Hi Everybody! I'm new here, so let me introduce myself. My name is Terry. Married with 1 mentally and physically challenged 23 yr old daughter, which is awfully strange in that I'm only 21 :). I've been gardening for more than half my life and about 3 years ago became very interested in native plants. I'm sure as time goes by, more about myself and my life will emerge.....but for now.....
I have this hedge of privet. It came with this old house we bought a year ago. I've removed (hubby helped too!) 3 of them so far. They were pruned just so....and I'm not "into" pruning. If a shrub is supposed to be 15 ft. then I let it get 15 ft. I want to remove them all. Just in front of what the one's we removed, I planted Lindera benzoin, but those will only take up so much room. This is the south side of my lot, gets some morning sun in the front part of the hedge, shady during the afternoon, then the back ones will get some sun in the late afternoon. I've got some good black dirt that drains well. The area is dry, unless watered. Can someone suggest some native shrubs that would make a great "hedge"? I'm not going to prune it, it will grow as it does. I want to remove the hedge that's there because it's boring and I want things to add interest and if possible, food for the wildlife. I'd also like to buy them from someplace like Musser's where I can buy in bulk and bareroot. More bang for my buck so to speak. Oh gosh! And I need to fill up about 50 ft.
Any help would be greatly appreciated!
Terry
What native shrubs would make a good hedge?
You might also pop a post over at the Welcome Mat, by way of a mass introduction.
You obviously don't have enough (identified) viburnums. If you don't care about ultimate size, and you want to attract all the winged varmints possible, mix it up with these.
Eight to ten foot range:
V. cassinoides
V. dentatum
V. molle
V. nudum
V. trilobum
Fifteen foot plus range:
V. prunifolium
V. rufidulum
V. lentago
All these are for your sunnier location. V. acerifolium is also a fab plant, but would rather take some shade. Add to this mix just about any of the local Cornus, Crataegus, Ilex, and Amelanchier and you have most of the ultimate bird attracters.
The only problem with viburnums is the Viburnum leaf beetle, it has decimated both the tamed and the wild in this area and seems to be on the move.
Here, I have both Spiraea tomentosa (steeple bush) and S.alba var. latifolia (meadowsweet), Ilex verticulata (winterberry), Rosa palustris (swamp rose) and an Amelanchier canadensis that the birds planted for me. Any, or all of these, would work well.
John, that's the whole reason for you coming up here, remember? And to bring me all those elderberries you have. :) Off the top of my head, no, I don't know what I have. Well some I do. I have summer snowflake, alleghany, blue muffin, michael dodge, asian beauty, wild raisin, Mariesii, chicago lustre, cardinal candy, watanabe, autumn jazz, black haw, redwing (I think that's the one), there's more, but I can't think of them. They're scattered thruout the yard. Most still have the tags on them, so I plan on making a "map" of sorts of what's what and where. I also am not sure on what the different varieties, species (?) are, still trying to get that to stay in my head. Except I do know the Wild Raisin is listed as a cassinoides. I have 1 amelanchier canadensis near this area.
Thank you both for the suggestions, I will search these and see what I think.
Terry
The Viburnums around here are mature and unatractive. One of the species is a "cranberry". They are closely related to Vaccinium (Cranberry, Blueberry, etc). Vacciniums come in all sizes and shapes; deciduous or evergreen. I have Vaccinium vitis-ideae minor as a ground cover. It is 6" evergreen and very shiny.
Ilex (Holly) for your zone should be an Ilex rugosa hybrid. They are hardy to -30 f. Most Hollies are zone 7 & 8. I have Blue Princess, 3/4 I. rugosa 1/4 English. Others hybrids are China Boy and China Girl (half Chinese) Blue girl (1/2 English).
http://davesgarden.com/ps/c/25/2400
http://www.colvoscreeknursery.com/
Hollies have deformed flowers. Those with deformed anthers are called female. In the so-called 'double flower' plants the anthers resemble petals. Your girls should be within 100 feet of your boy and should bloom at the same time.
The I. verticulata is native here - I bought mine, but I could have gone to a nearby swamp and gotten one. They are very hardy. I also have Blue Boy and two Blue Girls, which have held up well, but are very slow growing, and English.
I didn't think of the blueberries - they would make a lovely big hedge, and you could share with the birds - nothing like fresh berries.
Blueberries would have been my first choice for a recommendation, for all the reasons mentioned.
Is Mahonia hardy to your neck of the woods? I have a Mahonia we planted a couple years ago, and I really like it as a year-round shrub - it would make a nice hedge as well..
When you say you removed the privet....do you mean you dug or burned out the stump and roots, too? Privet is a really dirty word around me. They've escaped into the still-untamed areas around our subdivisions, and are proving quite invasive. In our yard we've dug (and re-dug) a couple privet bushes over the past five years. Unfortunately, their root systems are entangled against mature trees, so I can't completely remove them. I just keep mulching them to the extent I can, and going after them with a small mattock when I spot new growth coming up.
From another Terry...who has an almost-21 year old kid which is of course impossible since I'm only 21 myself ;o)
Terrier: If what you listed is right, here's some ID.
Viburnum plicatum var. tomentosum 'Summer Snowflake'
V. p. var. t. 'Mariesii'
V. p. var. t. 'Watanabe'
V. x rhytidophylloides 'Alleghany'
V. dentatum 'Blue Muffin'
V. dentatum 'Chicago Lustre'
V. dentatum 'Autumn Jazz'
V. dilatatum 'Michael Dodge'
V. dilatatum 'Asian Beauty'
V. dilatatum 'Cardinal Candy'
V. prunifolium (black haw)
V. trilobum 'Redwing'
V. cassinoides (the Wild Raisin, which is what you ought to change your e-name to!)
Kathleen: From what I've read up on, the VLB has been in southern Canada and upstate NY/PA area for a long time. If it is going to move around, it's going to be from plant shipping by irresponsible participants (but that does happen). I've not read that it's life cycle inclines it to survive/thrive well elsewhere, but I remain to be persuaded.
UUallace: You just need to get out with some other viburnums. Cincinnati is home to some exceptionally fine collections of this genus; Spring Grove Cemetery, Mt. Airy Forest, and the Cincinnati Zoo are just a few sites. Vaccinium are a fine group of shrubs, but remind readers that these Ericaceae thrive in acid soil environments, and tend to like sandier soils as well. I'm not sure terryr's conditions up on the prairie are as conducive to success with this genus.
Finally, Terry: I KNOW you meant to say you fight with eradication of the non-indigenous garden foe known as Ligustrum >:-D
I must be missing something. Ligustrum = privet, yes? And yes, I do try my best to eradicate it from my yard. The bushes that matured in our yard (before we bought the house) are tenacious, to say the least. We dig up as much of the root system as we can, but they continue to re-sprout.
I highly recommend Fothergilla Minorii or Majorii, or any of its cultivars. Beautiful bottlebrush shaped blooms that smell like honey in the spring, nice foliage throughout the summer, and exceptional fall colour yellow, orange, mauve, red, often on the same leaf. It truly does put burning bush to shame. Dode.
Oh yum! Blueberries! I didn't even think about them. I have read that they like an...is it acid soil? I don't have sandy soil, just plain black dirt. Ahh, just went back up and see John does say that they like acid soil. See? Something did stick! Maybe there's hope after all....
Terry, I did a search on mahonia and came up with hardy to zone 6. I also saw it's native to China? The one I came up with was Mahonia bealei, leatherleaf. The privets I have aren't i.d.'ed as to the species, but they were i.d.'ed as being privet. They seem to barely have any roots. You can basically just pull them up by hand. Very weird....but then I yanked some spirea out also. Opposite side of the house, but these barely had any roots either. And the "lovely" barberries out front had virtually no roots either. Since I didn't plant them, I don't know why. My first thought is not enough water, or not watered enough in the first year of planting. I just really don't know. I still have my pick ax if I ever need it. That was my best friend while living down there in TN!
John, there you go showing off your vast knowledge of viburnams again! :o) No really, thank you. Now to try and copy and paste those. I really have no hope of the V. anything ever sticking in my head. I should change my user name to wild raisin? Or the other Terry should? And cornus? Dogwood? Like silkey and gray? I could see those......
Kathleen and uuallace, the Ilex, or the winterberries are another that I'm dying to have. I had a china girl and china boy at a previous house and the male just wasn't "stud-ly" enough for the female. He just kept shrinking and she just kept getting bigger. Finally, he died from exhaustion :) I especially want Ilex glabra 'Nigra'.
Dode, yet another on my wants! I had both of those in TN....wish I would have brought those too. Gosh, if I would have brought up even half of what I'd planted in TN, I'd have my hedge all taken care of. *sigh*
Keep these great suggestions coming! We just had about 5-6 inches of snow last night, including lightening and thunder...after having high 40's and low's 50's just previously. Very very weird weather for NIL!
Terry aka terrier aka wild raisin......
Elderberries! The birds eat all of mine, although some year I really plan to get some for a little one woman pie. We have both Sambucus canadensis and S. racemosa on the farm. I've seen the S. racemosa in bloom, but never seen the berries. It is down in the creek bed and the birds must sit there and pick them off one at a time as they ripen. Aside from the berries, they are quite nice looking plants, with light green leaves that turn a lemony yellow in the fall.
Another to think about is bayberry, Morella pennsylvanica. My mother has one planted by Dad's birdfeeders and the birds love it.
Oh! I love that plant! I looked it up at Musser's, hoping they'd have it and they do! How tall does your parents get? At Musser's it says it can get 5 to 12 feet high. Quite a difference! You guys are giving me so many good suggestions!
Now if John aka ViburnamValley brings me those sambucus like he said he would *hint hint*
Terry
Mom's had hers for about 6 years and it's probably 4 feet by 5 feet. It was pretty little when she got it and it suffer some damage one year so had to come back a bit. I keep thinking I'll take a cutting, but haven't yet.
I love Musser's catalogue - haven't ordered anything, but it is fun to look through.
Thank you Kathleen! Seems perhaps it stays more on the smaller size. I've got to figure out what will go where, so size is important.
I've ordered from Musser's before. I've gotten the bareroot and the container grown. Everything was only about a year old when we moved, but it was alive....unlike it is now that they ripped out everything :( I'm going to order from them again. Their stuff is small, but healthy. And you really can't beat the price!
Terry
One highlight here in Montana of the native type is the Ninebark. Great thick green foilage and prunes nicely. Then a bright yellow foilage in the fall that holds leaves long time. Very hardy and Grows here to 5' X5'.
I'm working on a hedge for my place too, growing from seed as much as possible and using natives. Here's what I've started:
*Cephalanthus occidentalis - Buttonbush, gets 15' tall, flowers smell like honey and attract butterflies & hummingbirds
*Amorpha fruticosa - False Indigo, 12' tall, suckers a lot, flowers smell like vanilla, don't plant next to house because of root system, poisonous to livestock
*Eupatorium purpureum - Sweet Joe Pye Weed, 7', aromatic, resists rabbits
*Physocarpus opulifolius - Prairie Ninebark, 6-10 ft tall & wide, in the rose family, makes flowers on old growth so don't prune
*Rosa setigera - Illinois rose, to 12 ft (climber)
I know it's going to take a lot longer starting from seed, but it's the only way I can afford the many plants I need for a hedge around most of the property. I've also started many non-woody plants that can at least provide a bit of screening until these shrubby guys grow up.
Since you have a lot of plants in your lawn, you can probably take cuttings from the hedge-worthy ones and save yourself some money that way, and some time.
Hibiscus syriacus = Rose of Sharon........ zones 5 to 9 according to my RD Encyc of Garden Plants. I received (too many) seed on the seed exchange, so if you would like to try some...... pls D mail me. I am still doubtful about the hardiness for here a/c our short season has its impact........ Soak seed overnight........ and sow. It would make an interesting specimen, or an informal hedge.
FYI, Viburnum cassinoides (the Wild Raisin) is wild in my back yard...... the edge of the woods............. If you like showy, try one of the showy Spireas.
Bill in SE Newfoundland zone 5a
Nice plant choices paracalsus! I love Buttonbush and False Indigo is really choice.
Hey terryr! The last older boy we adopted is developmentally delayed/cognitively challenged or I guess the old word is mentally retarded! What a joy these childred are even if they wrap us around their little fingers and con us into doing things for them they can do themselves!
Spicebush is an excellent choice but you already planted that somewhere on your property. Viburnum is probably the best choice for our area and there's no evidence of Pyrrhalta viburni here yet to the best of my knowledge. If you are concerned about Pyrrhalta viburni, steer clear of V. opulus as I understand those beetles really prefer that one which makes sense as both are natives to Asia. Fothergilla are great choices also and I purchased my first last year from a local source as well as a second from a source that somebody recommended to me here in the threads. I truly like Ninebark for a number of reasons but mostly because I find the bark to be very interesting. Have you considered Virginia Sweetspire? A few others you might want to check out would be; New Jersey Tea, Fragrant Sumac, Meadowsweet, and Snowberry.
Buttonbush, like Blueberries, tend to like wet feet so to speak and the Blueberry does tend to appreciate a more acidic environment.
Rose Of Sharon might be a problem child for us in Zone 5.
Check the plants they have available for mailorder here-
http://www.forestfarm.com/
I've had success ordering from them and you and I have got to be pretty close to each other. You better take a look at what Oikos has too-
http://www.oikostreecrops.com/store/aboutus.asp?cookiecheck=yes&
Speaking of you being close to me, any chance you would be available to join a few gardeners from this area, as well as five from out of state, who are planning a trip to the Chicago Botanical Garden the end of May? I think we are going to make a run for The Possibility Place Nursery, Enders Nurseries, and The Natural Gardens Nursery too and many of the plants you have an interest in will be offered for sale.
Equil, wrapping us around their fingers.....lol...after this morning...well ain't that the truth!
What is Pyrrhalta viburni? I'm going to have to do a search on some of the plants mentioned, by you and by others. I think I'm having a brain overload....I do have 3 new jersey tea's, I know I looked and wondered about the fragrant sumac. I'll check out your links and read up, thank you!
I'm not sure where the Chicago Botanical Garden is? Chicago...lol...yep, get that part, but where? I would travel east on 1-80, but from there I don't know.....1-55 north? To?? Date? Time? You can d-mail if you'd like to give me more information.
Bill, I know a few people who've tried Rose of Sharon and they all eventually die due to our winters. So I'll have to pass, but I do thank you for offering!
Terry
Pyrrhalta viburni = Viburnum Leaf Beetle
I'll D-Mail you with information on ChiBo. I can't help you with directions because I can get lost in a paper bag and generally won't drive if somebody else offers.
Terryr:
If you need elderberry, and ever get up this way, stop by and I will dig you some. It's all over my place.
Kevin,
How far are you from Lauren? I want some for here and some for out at my dad's place. I think elderberries will look so much better in his timber than jap honeysuckle. And Elburn, isn't that where PanAmerican Seed is? If it is, I know the way......and it's right by St. Charles and The Natural Garden. Soon, it's road trip time......
terry, We grow Rose of Sharon here and all over my town, many beautiful varieties, it is very hardy here and easy to trim into a tree form or multiple trunked bush. I love it's winter form also, it is quite a dark horse. I would highly recommend it.
Waiting for lightning to strike in/near Thornton, with the mention of Hibiscus syriacus......
PrairieGirl, since they're native to India and China and I'm not, I think I'll pass. Thanks for the suggestion though.....
John John......still waiting for those sambucus......and I really am turning blue now.......think I'll quit holding my breath.....
Terry
Well that explains why they grow so well here, Thornton's got a HUGE limestone quarry...I just assumed since they grow like a weed. Well these have escaped into the wild then. :-O