Controlling groundcover?

Hopefully this is the appropriate forum for this question. I am starting a new planting bed that is rather large. I plan to plant portions of it with vinca minor. What is the best way to keep the plant from spreading throughout the bed? Obviously a barrier method, but I'm not sure what material to use or how deep to sink it.

I sort of feel uncomfortable pointing this out to you but that's Vinca you are planning on planting. The nature of the beast is that it forms dense and extensive mats once established. That's what Vinca does and that's one of the reasons why it is listed as an invasive species as it is quite successful at crowding out all other vegetation. I don't think there is a way to stop it from spreading through your entire bed. Although there are people out there who claim it is impossible to contain, you can probably stop it from spreading out of the bed by incorporating one of those elaborate systems that people who grow bamboo use. Rather costly but it should work. I would think that sinking your barrier down into the ground by about 2' should do it but what will you do about the seeds produced by your plants that will be dispersed by wind as well as by other means? This plant can easily be propagated by cuttings as well as by layering and it can be started from seed. It will germinate in about 15-30 days at temps of 70-75F. http://www.backyardgardener.com/tm.html They do germinate best in the dark but dependant upon where the seed lands, that requirement isn't all that difficult to satiate. Although its reproduction is generally asexual, I have seen sprouts poking out of grass clippings. http://www.ext.vt.edu/pubs/envirohort/426-001/426-001.html Best wishes to you.

Vinca= AUGHHHHHH!!!!
Sidney

I appreciate the info. Having never planted vinca minor before, I hadn't realized how invasive it was. The plant was actually suggested to me by a landscaper who helped me plan the plantings, but now I'm having second thoughts. A two foot barrier all around the bed is more work than I had planned. Groundcovers as a whole are invasive of course, and that helps in filling out the areas we desire, but can common groundcovers be classified more or less into different degrees of invasiveness? Are some known for the ability to control their invasiveness better over others? Sorry for the basic questions, as I don't have much experience planting groundcovers.

For some reason some landscapers are real good at whipping Vinca, Burning Bushes, and Bradford Pears out of their pockets as good choices to integrate into a landscape design. Blows my mind at some of the species recommended. You're not the first and you won't be the last to have Vinca recommended.

I'll spare you the ordeal surrounding the 100 plugs of English Ivy that I planted all by my little old self that literally heaved portions of my concrete sidewalk trying to make a break for my front lawn. Wonderful plants those Hedera helix are. Everyone should have the opportunity to nuke a few. I also planted both Vinca minor and major before. Fortunately, I had already experienced English Ivy first hand and when I saw some of the photos of Vinca getting out of control like it was Kudzu, I started annihilating them out of fear they'd slither their way into my home through some crack in the foundation. Some mistakes just aren't fun enough to warrant a second go around.

Not all ground covers are invasive but Ajuga, English Ivy, and Vinca are pretty bad and unfortunately they are very popular. There are others that are equally as bad as those or worse but they aren't as popular. There's a thread I recently posted in where I listed out numerous species that would work well as ground covers in a partially shaded site. If your site gets some shade, I could cut and paste those suggestions here for you if you would like. If your site is predominantly sun, I could suggest a few for you to look up to see if anything interests you.

Hey docsab, welcome to Dave's Garden!

My site is partial shade. I certainly would appreciate your suggestions for groundcover. At least your experiences were not all for naught- they helped me in avoiding the same mistakes!

Funny thing, when I was buying more flats of my English Ivy... the gal asked me if I was sure I wanted so many because they were kinda a garbage plant. A garbage plant? I was clueless but not for long. We've removed the portions of our sidewalk that were heaved and repoured new concrete 2 years ago so that area looks pretty good again. Now if I could just get every last little sprig of Ivy that pops up from time to time I'd be in good shape.

Here are a few plants for you to Google to see if the looks of them fit with your landscape goals. Sorry for cheating by cutting and pasting but I just typed these out for somebody else to consider so I am re-posting them because you are also east of the Rockies in a northern temperate region so these plants should be able to do quite well in your zone 6-

Thats a pretty impressive list! It will aid me tremendously in selecting a new groundcover. I had to laugh at your earlier comment regarding landscaper suggestions- a few years ago, at the suggestion of the same landscaper who suggested Vinca, I planted 17 Bradford Pear saplings along my driveway! Fortunately, the type I chose, Red Spire, turned out looking pretty good so far. There's probably burning bushes somewhere in my plan, heh.

I'll let you know what I choose and how it goes. Thanks again for the insight.

After exploring the suggestions on your list, I have narrowed it down to the Partridgeberry or the Twinflower. Both are beautiful species with the right height and growth characteristics I'm looking for. I'm leaning toward Partridgeberry as it is a native plant and it appears it will tolerate some partial sun better. It will be much easier to obtain also as the Twinflower appears to be an endangered species here in the states.

Are your Partridgeberry plants thriving in partial sun or mostly shade?

Tee he, I had a landscaper who integrated 12 Burning Bushes into my landscape as well as a few Bradford (Calleryana) Pears, Russian Olives, and a host of other plants. Doesn't it seem like some landscapers are going out of their way to suggest the worst of the worst? The following year after all these plants were in the ground I asked him why he had sold me those plants. His comment, "They're not against the law to sell yet". Pretty sad.

About 40% shade for the Partridgeberry here. I've removed a considerable amount of Buckthorn so it really opened up the understory.

Twinflower is indigenous to North America also-
http://www.ct-botanical-society.org/galleries/linnaeabore.html

Quote: "His comment, "They're not against the law to sell yet". Pretty sad."

Ha!-You've got to be kidding me! I geuss it sounds better than the truth- they were the plants left over at his nursery store after all his walk-in customers were finished!


Partridgeberry it is- Looks like there are a number of nurseries that carry it also. Only one retailer had twinberry seeds and he was sold out. Just as well, I think the Partridgeberry will be perfect!

Interesting thread. I just received 75 bare root Vinca Minor and was having second thoughts about planting them after reading the above. Thankfully, Vinca minor is actually native to Washington and is on the recommended list of the Extension Office to plant for fire supression. Whew! I had it for just that reason near Lake Tahoe and loved it. But being new to gardening where things actually grow easily you've made me committed to check invasiveness before I plant anything else new. Now, I need to check on the Butterfly Bushes growing at the back of my property. Hope they'll be okay.

Hey Katy,

If your County Extension Office listed Vinca minor as a plant that is indigenous to the State of Washington, they have made a mistake. Vinca minor is a native plant, but not to anywhere on the continent of North America-
http://plants.usda.gov/java/nameSearch?keywordquery=Vinca+minor&mode=sciname&submit.x=0&submit.y=0

Vinca minor is indigenous to Europe.
http://www.ars-grin.gov/cgi-bin/npgs/html/taxon.pl?41680

Landscapers integrate it into their designs quite frequently. Our County Extension Office was recommending it up until a few years ago too. It's a very popular plant frequently marketed for use as a ground cover and the evergreen foliage is quite attractive and the blooms are very pretty.
http://www.invasive.org/browse/subject.cfm?sub=3081

I have used Vinca in window boxes. I have never noticed it spreading. Is there anything wrong with growing it in containers? Maybe I am thinking of another kind of Vinca. Mine has never been a vine and it dies off during the winter.

This message was edited Apr 1, 2006 8:07 AM

You're right Equi, I mis-read this. I really need to go back to bed. It didn't have the (N) next to it. Humm, so, do I plant it or not? It was going to go along the property next to a drop-off that the Simpson Lumber Company runs their train through once or twice a day. Very brushy and a potential fire danger on their side of the fence. Our summers can be dry.


https://fortress.wa.gov/lewisco/firewise/docs/LCFireResPlants.pdf

Eeek, scary list they provide people with. The Cerastium tomentosum and the Ajuga reptans as well as the Thymus praecox and Vinca minor were all once "recommended" by our extension office too. No way I'd plant that Snow in Summer or that Creeping Thyme they "recommended" unless they offered to come and keep up with it. I still end up with some Snow in Summer, Dame's Rocket, and Bachelor's Buttons popping up and I misplanted those years ago and removed them. The Thyme I never planted because it wasn't attractive enough for me or I would probably still be finding that too.

Should you plant the Vinca minor? Tough question. I'd plant them in window boxes and planters and trim off anything that might be stretching out to the ground to root. I'm going to plant a few Vinca minor in two planters by my front door. They should look nice trailing over the edge of the planters. I like the look of the Vinca, I just don't want to be chasing after it or having it choking out and killing off other plants. For your ground cover, you might want to consider the Phlox subulata they recommended however I think you might really like Sedum integrifolium, S. divergens, Arctostaphylos columbiana, and A. nevadensis. Take a look on Google for images of those and see if you think any of those might look attractive planted on the property next to the drop-off that the Simpson Lumber Company owns.

What about some shrubs with height to block the view of that drop-off area. Looks to me as if every one of the shrubs on their list is fine. The Garry Oak and either the Pacific Dogwood or the Pacific Crabapple might make a nice backdrop for the shrubs and ground covers.

Thanks Equi, lot's to think about! Thankfully, the drop-off IS completely hidden from my yard. It's what's hiding it I wonder about. It was clear cut some years back and is full of saplings; cedar, pine, red-bud, a native birch-like tree, salal, etc. I don't even have a clue what some of it is, I'll find out eventually. I will check out the other ground covers... it's just that I'm familiar with the vinca and didn't have a problem with it. But of course, this is a very different zone/climate. Maybe I'll post on the PNW forum and see what experiences others have had locally.

I wouldn't plant the vinca minor...it will love your climate. I hear it makes nice kindling. Dode.

After reading this thread, I am more than a little afraid.

I'm in East Tennessee and I planted Vinca major in a 20x60 bed with trees 11 years ago and the vinca is completely controlled just by mowing. It's gorgeous. Trees are fine, vines are thick and everything is weed-free. Maintenance-free as well, which was the point.

However, after some pretty major work with bulldozers, I have new steep red clay banks -- that are eroding of course. So I planted English Ivy in the shade under pine trees. I dug 6" holes and filled with good topsoil for each little pot and made sure each hole drained well. I was hoping the red clay would inhibit the ivy -- ideas?

And, feeling bold, I brought in pachysandra terminalis for a different shaded area -- also red clay, also dug holes and filled with topsoil.

And finally I just got 300 daylillies for naturalizing on the sunny bank, terraced the whole thing, and gave them some good topsoil in long narrow double rows.

So, how much trouble am I in as far as invasions? (Thanks.)