Spider lily identification help

I bought this bulb from a local nursery, a Dutch product, and can't find the package/label with the name (I'm usually pretty good at keeping that stuff). It was supposedly a Hymenocallis, Ismene, Spider Lily, etc. and I think it is, but I can't seem to match the photos in Plantfiles with what I have.

It has done very well for me in a tub, which comes in every winter (I'm in Canada, Zone 4). Much like an amaryllis, it has strap-shaped leaves and a single flowering stem. I get more flowers each year (July 7 last year) as the bulb grows larger. It produces numerous offsets, which I pot up and grow on to flowering size (now what? gifts...)

The flower seems more tubular than the Plantfiles photos show. Sorry there's no visual of the leaves, but they look exactly like an amaryllis. It's not nearly as fragrant as I'd hoped -- just a little at night/early morning. But visually it's pretty dramatic!

Try this one
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/1234/index.html

Yup, looks like a Peruvian Daffodil to me too.

Andy, I'm glad you posted as I have one on order for this spring. How do you overwinter? Do you just treat it as a house plant or do you withhold water and put it in a cool, dark place like the basement? Do you lift the bulb or leave it in the pot? How big a pot are you using?

Thanks, frogsrus, that's definitely what I've got: Hymenocallis festalis.

beaker_ch, the original bulb is in a large tub (18") surrounded with New Guinea imaptiens and a few trailers. It lives on my south-facing deck all summer, where it blooms in early July for about 2 weeks. I fertilize through the summer with 15:30:15 and in August switch to 20:20:20 for the extra potassium to build up the bulb.

I bring the whole tub in for the winter, put it in the basement and leave it until April, unwatered. Then I dig it up, pull off and pot up the offsets, change the soil and get it started again for the season. It usually has 10-12 thick fleshy roots at the base of the bulb, and the more fibrous roots have shrivelled.

I hope this answers your questions. Good luck with yours!

beaker_ch I have had this for a few years in a cold greenhouse here, I had 3 bulbs in a large pot, about 12", but they do increase well and get very congested. In Autumn 2004 I divided them into other pots, putting the largest ones in a very large pot, possibly 18". The roots are thick and white, they were coming out of the pot at the bottom and growing into the peat on the bed it was sat on in my neighbours greenhouse!

In a greenhouse the scent is a bit stronger when it warms in the morning, when you open the door you can smell it. I plant mine quite deep, they are fairly late to show but can make 4 flowers on a head. I didn't get flowers last year after dividing but it had to be done, the pot was bursting. I also had it in a shadier greenhouse, I think they enjoy more sun. The leaves are very long and quite broad and dark green, quite tropical looking. I love it, the leaves are attractive even if you don't get flowers.

andycdn I used to give mine extra food when I fed the tomatoes, but didn't bother much last year, I think they do need it as you say to build up the bulb. I know what you mean about the extras, so many!

Thanks for the great info. It sounds like it's not too finicky meaning, the two of us we'll probably get along!

It sounds like Andy has one bulb in an 18" pot and that Wallaby has three bulbs in an 18 "pot. Any pros or cons about multiple bulbs in a pot?

I like the idea of New Guinea Impatients. One of my favorites. I was going to plant seed for the Cherry New Guinea for just one hanging basket, but maybe I'll do a few more. Andy, how may of the New Guineas do you normally plant in that pot?

I put more in the 18" pot, not sure how many but I had loads! I really think they enjoyed being congested, some bulbs do prefer that. They certainly didn't suffer, but it got to the point where there was just no more room.

I wish I had a picture of the tub from last summer to show you. I used the Hymenocallis as the centrepiece of the pot, the leaves and stem being upright, then the impatiens being lower, and the main feature, really. I had three impatiens, one white and two pink with dark red leaves, which I bought at a nursery. They filled in very quickly. I always plant in odd numbers, especially three. Then I used variegated ivy to cascade. The H. was effective even after I cut off the stem, with just leaves, although they started getting tatty by late September.

So, this bulb, which I've had for 4-5 years now, is getting bigger and still has one shoot, with three blooms last year. I don't know if it would perform better if crowded. I haven't tried that, because I dig it up every year to remove the offsets and replenish the soil. Also, the main feature of that tub is the impatiens, not the H. which is just an accent.

I have much more room at the cottage, where I could plant a mass of them in-ground for a terrific two-week display, but I don't know if the deer would just chew them up for breakfast. And the prospect of having to lift them in the fall isn't thrilling.

Andy

This has been interesting. I did a search for culture and read conflicting information. Evidently, they like to moist, dry, planted 1 to 3 feet apart and hung upside down to winter. I think I'll go with what I'm learning from the two of you..

If they like to be pot bound, you could always sink a smaller pot in an 18" tub. I think I might try that if I go with the 18"pot.

Now who do I have to blame for me buying another one today? I have in the past resisted the temptation to try the yellow one, Sulphur Queen. Today I sort of dropped in to the garden centre and they had them, so I quite calmly, without too much argument with myself, picked one up and bought it! Along with a few other things too, but it was 4C, felt like -4C. wind blowing, icy sleet, so who can blame me? Nice big one too!

beaker_ch that sounds like a good idea, then for a start you can just lift them in their pot and overwinter drier without disturbing. Once it starts to push the sides of the pot you can then transplant. I suppose in nature they would be like that, and they come from the mountains of Peru, dry and cold in winter, possibly growing amongst rocks without much soil. Amaryllis often grow that way, and put their roots out under rocks for moisture.

Good for you, Wallaby! Consider it a late birthday present from yourself.

Well, I'm on to other things today. I was browsing a German site and saw some lovely Alstroemeria also called Princess Lilies. I started seaching US sites and they were few and far between. I found Sweet Laura (yellow) and Freedom (pink) at Wayside, but nothing to match the selections at Bakken. Are you familar with these? I wonder why these aren't as available in the US? I gather from reading, that they are widely used by florists everywhere. The florists probably don't want us growing our own.

I did order the two from Wayside, but now have to figure out how to overwinter as, of course, they aren't for my growing zone. So, now I'm off to spend a few hours looking up Alstroemeria culture. Here's a pic of the one I was drooling over at Bakken. Wish I understood German better. Should have paid more attention at school!

There is the alstroemeria ligtu hybrids that some here seem to have pushed for many years, they can be fairly hardy, but are tall. I got a potful in 1998 of a dwarf on, no name but it looks like A. species can't remember which, but probably a hybrid. I put it in an old baby's metal bath tub, outside and there it stayed. It has kept returning but tends to get a bit weaker, so I took some up and overwintered in a shed last winter, and this. They will always do better if kept out of he real cold weather. It has started to get bigger, it may have been one I grew from seed off it I got in the first year. They grew easily but had trouble overwintering in a greenhouse as young plants, I think it was a very cold winter their first year and I lost most. They make a longish fleshy white tuber in cluster, and increase outwards.

There is also A. psitticana, a species supposed to be fairly easy here, and a variegated one which I almost bought from ebay but didn't want to pay the price at the time with postage.

In 2004 I bought a really nice one from a supermarket, it also lives outside and came back last year not quite so well, I will take some up this year to protect it.

This is the first one, which is growing now in the shed, it does flower early if kept under cover

The 2 garden centres near me both get deliveries from the co-operative growers in Holland, Boskoop, and sometimes you get some really interesting plants. A lot of plants have 'Boskoop' in their name. Some history which I just found

http://www.coenosium.com/text699/boskoop.htm

here is the other Alstroemeria

They are so lovely. Well, here's what I've learned; again with conflicting information. One article said to treat as a Dahlia:

"Dahlia, alstroemeria, and gloriosa lily produce tuberous roots. To store these plants over the winter, trim back the foliage of the plant to within a few inches after the first light frost. Dig carefully to avoid injury. With some soil attached, pack the roots between 2 and 3 inch layers of vermiculite, peat moss, sawdust, or wood shavings. Store at 35 to 45 degrees F. Check frequently to remove those that shrivel or rot."

That was actually the most anyone had to say about them. The other bit of conflicting info was advice to treat as an annual and take cuttings to propagate for the next season. I also learned that in warmer climates, they can become invasive and it was recommended they be grown in pots.

I read somewhere, they can be stored in pots, but water should be withheld to rest the tubers. Do you withhold water on the one you put in your shed for any length if time? I'll probably try all three methods to see what works the best. My basement is not real warm in the winter, but it is certainly not as cold as they are recommending.

Just remember the information given is for the benefit of those not accustomed to growing these plants, and anyone giving the information will be interested in preserving their integrity if anything should go wrong. In a very warm climate they probably would be invasive, I have heard that about A. psitticana, but in this climate they mostly live and get a little less, the first one lived in that tub through prolonged frost to -9C (the coldest but mostly -5 or -6) or 16F, after a few years you won't have a lot left but still growing. In your climate I think they would turn to mush, they should be planted deep but I find they place themselvers to the correct level anyway,

I have so far left my dahlias in the ground, one for around 6 years, it just increases. We don't normally have deep ground frost, but in very cold winters it can get quite hard. Think of these plants in the wild, they will not be lifted, but in their natural habit they will possibly be dry as Alstroemeria comes from Chile and rainfall there can be low or non-existant, I don't know what their natural habitat is. In dry climates there is often night mist or fog to condense and provide moisture so not many plants will be totally dry, they adapt to what they get. Chile has mountains and snow too, which can protect a plant.
I don't water mine unless it looks very dry, but I do give it a little either side of the very cold middle of winter as the tubers often develop in late autumn as dahlias, and growth starts in mild spells. Either way nothing dries out much over winter, it also depends on what you grow them in as I use the same mix for everything and it seems to be good for getting slightly tenders through cold spells even if they get frozen.


As far as dormancy goes, they do die back, but as I said the tubers will develop and growth start, I feel this is best left to natural tendencies than interrupted because a book says so. Remember also that dahlias can be difficult to overwinter if lifted and are often lost. They will say treat as an annual because in a lot of climates it won't survive in the ground, and may not out of the ground, therefore that is the only true recommendation they can give. They say the same about salvias, mine get thru OK in the greenhouse. Cuttings are recommended for any tenderish perennial so as to maintain stocks of the plant. Think of tubers as a hump on a camels back

I have never grown alstroemeria, if I may re-enter this thread ;-) but I have had good luck with dahlias and the culture sounds similar. It may be worth a try.

I grew dahlias for about 5 years and found that the late bloom time in this climate zone made the work involved a little less rewarding -- by the time they were in full flush (beginning of August), the cooler weather was moving in and the plants slowed down. Would this be the same for alstroemeria?

And what about vegetative propagation? I took cuttings of my dahlias as the tubers started growing in the spring (in flats) and rooted them to produce new plants. One year this produced a half-dozen Park Princess which made a lovely 3-foot high hedge effect in one of my gardens at the lake. Can I do this with Als?

We've strayed from the topic of this thread but it's a very interesting side-trip!

andy I haven't tried to grow from cuttings, I'm not sure about that, but they do produce tubers at the side that can be removed, not like a dahlia with a central stem and tubers radiating from it. These make several stems and a bit of it can just be taken off. I would think even if you could take cuttings they would be a bit slow to form a tuber, it was from seed.
Mine in the shed starts to flower before I take it out for the summer in late May, so with being earlier it could be worth a try. They do continue to flower for a long time. And of course they are very pretty, best in a tub. There is a much more robust one here that some people grow, it is orange and very hardy, someone up the top of Scotland grows it, A. aurantiaca

http://www.anniesannuals.com/signs/a/alstroemeria_aurantica_epl.htm

Feel free to jump right in, Andy. I'm afraid I'm driving Wallaby nuts with my imprecise reseach methods.

To tell the truth, I'd much prefer keeping all my potted plants potted and I believe that is what you are doing. I keep thinking about an old neighbor, when I was a girl, who use to move all her potted plants to what she called the "North Forty" every Fall. This was the back part of her house that was unheated in northern Minnesota. She always had lovely pot Geraniums and Dahlias. There's no reason why this shouldn't work in my basement. And if it doesn't, I don't have a big investment in these plants. I may try a few cuttings next fall just because I'd like to see if I can.

Thanks for all you input, Wallaby. It's given me a lot to think about.

Hey that's Ok beaker, I had a head start on being nuts anyway! Gotta go to bed, gone 4.30 here.,,,,,,,

I have a feeling the alstroemeria you get as cut flowers are grown in greenhouses ...you used to not even be able to get the plants here...then around 1991 they started appearing in nurseries...

I know their roots are very sensitive to being disturbed, and are like crunchy little tubers...I learned this the hard way until I started being very careful not to dig too close to the plant...

Here they do go completely dormant...don't know about other states though...our winters here are extremely mild...I don't know much about Peru, which I think is where they are from and are native...maybe they only tolerate very mild winters...

The ligtu hybrids seem to be the best performers...I have lost several other varieties after only one or two seasons...they say you are not supposed to cut the stems when picking the flowers, but rather to pull the whole stem straight up out of the ground...this is supposed to stimulate more plants...I did find this to be true...though it seems "extreme"...

What are ligtu hybrids and where do you get them?

Alstroemeria psittacina is Brazil, but many are in Chile, I have just bought some seed from there, someone selling native Chilean bulb seeds. Peru could have some too.

I don't dig near them, grow them in tubs, not sure about pulling the stem off, you may just pull up the tuber. I like them on the plant!

Mine also go completely dormant. If you have lost yours in a warmer climate i wonder if they have been baked too much, Brazil has much tropical rainforest andless harsh temps.

T&M sell the seed, or any other supplier probably, been around for years.

info on A. psittacina

http://www.floridata.com/ref/a/alst_psi.cfm

Yes, you are to pull out the done stems of the Alstroemeria. It does stimulate new growth.
I am just getting into these Alstroemerias. I have several and want to get many more. I love these flowers to mix in my bouquets with my dahlia tubers.
Most A. don't like to be disturbed but there is one yellow one that can be very invasive I have found out the hard way.
So....
If any of you guys want to trade some of these Alstroemerias for dahlia tubers, just let me know!!!!!
Carol

Wallaby - Couldn't help myself, I ordered ligtu alstroemeria from American Meadows today. They were dirt cheap (on sale). I had emailed AM because I couldn't see how to order specific colors and they emailed back that they weren't labeled by color and I'd have to take a chance on that. So, I bought six. I'm going to be real disappointed if they all turn out to be all the same color. I'm hoping for a white and pink. They'll probably be all yellow.

Well I am the enabler aren't I! They come mixed so you should get a few different, the yellow one is another species. Good luck!