ok i have went and bought a pond starter kit, i need to know if ponds are suppose to be in full sun or in shade,i have heard both would like to get some info from dg'rs before i decide on where to put it.it messures 3ft X 6 ft X 18" i know someone can help and is this big enough for goldfish and does anyone leave their pond going all winter and if so is it a good thing? plmk and any help would be appriciated thxs again
moretz
help please new pond!!!!!!!!!!!!
Moretz...if you have good filtration, whether or not it's artificial (it can be from plants too) you can tolerate more sun. Lilies and lotus will bloom from the sunnier side of life, although algae will as well. Your pond is big enough for fish, but not many. I'd go with only 3-4 4" goldfish, and a few mosquito fish. There are true mosquito fish, as well as small feeder fish you get at the pet store. Either work, as do (in the warm weather of summer) mollies, guppies, rosie barbs, tetras, etc. Many breed like crazy in the warm summer months. Remember, pet shops had to have gotten them from the wild to begin with! Being in zone 7, I'd make sure there was SOME sun, to get thing going and growing. You will want some plants for your fish (and eventually tadpoles) to hide in.
MerryMary
merrymary,
thxs for the info i will look into it more before i start on this. my 11 year old wants fish and i figure she would want alot but as long as she has a few ,i figure she would be happy. thxs again for the info
moretz
Moretz...remember, goldfish are surface breathers as well as gill breathers under water, so stay awat from true koi...Goldfish come in exotic colors now, and have regular tails, fantails, and butterfly fins. I only have 2 true koi, and actually the butterfly fin goldfish are more attractive, weather tolerant, and user friendly. Good luck!
Moretz, I would encourage you to think about leaves and roots if you dig a pond under trees. We have a skimmer system that does a great job of getting them before they sink and become muck, but I still use a net because I dislike empting the net more than once a week. Also make sure you go two foot deep in the center and have water movement on the surface, so the fish will over winter. We had to HAND dig due to accessability issue into the back yard, and I always wish I had a larger deep area. Too much of my pond has ledges, they are great for plants though. Another thing, we bought a kit with the 45 mil liner and the felt underlay for our main pond. But also bought a cheaper kit later for a second pond. The liner was thinner and it didn't have the underlayment. I would encourage you if your kit didn't have one to purchase one, it protects the liner from roots, and rocks.
As for fish, I have Koi and Shubunkin. I enjoy them both but won't buy more Koi because of their size. Subunkin are in the goldfish family, are adorable, fun to watch, small, colorful and less expensive than Koi.
Good luck and welcome to ponding! Dave's is a great place to get info, but here is a neat site with a lot of information that I found helpful from time to time. http://www.fishpondinfo.com/ It is a lady that has compiled so much info from her experience and links to find anything else you want. Great place to start.
Sheila
sheila,
thxs for the link,and info i want to do this right so i wont have to redo it,i know dg'ers are great at everything and that is why i wanted to start here before i got started lol.thxs again for everything
moretz
moretz, the fan tail goldfish are great. I have two that swim up when I go to feed them. Your eleven year old will enjoy that. In the spring, I plan to add a couple of shubunkin.
thxs i know shewill love any fish lol,she is an animal lover,
well i was hoping to start digging my pond this week but it turned cold here50's for the highs and 20's for the lows so i know the ground is frozen so i guess i will have to wait some more lol
thxs to all who have helped me cant wait to get started
Kids love ponds. You'll have a great time and may want a bigger pond if this one you start with is a positive experience. You may want to see if there is a pond tour in your area where you can get some ideas.
You might think about bringing goldfish into an aquariuam for the winter. 18 inches is not very deep. I'm in zone 6 or 7 depending on who you talk to. I've always been told at least 2 feet.
Be aware of raccoons who might want to dine on your fish. Also, if you get lots of leaves in your yard, if those leaves go in your pond it may result in bad water quality for your fish. You can get water quality test kits.
Also, I know of several people who did small preformed ponds put a few plants in then filled it with water and IMMEDIATELY added goldfish. Unfortunately, no one told them about the chlorine in their tap water being fatal to fish. The next day they go out and find dead fish.
wow thxs for all the info i think i need to look in to this more before i start it lol we have ewll water not city water so i guess that is a good thing, thxs to everyone that has gave advice
Moretz....You can get chorine remover for the water (as most of us have to fill our ponds initially with the hose). I would fill it, use the chloramine(chlorine) remover and still let it sit there a few days....then add the plants....then a few days later, add your fish....
Don't be discouraged to find a dead one or 2 the next morning, the water balance will eventually take place. Start with cheap small goldfish, then when you see they're surviving, you can add larger and more expensive fish. Sheila and Fireant are correct, the goldfish they have now are wonderful. The shubunkins are calico in color, and many times have long flowing fins. They will grow to whatever size you pond is. The Koi tend to get much too large, eat your plants, are expensive, and are far less hardy to things such as ph levels, temperatures, diseases, etc....Sarasa comets (goldfish) are beautiful red and white color combos and hardy.
:)
MerryMary
I agree with a previouse post ...THINK TWICE before putting your pond under or near large trees, leaves and lack of light for some plants( full shade will keep most lillies/lotus from blooming) makes this a BAD choice...My best pond is one that gets sun til about 2-3 in the afternoon... my worst ponds get shade most of the day and one that gets no shade ( although the full sun pond is now great since installing a turbo twist 36 watt uv3 sterilizer to handle the excessive green water problem ) ... Yes ,as I did, you can use this and that to adjust for excessive sun...so if I had a choice I'd use full sun anyday before full or mosly shade...Remember placement of your pond is the most important part of any installation think three times before making a decision...and remember trees grow they really DO ;>) Hope this helps!!! David
Moretz, I made my first (and so far only) water garden about 18 months ago. It's based on a preformed liner and only about 2 feet by 3.5 feet by 18 inches deep. I have 4 gold fish and it is in full shade. I really like the effect of a pond in the shade--very quiet and peaceful. TIPS: I don't try to grow any water plants in the shade and I do use the net to skim off leaves most days when I feed the fish--no biggie it just takes a couple of minutes. Also I put my pump in a plastic filter box I got from the pond section at Lowe's to further protect it from any debris. I built a small water fall to go into the pond so it's well aerated--that many fish in such a small pond might be a problem otherwise. We got through our first winter last year no problem--zone 7b--even with just 18 inches of water. We had many below freezing nights, but the flow from the waterfall kept everything icefree. I did raise my pump a little so I wasn't drawing the colder surface water all the way to the bottom. I thought the fish would be happier that way. One plus for shade--no algea problems. :)
Pretty pond, skidsgarden. The rock you have surrounding your pond is attractive. I also like the effect of the waterfall coming from a pool above. I am waiting for a few of my tropical plants to grow up enough to shade my pond. I think the shade provides a better effect and environment for a pond, especially in places where the sun is intense.
yes very nice,thxs for sharing all the info, i cant do my pond right now ,the ground is froze but i will as soon as i can
i hope everyone had a great christmas,i sure did
thxs again!!!!!!!!!!!
ok i dug my pond--well me and 2 other very best friends did it isent that big but already seeing where i am going to make it bigger, will post pics later sorry havent taken any pics yet, no plants around it so looks bare right now but will post when i have time to take pics thxs to you all here for helping and would love some fish to in there any recomendations? it is 3'X6'X18" so it wont hold to many fish right now but i am already planning on making it bigger lol.i saw an albino catfish but not sure how many of them i could have unless i get on catfish and maybe some others please help me on this i am new at it but know i cant have too many for it since it is small
thxs moretz
p.s. i need sugestions on plants too and if any one has any to trade fish/plants thxs
moretz
Hiya moretz. You've had a lot of good advice here! I might have plants for you, but I won't really know until spring when stuff comes out again. We had a hard winter this year.
I thought maybe the easiest thing I could do in terms of giving any advice for you would be to post the things I'm glad I did, as well as the things I wish I had done differently. Then you can use whatever is useful to you and toss the rest.
I'm glad:
I made my pond deep in the middle, made a stream area with waterfall, included a skimmer box and a bottom 'drain' that pulls stuff from the bottom of the pond into the skimmer, have a shallow beach area that then drops off into the deep water, attached a veggie filter to the pond, made my own waterfall filter for much less money than I could buy one.
I wish I had:
made my plant shelves a little bit shallower around the edges, not put any mosquito fish in the pond (or only one of them at most since the goldfish eat mosquito larvae, too) , not bought as many 'feeder fish' to start my filter (since they all survived just fine and then took up fish space that I wanted for other fish), used larger rocks on the bottom, not believed the books that said that mortar would stick to the liner just fine (it doesn't) .
When you start your pond, start a thread so we can follow along!
Just a thought after reading the post by Pixydish...Mosquito fish have been shown to be very poor predators of mosquito larvae. Putting them into any water body to control mosquitoes usually results in a decline in the rest of fauna normally associated with the pond/pool. I know there are mosquito control districts in many parts of the country that use them and may even swear by them but their efficacy is antectodal and not real. Sorry to get off topic but just wanted to reinforce the idea of not adding them for mosquito control but instead because you like mosquito fish.
It has been my experience that regular old goldfish do a pretty good job at eating mosquito larvae. After loosing a couple pricey fish, I went with WAlmart purchased gold fish which have not only had babies twice but overwinter in my very Northern pond. I leave a small water circulator in and it keeps a small 1-2 foot area free of ice in even 20 below temperatures. You do not need to feed in extreme heat or cold, so you do not feed them all winter either.
Catfish are not a good idea in a small pond, they rubble through the bottom making the water cloudy and muddy, and eat the other fish.
Koi are temperature and water quality sensitive. Go for the regular goldfish/comets. They now come in a large variety of shapes, sizes and colors. Try to not mix the fantails with the normal tails. Fantails are cumbersome swimmers and tend to get chewed on by others. Shubunkin goldfish are calico in color and can be quite pretty. Sarassa goldfish are red and white, and very attractive as well. Both can take temperature extremes and adverse conditions. I have on living in a wheelbarrow for 3 years waiting for my pond to be completed!
There are other smaller schooling fish to handle the mosquito larvae problem, usually sold as "feeder fish" at the pet store for about 12cents each. They max out at about 2 inches and are peachy colored. The goldfish however, do a great job at keeping mosquitoes at bay as well.
MerryMary
WOW! thanks everyone for letting me know about the fish,sounds like goldfish is what i need to start out with or even keep in there,i saw some for .10cents at petsmart the other day,i think i might try them and see what happens, that way if i lose them i wont be out of much money lol because i am saving up to get me a bigger liner to extend my pond to have a biger one near the bottom, iwill take pics and let you all see what i(we) have done so far thxs again-going to take pics
moretz
I didn't know goldfish ate mosquito larve. That's nice to know. Can Shubunkin be mixed with fantailed goldfish?
Fireant...probably not the best idea to mix them, but I have infact had both at the same time. I just made sure the fantails were extra large, and had some plants and rocks they could hang out near, for a little extra protection. If you pick out the shubunkins with the longer flowing tails, it slows them down a bit too, and they are less likely to play cat and mouse.
MerryMary
Uh oh MerryMary, what do you mean "cat and mouse". I added four baby shubunkin to my pond. I got them from Pixydish and neither of us thought there might be a problem. Have you had bad experiences mixing goldfish and shubunkin? If so, what happened?
No, you can mix normal goldfish and shubunkin (which are calico goldfish) but not with fantail goldfish ( the plumper kind, slower swimmers, go more up and down than forward, etc) The fantails tend to get nipped on, because they can't swim fast, like normal
"tailed" fish....
I had one fantail, Edlardo, who was fat, and about the size of a baseball, so he held his own against my 8 inch goldfish and shubunkins, or could at least go behind the water iris's for protection, but some of the smaller ones may not be able to get away.
MerryMary
Only problem I've had is that the shubunkins cant out run the snakes as well as the regular goldfish :(
Oh!:( That's something I do not have to deal with. My shubunkins get along famously with my koi and my comets. The comets and the shubunkins appear to interbreed, as I had many, many little goldfish that appeared to be developing spots when they went off to their new homes. They also had differently shaped and longer fins.
Pixy, PLEASE tell me anything you know about fish breeding...how big is your pond, how big are your fish, etc....I have never yet had a single babe, so I'm trying to figure out why everyone else has them! I have a very healthy pond...so what's the secret? How long are your fish? I have comets, sarassas, shubunkins, and only 2 koi.....(some little feeder fish that are peach and only an inch or 2 long)
Do they breed at certain times of the year? Certain weather conditions? Certain.....anything.....?
Any info you have would be MOST appreciated!
:)
MerryMary
MerryMary, your fan tailed goldfish was the size of a baseball? That's incredible. Mine have gotten really fat and a little longer since I got them in October, but not baseball size. They also are getting a bumpy looking growth on their "foreheads" (the closest thing I can liken it to). One seems shyer than the other, staying below the surface and letting food drift down, but the other is bolder and just about eats out of my hand.
I am away for four days this weekend in Pensacola for my daughter's senior art show, so I fished them out and have them with a babysitter, who has an aquarium. Since I leave the cat out, I was afraid he would get bored and try to catch them. If I get more fish, I guess I'll get more fan tailed goldfish.
The pond is as green as pea soup. I can't seem to fix it. I have it emptied now and will clean all the algae off when I return and start again. My BiL gave me something that turns the water blue. Does it work? It says fish safe.
Fireant....I'd love to take credit for the large fish, but he was a gift and already fairly large when he arrived. Otherwise, in reality, I never would have added a fantail to my pond. Regular tailed varieties are easier, hardier, and just more "fish-like".
He (she?) grew a bit more after he arrived. I killed him one day leaving the hose in the ping, to add a little bit of water (ya right, when I came back a day later I realized I had added the hose and then forgot all about it). I lost a great many of my huge jumbo fish, including him and a shubunkin that was about 10 inches long. A VERY sad day for me (total loss = 11 large fish)
Of course the water was crystal clear, but not worth the price I paid!
I've never heard of the blue stuff, so let me know if it works. I have a clear water plan that works, but I can't really tell you why...it's a mix of many things. For one, this time of year, here in Florida, brings peasoup water. The days are warm, the nights are cold, and something takes control. I have added a barley ball, and a copper algae killer tube that I found on ebay. Those, as well as a tiny addition of water to flood it (not the amount of water talked about above) seem to work. This is the first year I have also had string algae in my smaller water gardens. I have no clue how something just "shows up" even though it has never been there before. Science tells me there had to be the "first" seed or cell, but my water gardens tell me something different. I am adding some waterlilies and lotus tubers, to keep a natural water filtration going, so I'll let you know how that works as well. I also got some water lettuce, so we'll see how that works! I'm all for trying things that really work, it just takes a while to find out which one that actually is! The copper pipes from ebay intrigued me....they are copper tubes, with silver centers, and kill the single cell plants (algae) but not the double cell plant life, such as the normal plants. It made sense, knowing the use a copper additive to kill algae blooms in large ponds.
MerryMary
Mary, I wish I could tell you I knew the secret! Actually, I am more interested in fish birth control. You'll hate this, but I just put this pond in this year!!! I finished it in June. However, that being said, this is a huge pond - 4500 gallons. I have never had a problem with pea soup algae, even when I first set up the pond. I do get plenty of string algea, but I don't worry too much about it. I add about a gallon of hydrogen peroxide, the kind you clean wounds with, about every month or so, then follow up with some of the powdered bacteria you can buy to supplement the natural bacteria in the pond. I do this only as a precaution - the extra bacteria can help keep any dead algea I can't reach from fouling thepond.
The fish that breed like rabbits are not really that big. The mommy shubunkin is probaby about 10 inches now, but was a couple of inches smaller when I put her in the pond. The other shubunkins are a bit smaller than she is. The goldfish were feeder size fish I bought at Petco. I bought them in march and had them in a wading pool until the pond was ready.
I do have a lot of filtration on my pond, and I have more water flow than is strictly necessary. The pond is almost 3 feet deep in the middle, and I have a large shallow water section that is like a rock beach. I have many different marginal plants in this area and they provide excellent cover for breeding fish and their fry. In terms of filtration, I have a large waterfall filter that I made myself, and I have a veggie filter that has about 1/4 the surface area of the pond. I believe that this makes the biggest difference.
When the water leaves the pond, half of it goes through the waterfall filter, and the other half is diverted to the veggie filter. This is an area that is about 18 inches deep. The water comes in through the bottom of this and filters up through pea gravel before spilling into the pond. I have fast growing reeds and other plants in this area that take up the excess nutrients from the water.
As a rule, my water is very clear unless I get in there and stir things up. In the summer, if I thought it looked a bit cloudy, I would clean out the skimmer and the make sure the flow to the pump was good, and then add a little of the powdered bacteria. This seemed to clear it right up.
My guess is that temperature and water quality has something to do with it. The comets were probably bout 6 inches long when all the breeding was going on. Maybe population density has something to do with it, too?
My koi are still too young to breed.
moretz....I'm afraid if we have a cold winter your fish may become a popsicle !. But you might consider buying one of the pond heaters for next winter and only run it during the very coldest months we have here. Jan and Feb ?
i hope they wont but if they do then i will know what to do for them, i cant wait until i make it bigger but have to get a liner before i even think about getting any fish plus too cool, we havent had a bad winter yet and i kinda hope we dont but if we do i will watch to see what it does to the pond, do you keep yours going all winter Charlotteda? is this a good idea to keep it going any advise would be helpfull and thxs
moretz
I'm in the same zone as you...upstate SC near the mountains..I may be just a tad warmer as I am not sure where Hickory is.
My pond has a deep spot in the middle...we had planned for it to be about 24" deep at the deepest part but it ended up being about 20. I do keep the little water fall running all winter - I have a cheap UV light that I unplug. I dont have a heater. Only once have we had enough sustained cold weather that the pond started to freeze. But since we dont have bitterly cold weather here the running water from the falls kept the pond from freezing over completely.
Everyones situation is a little different as we all have different temps/locations/sun/even different water chemistry. No matter how big you build it - you will probably later wish it was bigger. Just try to avoid the charm of putting too many fish in it in the beginning.
good luck
charlotte
I have a pond that is 3,800 gals. I have about 30 feeder gold fish. Even though this years weather has really not been the norm.. I can not for the life of me figure out why mine won't breed either. I have a good filter system, plenty of underwater plants for them to play hide and seek in. I put them in last spring, they were just little guys them. Now they are about 6 to 8 inches long. They come up during the warmer part of the day and go to the bottom at night. My pond is about 2 ft. deep. Any ideas?
Thanks,
Melanie
I really don't know, Melanie but since you asked, I looked into it a bit. It appears that a gradual temperature change from winter into spring will stimulate the fish to breed. Where I live, this is what we get. We don't get 'warm' days until summer. Also, even in summer we get cooler nights. In addition, it appears that I have asked for trouble by putting in that shallow beach area with lot of soft plants and lots of little rocks for the fry to hide in.
The first link is to a fairly informative page, although I totally disagree with her point about removing eggs or none will survive.! LOL If I had SEEN the eggs, I would have removed some, but I still had plenty of fish survive without removing eggs. I think the key is the amount of cover provided. .
http://www.fishpondinfo.com/gfish3.htm#bred
http://www.geocities.com/adams_goldfish101/breeding.html
This is a photo of The Lovely Lady Lily, the momma fish of all the shubunkins and possibly some of the others, too. Katy got some of Lily's fish and I can't wait to see how they turned out!
