having some, let me know and I will send it to you for postage. I think there are 5-6 plants.

JoAnn

It's invasive in lots of states. Just curious - why spread it? I've just learned that I traded for invasives, as well as purchased some outright from nurseries, and have given some away as well! Once informed, how can one, in good conscience, continue to add to the problem? It's more than just one person's yard or even neighborhood we're thinking about. It's where it goes when seeds spread via birds, wind, weather, etc.

http://www.nps.gov/plants/alien/list/h.htm
http://www.noivyleague.com/index.html

The Invasives forum is very informative.

Many plants are invasive in warmer climates - we actually enjoy some of the more notorious plants here. I am amazed at how many I see when I research a plant in the PlantDatabase - plants that grow normally here, that are troublesome elsewhere. English Ivy is not a thug in New England states, so it is not considered an invasive here. Zones 6 & below are safe to plant this lovely ivy without fear, with minimal care. It grows side by side with Pachysandra, & their growth habit is alike. They look beautiful together! What would Yale be, without that gorgeous ivy covering its walls?

It's absolutely gorgeous, JRush - sad that it can be so destructive in so many places. I think I counted 23 states in which it was considered invasive. There's an advantage to living in cold areas.

Here is a shot of black locust trees taken down by ivy on our place. It's hard to tell, but all those trees are much bigger than I can reach around, and my wing span is 6'. After these came down, I actively started getting the ivy out of the trees near our house and doing the research about it.

I am in zone 5b/6, and this horrible plant IS INVASIVE here! It grew under the siding on my neighbor's house and popped it off. They had to spend THOUSANDS of dollars to get their house repaired and eradicate this plant from their yards. YES, it IS invasive and destructive in zones lower than 6!

Before I give my opinion I must admit that for the most part I don't believe in the "bioinvasion" theory.

I don't believe people should be criticized for offering plants considered to be "invasive", for a few reasons.

Plants can be contained in various ways- root barriers, pots, growing plants in the house or greenhouse, or keeping it from spreading by weeding, mowing, etc(I don't really believe in herbicides except as a last resort). Running bamboo is an excellent example. It really isn't that hard to contain Ivy in your yard if you want to.

Often plants that grow rampant in certain conditions and will not spread so much elsewhere (cold winters, drought, lack of summer heat, shade, summer/winter rainfall patterns, soil type, etc.)

I believe that there is an "invasion hysteria". Any plant which escapes cultivation, let alone naturalizes, is likely to be on the list of an exotic pest plant council or other such group. These include many beautiful, useful, and sometimes beloved plants, such as Eucalyptus globulus here in California. The standard of evidence is often that the plant is not "native". I would hate to see people becoming reluctant to trade/sell plants considered "invasive" by some. Certain otherwise excellent nurseries (my opinion) will not ship plants that they SUSPECT might be "invasive", and sometimes just plants in the same genus as naturalized species.

As for English Ivy, based on my observations I do not believe it to be the problem people say it is in northern coastal California, ideal habitat for the species. It can weight down vulnerable trees and can sometimes shade out smaller trees, though this doesn't seem to happen very much in healthy forest here. It doesn't "strangle" trees just by climbing on them, a popular belief. In many forest ecosystems around the world, vines compete with and sometimes kill trees. Many native shrubs and forest herbs can compete successfully with Ivy in healthy forest. Disturbed, compacted soil is usually where Ivy is most dominant. It would certainly take hundreds of years for Ivy to spread far inland from human habitations.

This message was edited May 29, 2006 1:15 PM

Cerox,
Giving you a standing ovation here in Georgia!!

Well - my offer still stands for this plant - it is easier to maintain & control than MANY of my garden flowers, & is not a threat to anyone else's property. After 30 plus years, the Ivy has not grown in an aggressive or unmanageable manner. I certainly would not impose a thug plant onto unsuspecting gardeners! I cannot say the same for Obedient Plants.... I had to rip them all out after a single year. They are happily growing in a big pot now - contained & ever gorgeous. No Obedients leave my garden - without a red warning sticker on them!

Birds?
Rain?
Feet/paws?
Wind?
:.. (
sigh

Although it reproduces and spreads vegetatively, you did hit upon some of the means by which the seed can be spread. The most common dispersal mechanism is birds. The fruits of this plant are eaten by European Starlings, English House Sparrows, Robins, Jays, and Cedar Waxwings to name a few and when they poop them out over natural areas that can be miles away from our neat and tidy and well tended gardens... they are in ready made fertilizer packs of bird poop.

This might be of interest to you 4paws-
http://www.noivyleague.com/Pages/english_ivy.html

Very nice PowerPoint presentation, I think you will like it.

Thank you - I found it about the same time I joined DG in February months ago, when it dawned on me that the ivy was really wrecking some havoc around here and I started to research. I also remembered that my neighbor in WI had told me she had to replace the siding on her house because of ivy.

I had asked the guys who were building me a new section of fencing if they could get rid of it for me, and they just shook their heads, saying they hated doing it. If I can't hire someone to do it, that leaves me, so, I was arming myself with knowledge (what else when it's pouring down rain in the winter?)

It seems I've been successful at stopping what was going up the pepperwood and dogwoods near the house, and cleared a15x30 area, plus enlisted round-up to slow it's progress down the hill. But on the land that has been neglected and abused for a decade or more, where the fallen trees are - I can't even think about it.

This morning, I found scat with seeds it in in the driveway, but there are no fruits yet for "our" bear. I guessed the seeds were ivy, so there's another way of spreading.

I planted 100 plugs a while ago and it really limped along for a while but finally took off. I got rid of almost all of my ivy last year. Nanner nanner nanner ;) Every once in a while I find a sprig of it trying to poke out and I nuke it immediately. I served my time ridding myself of that beast and every once in a while I hear of volunteers from other organizations running into it and I sit there being thankful that none of our volunteers are stuck getting rid of it. I swear a wreath of that stuff on your front door would probably come to life and work its way through and into your house.

lol
sounds like a sci-fi flick.

Talk about Sci-fi, have you seen this thread-
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/604411/

That should be good for a giggle or two.

Point made.

This message was edited May 30, 2006 3:07 PM

lol

Edited to add -
response to the "feel" verses "think"...
I think no one was referring to feelings, so it seemed the remark was not serious. I misinterpreted it.

Also, if this thread was hijacked, it was unintended. Each must make her own decision based on facts of anything. Seems like lots of facts were tossed about.


This message was edited May 29, 2006 10:29 PM

I'm truly sorry gregr18 feels the way he does too and that is not meant as a slam. I did sincerely intend to type the word feel. A plant was offered and several members felt compelled to post how they felt about Ivy in this thread. Barring whether or not the plant is deemed to be an invasive species or not, people took the time to share personal experiences they had with the plant. We all subscribe to different belief systems which in part are shaped by our past experiences. I see countless threads out there where other members care enough to take the time to share their personal experiences regarding a plant and as noted by gregr18, plants are being offered for “trade that others are free to accept or reject”. Therefore I did truly feel bad for the people who did not have positive experiences with this plant being all but referred to as suffering from invasion hysteria which was seconded by another member. The personal experiences of those who posted that they had concerns with this species are just that, their personal experiences.

It appeared to me members were attacking the plant and not each other until a more recent post was added. 4paws is new and she appears to have a sincere interest in acquiring enough information to make educated decisions for herself on what and what not to plant on her property. Was there anything so wrong with providing her with a link to the Power Point presentation? I for one resent the cost of the chemicals to kill off my Ivy as well as the cost associated with replacing all the plants I had purchased and planted with the Ivy that died when they were choked out. I am even more resentful of the time element associated with having to remove all the English Ivy I had here when it began to work its way underneath my sidewalk. Admittedly, I probably would have planted the Ivy anyway even if a whole slew of people had told me not to plant Ivy because they were very attractive to me and I had no idea they were going to heave my concrete sidewalk in such a short period of time. The possibility does exist that if I had been at least exposed to the “issues” associated with this plant’s ability to lift concrete which ultimately cost me $$$ removing and re-pouring… that maybe… just maybe… I would have planted something else. Who knows, I’m as stubborn as the next person and that English Ivy sure is attractive and I suppose I am one of those people who had to get hit in the wallet to learn first hand that English Ivy may be a very attractive plant… but it is considerably more difficult to contain for some than others would have us believe.

Perhaps it is time for us to focus on what unites as opposed to what divides We all love gardening and we come from all walks of life with a multitude of experiences that we are gathered to share here at Dave’s Garden.

JRush,

You are one of the most considerate people on DG. I'm sorry this thread has gotten so out of hand.

Judy

.. JRush/Julie ..

I am one of those that has read your initial post in its entirety .. and, have taken your offer very seriously, with no hesitation! I would be very interested in taking as much of your English Ivy off your hands as you'd like (and/or that I can feasibly afford).

I've been trying diligently for the last 6+ years to get some of it to take hold here .. but it won't! That is to say .. in the area of a steep hilly area of which it would be most welcome to roam and grow to its hearts content. Then again, maybe 'mostly sunny' .. is not its ideal preference.

However, I have nothing to offer to you, in return .. (well, except that of several small Red Bud trees of which perhaps some may feel is invasive, also). * With that matter of possible contention being discussed no further here, either!

And so .. should 'postage' be the only alternative to acquire the ivy - we can then continue our discussion via other means.

Let me know, for I am 'in the dark' about such practices and trades, Julie ...

And I thank you so much .. for posting!

- Magpye

I was the recipient of some of Jrush's ivy a fw yrs ago. I needed a fast growing vine to cover an ugly homemade barrier. The ivy is doing just that- albeit slowly. I have lawn on one side of it and asphalt on the other. Don't foresee the Ivy taking over as long as we aren't too lazy to mow the grass.

THANKS Julie for your generosity!!

I live near Boston; surely you've heard of Boston Ivy? I don't know why I should pay for it at HD; it sounds like the perfect ground cover for my 'difficult' hill. And yes, I know the hard work the people across the river at Harvard had removing their famous ivy from all their brick work and repointing. Let me talk to my DH; he may have strong feelings one way or the other. But I may take you up on your trade, JRush.

xxxxx, Carrie

Oh, oops, looks like I missed.... Good luck to all with your ivy, and notivy.

xxxxx, Carrie

Magpye - I can stuff a good amount into a box, for about $10. Or I can send less - whatever you could use, I can provide. It will take a couple of years to really establish itself, & then it will be self- sufficient. No mowing, no weeds, no watering, no raking, & the falling leaves mulch it naturally. It all depends where you are, whether this plant is a friend or foe. Another point to be made - I accidentally sprayed some Round Up onto some Ivy leaves, & I lost a section. Just a little mist - it destroyed a small patch. A clump of heavy leaves will do the same. Carrie - you are welcome to whatever you would like as well.
Julie

Hi. I would like to make a few comments, based on experience.

English Ivy is a wonderful groundcover with one important caveat: It needs to be contained in an area which can be edged once or twice a year and mowed every few years. No trees, shrubs, bulbs, or other perennials or annuals should be in the area unless you enjoy clipping the ivy away from them on a continual basis.

I too, planted some nearly 20 years ago. Now I have perhaps a half acre of it. It is totally out of hand in a couple of wooded areas, where it happily spreads in the fallen leaves. Once I realized how it was taking over, I eliminated it entirely from several areas to minimize the maintenance. In other places, I spend a ridiculous amount of time trying to contain it.

I still love it, though. It looks great all fall and winter when other areas are a drab gray or brown. Once established, it needs no water or fertilizer or spraying.
http://davesgarden.com/pf/showimage/24865/


One other observation: If you let it get out of hand, the growth is very thick (as much as a foot high over time). This makes a wonderful habitat for rodents of all kinds and the snakes that like to eat them.

I have some feelings of fear and guilt that when I get too old to keep it in check, it will devour everything! So please, for your own sake, be smart about where you plant it. It takes a few years and then BAM! it runs 8 feet or more a year in all directions.

Happy gardening,
Toxi

Ceroxycon......well said!

I do plant among the Ivy - Daffodils do great. I have Lilac, Burning Bush, Hydrangea, Iris, Daylilies - all interplanted. I do remove any vines that grow near the base of the Hydrangeas, & clip any vines that creep up the trees. But the rest is a quick mowing. I trim along the driveway & road, just to make it look neat. Right now the Ivy is deep & lush - the nicest time of the year for this plant! It looks wonderful - if it was not pouring rain I could post some photos...

I can attest that it does look gorgeous over there and never seems to be taking over anything! I'm just jealous that I cannot get it to take here!

What about all this rain, Julie? Had enough yet??? I know - I was begging for it a few days, but I WAS hoping to see the sun at some point this weekend.

See ya in a couple of weeks!

I kind of wish I was into growing mushrooms right now :)

LOL! PekeBoo likes the rain, but Hannibal doesn't - AT ALL. I keep waiting for a break so I can get them out for their afternoon walk. I did look over at the raised bed garden and the tomatoes are growing in leaps and bounds...nice!

Julie, I don't want ivy but just wanted to lend my support.
I think if nurseries can sell the stuff, Julie shouldn't be harassed for offering it in trade.
Dave

Hi, Just found this thread and have to offer my 2 cents. Please read my post about this miss identified Ivy. http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/1637/index.html We live in the woods and there is very little flat land on our 2 1/2 acres. We have Ivy and Vinca growing on the hillsides and I love it. We would not have green if it weren't for these plants. I suppose if I had a small property Ivy would not be the best choice. I think folks need to research any plant, shrub, tree before they plant it. I am presently looking to plant a tree in front of my house. But I don't want it to grow more than approximately 15' tall. So, for that reason I am not looking at Oaks, Ginko's, maples.... It doesn't mean these are 'bad trees' they just are not right for my spot.
There are places in this world where Ivy is a great choice but probably most places it's not. FYI nurseries around here get $18/flat for it.
Shady

Lowe's has it "on sale" this week, $9.95 for a six-pack, less than 1/4th of what you will get in Julie's Flat Rate Box.