Want a big apple tree

Can anyone suggest a way to plant what will be a _big_ apple tree?

The background: We've decided that we'd like to grow what we think of as an 'old apple tree' in our garden in Oregon. By this, we mean that after the appropriate number of decades, we'd like a quite tall apple tree, branching fairly high, with a spreading canopy.

Digging through the web, I can see that this is completely contrary to all current goals for apple breeding. :) Even the largest-growing rootstock that I see mentioned is described as growing to up to 20 feet, and we'd like something taller than that if we can get it.

So I'm guessing that an own-root tree is what I want, but I can find almost no one that _sells_ own-root fruit trees, as opposed to researching them. (I say 'almost' because I did find one site in New York, that specifically states that they don't do mail order.)

Can anyone offer any suggestions? I guess that a crabapple is one possibility, but we really want an eating apple. Or, does anyone know if the largest rootstock does end up growing bigger than that 20 feet, and where an ordinary homeowner could buy a tree on that stock?

Thanks,

Burnet

Burnet,
You're looking for a 'standard' apple - usually on seedling rootstock - Antonovka or Ranetka are probably the most commonly used seedling stocks, but they're mainly for folks in severely harsh winter areas, like zones 2, 3, maybe 4. Most people - even commercial orchardists, don't want a standard tree - they may actually get to be 35-40 ft tall and 1.5-2 times that wide - you might have to purchase a separate property for your apple tree. Pruning, spraying, and harvesting would be a nightmare.

If you're determined to have a full-size tree, and can't find one on standard rootstock, you could purchase one on semi-dwarfing rootstock, plant with the graft union below ground level, and the grafted(scion) portion should root, giving you an 'own-rooted' tree, that will become a large, full-size tree.

Have a look at this website:
http://www.davewilson.com/homegrown/all_ed/teds_head06_dwarf.html
Dwarf Tree? But it's so BIG!!

Thanks!

I'm under the illusion that I want it, though I realize that I should think hard and repeatedly before putting the tree in the ground. :)

We already have a plum that's probably a good 30 feet high, that feels like about the right size (but it's in the wrong place - it's by the street). And we have two young pears that are getting just barely tall enough to reach for the peak of the roof of our one-story house, and those feel kinda small. (They're well on their way to shading the entire side garden that they occupy, but they still feel kinda small.)

We don't spray either of these - we just throw out any fruit that's chewed on, and eat or give away the rest. I guess that the way we use them, they're basically cool toys that throw fruit all over the lawn and driveway once a year. So the apple would be the same - unless apples are more prone to insects and diseases that would actually require spraying for the health of the tree rather than just the success of the fruit?

Hurtling toward folly,

Burnet

This message was edited Mar 21, 2006 4:09 PM

I can't speak for the PNW, but over here in the eastern US, codling moth & apple maggot are major problems, causing most unsprayed apples to be hardly fit for consumption, though I suppose they're probably still OK for cider-pressing.
If I had a full-size standard apple in my back yard, I'd be having to deal with hundreds of pounds of mostly inedible(by most folks' standards) fruit rotting on the ground - or waiting to be pitched over the fence to the horses/cows, or gathered & hauled out to the wildlife foodplots for the deer.
Other than dealing with fireblight, pears are virtually no-care, no-spray fruits here, and will produce very good quality fruits with almost no insect damage. That's not the case for apples, unfortunately.

I am considering planting a few apple seedlings, enclosed in cages or tree shelters, in my CRP bufferstrip, adjacent to the foodplots, and grafting them over to some late-season 'winter-keeper' type apples as a source of soft mast for the wildlife - and to draw them in for harvesting to fill the freezer with venison.

Try cleaning bug riddled apples for cider. Never again! I don't know of any apples that grow over 20' -25 ' at the most. A good old apple is Grimes Golden, or Famuese, a snow apple.

Billy,
I wasn't aware that they cleaned apples pressed for cider. Maybe a quick spray to knock the bird poop off, but otherwise, I thought they just pressed 'em all - the good, the bad, and the ugly.
25 ft - that's taller than a 2-story house. A big apple tree. Not many residential yards are big enough to accomodate an apple tree of that magnitude.

For a good read on the rigors of maintaining an orchard of standard trees, check out this memoir from Jim Cummins:
http://www.cumminsnursery.com/transparent.htm

Lucky, not in my garage! They're washed, cut in half, checked and thrown in a bowl till we get enough to start turning the handle. Bugless apples are so much quicker! (I thought 25' was pushing it.) I used to climb as high as I could, so it's hard to guage when you're a kid. After that I never gave any thought to standard tree sizes because I only have room for dwarfs. Don't mind the correction tho. I'm here to learn too.

Actually a 20- 25 ft apple tree is small compared to the shade trees (Oaks, maples, sweet gums, birches, elms etc) that folks plant for shade trees. If an apple tree is not open pruned, they make a pretty good shade tree. Just ask old Isaac Newton. Very messy tho.

Thanks for the advice, folks. :) I'll continue to think Really Hard about this before I do it. (I can't plant the tree until after we do some trenching in the yard anyway, so there will be an enforced delay for second thoughts.)

Farmerdill, yep, it doesn't seem to me that the height is so big for a _tree_, just for a fruit tree. We already have five trees as tall as or taller than that, though admittedly the three biggest ones are near the sidewalk and spread half their canopy over the street. We would indeed be pruning it to be a shade tree.

I know that pruning doesn't help with either spraying or dealing with wormy fruit if I don't spray; that's the part I need to think extra hard about.

Burnet