Salinity in ponds

What should the salinity be in the pond? I have a few sick fish and need to get the salinity up but don't know what it should be or how high I can take it without hurting plants/fish. I can't go by the label on aquarium salt to dose it because my pond is so big it would take several containers of the aquarium salt to budge the salinity, plus, I had already added a little as I do every year but didn't measure because it was just a little. I have chunks of salt not granules that someone gave to my Mom, she's been using it in her pond several years. I do have a salinity meter. I added Melafix today.
Thanks,
Lana

Do you have Koi? I just put in several about a week ago and have one dying as we speak. I need to find out why and maybe test my water not sure I'm new to this. Have had huge goldfish for years and seldom loose them I hope I'm not over my head with trying the Koi
Kim

Depends on where you got your fish and how much stress they were under before you got them, ie: how many times they were moved/shipped right before you got them. Under times of stress they can lose their slime coat which leaves them open to illnesses.

Lana

This time of year if you buy them off of a fish truck at a co-op they are weak and very stressed, they are not feeding very well and still a little slow from the water temp. I bought 15 about 2 weeks ago and I have 4 left. The one that died all died within days, starting the day I got them home. I knew they looked a little sad but I had the kid with me and they wanted fish so I gave in ... I know! Anyway I called the vendor and they said they would replace all 15 next time they were in town and explained the time of year and the stress levels was the main factor and more or less expected loss these time of year. (Which makes me wonder why sell them if you know they're going to die?) So with luck the next bunch will be better, I'm just happy the vendor stood behind their product. At $6 each which is cheap for 6"-8" Koi I still hate dipping out money and putting it in the compost.

I bought these on Ebay from a reputable dealer they all looked good and were active but haven't seen them come up and eat as much as my big gold fish but they may be eating some of the excess that floats around not sure. The seller actually sent me 2 extra in the reg. koi and one extra butterfly Koi. They were sent overnight air but did come from calif. and I'm sure it was much warmer but I did acclimate them slowly to the temperature difference and water changes as I had read. My pond is very large about 15000 gal at least on the top level not sure on the smaller one below but only use it for the babies mostly and the lily pads. The rest seem happy can't get many to come to the side but they are starting to recognize me when its feeding time I think they are all about 7 inches. I think these were 7-10 dollars each but shipping was 90.00.
Kim

New fish will hide for quite a while.

Just checking in to see where you able to clear up your fish health issues?

Yes, thanks for asking. Either the disease ran it's course or I finally got the salinity high enough but I quit loosing fish. I'm left with 8 out of over 30 beautiful fish. My 3 most expensive Koi were spared. That was unusual. I purchased the trio from ebay they were super healthy and active when I got them, never had a bit of trouble when I added them to the pond and now they have survived the outbreak so I think I need to purchase from this seller again :~) I do have some consolation...my pond is full of babies of different sizes and because I think I'm left with just one female after loosing quite a few, some of the females must have spawned before they got sick. I'm trying to slowly decrease the salinity as my plants are looking yellowish and the hyacinth and lettuce aren't spreading well.
Here's a pic taken today.

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your fish. I am glad to hear some were spared. How did you go with the salinity? Your pond is beautiful! Thanks for sharing the pictures. I hope the plants recover soon. I guess I havn't investigated it enough, I guess I didn't realized it was easy, or you are good at decided sex on fish.

I'm glad you've moved past the danger point with your fish. How sad to lose so many! I would like to know how high you took your salinity, and what kind of salt you used. You said block salt,, but the only thing I know by that name is the salt lick for wildlife, and that has minerals in it, too. My pond is 4000 gallons, and I'd like to add a bit of salt to it, but I'm skittish about it.
Also, I'm curious about how you are reducing the salinity. Are you doing partial water changes? My understanding is that once you add the salt, it's there for good, so you don't have to keep adding it every year. The only way I know to reduce it is to change the water.

Finally, I'm wondering if you have noticed any effect on string algea with the use of salt. I'm looking for a way to prevent it somewhat, rather than kill it once it's there. I use hydrogen peroxide, but what I end up with seems to be a cycle of string algea to dead string algea to more of a bioload in the pond due to the dead string algea, to more string algea. Know what I mean? I am wondering if salinity would have any effect on the growth of it.

Beautiful pond!

You can also get medicated koi food, next time you have a problem. The salt will help build a slime coat on their bodies , which is especially good for injuries, torn fins, ulcers, etc....but the medicated food will also help internally with parasites, disease, etc. That too you can get off Ebay. The normal pet-stores carry the salt in their aquarium section, even our WalMart carries it. You need to use the salt with no iodine, which is what aquarium salt is. If you have fish separated, when you first bring them home, you can add a squirt or 2 of StressCoat, which helps them establish a slime coat after being bumped around and stressed out for a while. (also available at WalMart and pet stores)

Salinity should be no higher than 0.1 for a ponds with plants. Some Lotus are even more salt sensitive and don't thrive at that level. For a pond with no salt add 1-1/4 cups per 100 gallons. Salt does not evaporate. Always test before and after you add salt. It can be a way to determine your exact gallonage by using the above formula. Add half the amount, then test and see what the salinity level is. Go from there. I always salt to my pond to .02, the highest limit fish tolerate in late fall just before I turn off the pump for winter. It does not harm dormant plants. By spring natural rain and snowfall have reduced the salinity to below .01. Salt helps a fish with osmoregulation, the movement of fluid in and out of cells. It can block nitrite uptake in a fish. It really helps reduce stress on a fish in the spring start up and a diseased or injured fish at any time. I keep the salinity level at .01 through spring start up until the weather is settled. Then I let the level dissipate on its own until fall again. Test kits are relatively cheap and last a long, long time. I have my original test kit from 5 years of use for two ponds and two indoor aquariums. They are around ten bucks. I add the salt by dividing what I need into several small plastic pails, then place the pails around the pond on an angle with a rock for weight and to keep them tipped. The salt dissolves slowly on its own, usually within 8 hours. Salt should be unaldulterated sea salt. I have heard that scrubbing string algae with salt will kill the string algea. My stepdaughter does this with her koi pond but frankly I don't see a benefit as she is always scrubbing. I have no string algae this year for the first time. Ponsd is full sun. I have been using Aquascapes S.A.B. exclusively from spring start up. This is not a commercial for this product nor an endorsement. (I dont like Aquascape equipment, use exclusively Savio which I swear by.) S.A.B. (string algae buster) is very expensive. This is my first year using it. So far so good. No algae of any kind and crystal clear water to the bottom. The plants are growing just fine and I have my first Lotus blossom ever on a first year tuber stick its head up two days ago. There have been no ph swings either. I did have a fungus on two (of 8) koi this spring for the first time ever which I had to treat. This was before any S.A.B. had been added. I blamed the fungus on the awful temperature swings we had this year. Sixty degrees for a week in January, then plunge in one day to 20 degrees at night. That is tough on fish with a still inactive immune system.

thanks Snapple. Can you check your numbers again? you say .1, then go to .02, and .01. Which is it? that's a big difference.
I'll have to do some research on the aquascape SAB. I'm not too into their stuff either. But I'd like to know what it has in it.

Sorry for the confusion about the salinity levels. .01 is for ponds with plants. .02 is for ponds without plants, or in the winter in colder climates with a dormany period. .02 will kill most, if not all, plants when actively growing. .01 is well tolerated by nearly all plants, with the exception of some Lotus. The sensitive varieties of Lotus don't die but there may be reduced bloom. Fish are aided by either salinity level.

I wish I knew what was in S.A.B. because it is an ugly dent in the wallet. I am reserving judgment on this product until a full season of use. But, so far, very good. I have noticed that I am cleaning the filters a lot more often with an abundance of dead algae. I am also keeping an eye on the bottom for any heavier sludge buildup. I did vacuum the deepest part in mid June. It wasn't too bad. About what I would have expected. The unexpected event is absolutely not a shred of string algae anywhere, even the waterfall. Last year I spent most of my time with a toilet brush taped to a cane pole pulling the stuff out.

Regarding adding salt, etc. to a koi pond, I've read dozens of articles and nearly all of them say .1 parts per thousand for ponds with plants. I've also read one pound per 100 gallons of pond water. And then I read 1.25 cups per 100 gallons of water, which is what I use since that's less than a pound and I have a lot of pond plants as well as koi.

I have a 3,350 gallon pond with no algae problems: the reason? I use 180 watts of UV lighting which kills any floating algae (and a lot of parasites) and keeps the pond crystal clear from top to bottom. (114 watts in a Savio skimmer and an additional 80 Lifegard UV filter). Keeping healthy fish and healthy plants is a real balancing act. So far, so good.

I don't have a UV light, but I've never had pea soup algea, and my water is nice and clear. I did some reading and found that a high Ph encourages the growth of string algea. I know my ph is about 8.2, which is quite high I think. After getting the salinity adjusted, I'll retest and take that on if necessary.

Ditto rabrooks on the UV. They do a good job on green algae. I have two UV's in a Savio system. They don't do a thing for string algae, at least not in my situation. It forms first on the waterfalls which are in full sun, the very devil to control. I have been thinking of adding an additional in line UV unit. As for ph koi do best between 6.5 an 8. Thanks pixydish for the info about string algae and ph. This year I have been adding filtered water to the pond instead of straight out of the tap. This filter takes out minerals and chlorine etc. Maybe that is why I am having such a good year for algae and not the S.A.B. I do know that I have eliminated ph swings. And that is always a good thing. The filters are relatively inexpensive and easy to use. I also use them on my 70 gal aquarium in the house. You don't have to ever use any dechlorinator and they do reduce/eliminate ph swings. While I am still reserving judgement on the S.A.B. because of the expense I do highly recommend the System IV filter. Look under "water care", then "chlorine control". It is the last item on the page. I couldn't get the link to the exact page to work. www.pondbiz.com I havn't put dechlorinator in either of two ponds or my inside aquarium for two years.

Thanks, snapple, for that info. I was thinking I should get an in-line filter for the hose. My dh set up a float valve system for me where the pond is always on autofill since it evaporates tons of water from the stream on hot days, and I'm sure I have a small leak somewhere between the bog filter and the main pond. Since I'd have to dismantle the entire bog filter and take so much stuff apart to find it, it's easier to just keep adding a bit of water. It's not a big leak.
It's my understanding that UV filters will do nothing to combat string algea, since it's not free floating in the water. I do like the idea of them killing parasites, though. So far I have been lucky with my fish, but luck only holds for so long.
I found that the S.A.B has concentrated beneficial bacteria in it, but likely some other things. I know some of those pond sludge removers have barley extract as well. My understanding of barley is that as it decomposes it releases hydrogen peroxide, which, of course, kills string algea.
I'm hoping that I can get mine undercontrol by lowering the ph and adjusting the salt level in the water.

What have any of you used to lower ph?