how do you ship your live plants

Just curious....received some disintergrated day lily bulbs,
wrapped in paper bags in a
cereal box....they were smashed
to smitterings!

Jerrie

I get the priority mail boxes from the post office. You get them for free at any post office along with free self-adhesive priority mail labels. Just ask for the size you want. I write fragile in red on every side of the box. These boxes are much more sturdy than cereal type boxes.

I make a bowl out of several layers of water soaked newspaper, wrap the roots in the "bowl" and then wrap the roots in produce grocery sacks or zip locks or baggies or cling wrap. Never in aluminum foil because this cooks the plants in the box. Especially with the heat during this time of year. Then put them in at least 3 normal plastic grocery sacks, each time covering the open end of the sack with the bottom of the next. This helps protect them with padding and aids in retaining moisture around all the plants.

It is also fine to mail on Saturday because mail still is in transport on Sunday. I have found that I usually receive my plants faster from others when they are mailed on Saturday (usually get them Monday), perhaps because the post office only has to focus on transporting them instead of dealing directly with the public.

This message was edited Wednesday, Aug 8th 6:48 PM

Exactly the right point about the PO Violet. People think that mailing on Wednesday is good, but Saturday and Monday are the very best days to mail and keep it moving (former postal employee here, no jokes!!) I will disagree on one point though. Marking it fragile is a call to damage. Unfortunately, it's like a challenge. I don't mark mine anything, not even perishable, and so far I haven't heard of any problems, just that it got there in great condition.
Jerrie, I'd contact the trader and tell her that they came to you un-usable. It's her responsibility to package correctly.

That interesting tiG about the "fragile" part especially coming from a former employee!!

I may have to pick your brain now that I know this. Perhaps you can clarify "metering" vs. "hand cancelling" these days and going thru the "machine/"crusher".

I was at my local PO last week and was told they can't hand cancel anymore, that it has to go to the "main" post office to be done. Half the time when you write it on there it doesn't get done anyway. What's the point of telling us how to do things if they crush the packages marked "fragile" and ignore the special requests? Why are they provided to us as options? Or are times changing and services less and postage more?

Eagerly await your reply!

Violet

Of course, most postal employees are just like everyone else, they wouldn't hurt something that belongs to someone else. But there are a few, and it's not just postal employees, the mail travels on airlines, and when they're getting loaded there, it's airline employees doing the damage. We've seen specials on tv showing that they get some pleasure out of doing the opposite of what you want. Quite a few airline employees in Atlanta went to jail for destroying the mail. It's just an invitation to someone who is looking for this very type thing.
I worked as a rural carrier, so I only know a bit about the inside the huge office things, I would be the last person to touch your mai before it got to you:) but i do know that if you pay 45 cents for an envelope, it is *supposed* to be then treated as a package, not a letter. Letters are what go through the machine. But your clerk has to put it in with the packages. My post office is very small and she sees me almost daily. She knows that I'm sending seeds. But sometimes even if you tell them, if they don't do it right that second, (big offices) they will put it in a letter tray, and there go your seeds. As a package, it travels around in tubs, and is hand dated at the counter. As for the difference in metered mail and other, I don't really know. My sister works as a clerk and I can ask her more.
The problem I have with the postal service is that their money is made by priority mail. They lose money on every other service. And yet, they spend billions on advertising. Why advertise????? We know what our options are. And then they just signed a partnership with Fedex for the express mail, it's supposed to save them billions, and yet prices just went up again!!
Anyway, I never write anything on the outside giving a clue. I wrap my seeds in bubble wrap, even poppy seeds get at least a paper towel around them. And I try very hard to mail plants on Monday or Tuesday or Saturday. Even Friday is good. Wednesday and Thursday are spelling murder for your plants. just my two cents:)

Thanks tiG and Violet, just wanted to know so I do it right!

Jerrie

hey eyes I emailed u about this one.
luv nana

I agree Tig I never mark mine,that's like saying hello
wanna have fun.with my box.
luv nana
I also mail on sat. now but it's not because the post
office does'nt have customers,they have a person that
does pri.mail only,pick up and delivery.I like to
mail mine because there's not as many packages going out pri.and they seem to get there alot smoother.In fact sandy
is the one who taught me about it.She sure does know
how to how to mail plants and Tig i don't use any new paper
at all .When you get your box see if you like the what I came up . luv nana

Well you do what you can and despite telling them there is live plants in a box and it needs to be there yesterday.They do as they may with them once they are out of your sight.
Eyes if the plants are not plantitable I'll send you some new ones, I'll see what i still have to share.
Mike

My small rural post office told me if you put 45 cent postage on an envelope it will not go through the machines because it is for thicker envelopes.Unfortunately that is not so as I received one with a 45 cent stamp and it had gone through the machine even though it had Please Hand Sort written on the bottom of it.Luckily the seeds were in bubblewrap and the damage was minimal.Last week I received a envelope with and apology from the Postal Service. It was a regular envelope with first class postage. Inside was supposed to be Portulaca seeds but when it arrived it had been put in a Postal Service baggie along with the apology and it had been torn in half with nothing left inside. I have found that the only safe way to send seeds is in a padded or bubble envelope which can't go through the machines. It costs more for the envelopes(I pay 49cents ea.)but I know they will get there in one piece.

I know this is a little late and I usually stay away from the post office griping threads. I just want to say a couple of words in defense of the postal worker. I've been a postal worker for 13 years. I work nights sorting mail - I'm the last stop before it goes to the mail carrier. The Postal Service does a poor job at handling packages - I'll be the first to admit that and everyday I see boxes that have been crushed. First and foremost - marking a package fragile does not make it a target for frustrated workers. I have never ever EVER seen an employee deliberately crush a package. The words you write on the box will only be seen by a couple of workers - if they even see it. It's sort of like expecting the checkout lady at the grocery store to see you've written fragile on the box of cornflakes you're buying with your $200 weeks worth of groceries ~ and you want the bagger to put it on top of the bag. Most workers take their jobs very seriously & purposely destroying mail would be a cause for termination. Someone might get away with it a couple of times but they'd eventually be caught and fired.

Stealing is not a very common occurrence in the USPS. Stealing mail is federal offense and any accusations are followed up by thorough investigation. Meaning - if a worker is suspected of stealing - they'll be watched by postal inspectors & hidden cameras until they have the evidence to terminate them. In my 13 years the office I work in has had maybe 4 workers fired for stealing .... and believe me they weren't stealing plants or seeds! My office is not all that big compared to many in the country but it's the mail distribution center of our state and all mail coming into or going out of the state comes through our office.

The cause for damaged mail is most likely done by machines and the clerk you give you package to at the window and the mail carrier that brings it to your door are 2 of about 4 people that will touch your package. Packages are sorted into large sacks and steel cages. These sacks and cages are literally dumped onto conveyor belts of machines; a worker will key the zip of the package (unless it's read by a machine) and it rides down the belt into another sack where it will be dispatched for it's destination. If your package is at the bottom of the sack it will have hundreds more dumped on top of it. The sack for your state might have a dozen more sacks dumped on top of that. You can paint you package florescent orange with FRAGILE written in twelve inch letters but the machines can't read. It will still get dumped into a sack and have other boxes dumped on top.

Best advice I can give about mailing plants is to take the time to package them properly. Make sure there is no air space in the box and the plants aren't rolling around inside. Make sure the box is sturdy corrugated cardboard - Flimsy shoe boxes won't have a chance. Make sure your box is not dripping and getting wet from the plants inside. Once the cardboard gets wet it's easily torn and crushed. A dripping box might very well get delayed to keep it from damaging other mail. Priority mail boxes are probably the best to use - the red white & blue boxes are a red flag to workers that it's a first class piece of priority mail and should be sorted that day. If mail is backed up and it won't all get delivered we will pick out the priority boxes and make sure they get sorted. Delivery confirmation only tells you when and where your piece is delivered. If your package from California going to Florida takes a detour up to Michigan the postal service will not hold any responsibility for it. You still loose. Insurance is the only way they will reimburse you for the plants and that won't bring you plants back to life.

I take no offense to postal service gripes - and believe me I could write a book..... I just want you all to realize what your package goes through in the mail stream. I've seen a lot of changes in the Postal Service and every change eliminates more and more human contact with the mail. Their goal is to have every single piece sorted by machine - in another twenty years they'll probably have robots deliver it to your door. Most of the postal service buget goes to newer - bigger - better - faster - and badder machines and less & less to employees hand sorting. Machines are constantly being redesigned to sort faster and handle a broader range of shapes and sizes. Lots of mail might get destroyed along the way but I guess that's progress if a machine does it rather than a human.

I'm with you there, Poppy, we just need to use steel reinforced boxes. lol

Jerrie

I wrap the roots of my plants in paper toweling, place the whole thing in a zip lock bag and soak well without having too much standing water. I blow up the bags a little before sealing to give a cushion of air around the plants so that they are protected a little bit more. Then I fill any extra airspace with packaging peanuts. I sometimes place some plastic grocery sacks or trash can liners on the bottom in case there is any leakage. Haven't had any problems with this and everyone has told me the plants arrived in good shape. (Did have some leakage when I tried shipping some larger stuff that wouldn't fit in a baggie - some water soaked through and the box got a little wet but the plants were still fine. Ever since, will put these larger plants in an additional layer of plastic grocery sack to prevent leakage). Anyway, that method seems to work pretty good for me. Fortunately, I don't have to deal with the post office for my packages since my husband works for DHL and we get an employee discount so I'm able to send overnight cheaper than I can send UPS.

karen, I have had plants that were totally inside a baggie arrive here with the mushiest rottenest leaves, and they didn't recover. Most people that I have gotten trades from only wrap the root part in the baggie. I do that, and then gently roll the plant up in newspaper, like a big cigarette.

Just have to add my 2 cents in concerning the Postal workers. I knew of a new postal worker who said that the others joked about throwing out mail of people that they didnt like. Said it happens. My maillady is insane and I have witnessed her run over garbage pails and drag them for a couple of houses and on Fridays she does about 100 mph between mailboxes ( properties are only 100 feet apart!!) I am always polite to her and give her Christmas money even tho everyweek I receive some kind of note concerning the height of my mailbox, snow, whatever she feels like writing that day. I also dont mail anything from my house... all goes to the PO.
Postal workers are people too who have major stress with the job. Person I know quit after a month.

Janice, I worked as a carrier for 9 years. You should complain about your carrier. You'd think it would make it worse, but don't let that slide! She's under no more stress than any other job, and she gets paid very good money. just my two cents, and I wouldn't say it if I hadn't been there.

Just to chime in with my two cents....

I've traded a lot of plants and seeds, and I've always followed tiG's advice (though I didn't know it was his until today! :) ) and not marked a thing on the outside of the packages.

The people I have traded with who experienced the most frequent mail losses also were the ones who marked up their packages the most with "fragile", etc. One fellow would even write a note on the back of the letter, addressing the "post-person" directly.

I don't know if the letter-marking was a result of the chance bad luck with the postal service or if the bad luck was a result of the letter-marking, or some cross between the two. Either way I've had a lot of good luck with not marking the package at all.

To be safe I wrap seeds in bubble wrap and insert this into a manila envelope. This is cheaper than a padded envelope and makes a thicker package as well. A thicker package doesn't go through the machines, as was pointed out. :) I'm told nothing thicker than 1/4" can go through the machines, but I think they are suppossed to charge more postage for that. My rural postmasters rarely charge more than a single first class stamp, but I always take the envelope to the counter just to make sure it doesn't get returned to me for insufficient postage.

I do plants much like what was described earlier. A good sturdy, corrugated, undamaged box is used. Thus is isn't any more vulnerable than it needs to be, and if there is ANY damage when it gets there, I know it happened en route. I wrap the roots (if bare rooted) in moist paper towels (too much water causes rot) and wrap that in plastic wrap. I also usually enclose the leaf portion in plastic, though not completely air tight. Potted plants are sent such that the soil is just barely damp, and the pot wrapped in plastic. Too much water is extra weight, but of course a dry pot risks serious damage by the time it gets there (dehydration).

Good luck!
Glider

tiG is a her:) but other than that you got it right! LOL!!

probably thinks georgiaredclay is a gal
also....hee, hee, hee....=:)

if he is, he's a big ole girl!!!! LOL!!!!!!!

Now you can call me pop, and you can call me dad, and you can call me paw paw but you don't have to call me Mama.

This message was edited Friday, Jul 20th 6:48 PM

Hee..hee..hee..hee...hha..hha..hee..hee...hha..ha...hiccop! Oh, Jim!

A new method that I found ships good if sending a small planted plant is to get one of the larger plastic cups from McDonald's (why do I keep talking food?) and take the potted plant and set it inside the plastic cup. The plastic cup almost comes up to the top of the priority box. Then I take a four cup cardboard holder, and you can guess where it comes from, and place the cup in one of the four slots and try to wedge it down good so it won't come loose. I then fill up with either peanuts or newspaper. I water the plant the day before so that the soil is still damp but not running out the bottom of the pot. So far every one that I have mailed this way says they arrive in good shape. When I ask some one if they arrived in good shape I always hope they tell me the truth so I can improve on the next shipment. Thinking about getting a patent on this idea. Of course I would let all you friends here at Dave's use it for free. Now to figure out what to do about the patent and the Mcdonald's lawyers I would be facing in court. Jim

or they can do like we do Jim. Meet and talk forever!!! Next time's at my house though!!! I have chairs and we don't have to stand at that store and be bothered by those trucks!

I agree with some of the points about the mail.First off ,I don't think the majority of postal employes wreck your packages on porpose.Most people don't realize that the post office , ups, fed x etc...have a system.the package comes in ,gets sorted,by a sorter who has an average of 3 seconds per package to read your state & zip and get it to the proper belt,it goes down the belts,which sometimes get jammed,it then gets to a loader who has about 4 seconds to load it in a tractor trailer,and yes ,your box can be at the bottom,if its going far,it might luck out and be loaded in a air container(about 4 of these fit in a trailer),and again yours may be at the bottom and it gets driven to another place to get sorted again etc....Moral of the story.Pack the boxes as if you had eggs in them and you know they are going thru the the tumble cycle of your dryer.

tiG Those trucks were awful. So others will know, the place we met was a wide spot in the road between Newnan and Lagrange called Corinth. A one store wide place in the road with the most excitement around the new 4 way stop sign. Everyone in town gathered around and said lets sign a song in honor of the occasion. Both of them joined in and sung a beautiful duet. The next big occasion was the meeing of tiG and I. The duet showed up and also all the trucks in Coweta and Troup Counties. Each truck had to stop at the 4 way stop and then gun their motors as they pulled off.The chair sounds good but put the shovels in the shed while I'm there. Jim

Absolutely unbelievable! I am just about to start thinking about plant trades and I luck into this marathon thread. I hope you all know how wonderful it is to be part of this site. It is absolutely unique for someone starting out like me. In just a few weeks I have learned more than a horticulture course.
Ruth

I forgot more than I ever knew. Jim

Sorry guys, I have to disagree about the .45 cent rule of letters. There is no such rule. Automation today can handle almost any size envelope. All letter mail dropped in the mail stream will go through an AFC, (this machine cancels the stamps and faces the envelopes). If the envelope is too thick (this is the key) it is rejected (doesn't go through the canceling process). It is then handled by hand, usually in section 030 (outgoing letter non-machineable mail).

If you use a large manilla envelope it will be processed on another machine, the FSM (Flat Sorting Machine). This machine uses what is called a finger to push the mail along the machine until it reaches its assigned chute where it will slide down into a flat bucket. If your envelope is bulky or lop-sided this finger can tear your envelope - there go your seeds.

If you use the priority boxes available through the Postal Service your box will be either hand cancelled if you use stamps or the Postal Clerk will place a meter strip on the box which does not require cancelling. The Clerk will place the box in the appropriate container for dispatch.

If the item you are mailing is not large enough to require a box, (an envelope of seeds) I suggest using a padded envelope (also available at the Post Office or your local Wal-Mart). The Clerk that accepts the package should place it in a container (usually a flat tub) for processing at the plant, (usually by hand).

So, in summary: Best bet is to use either a padded envelope or a priority box. You can order the priority boxes to come to your home by going on the Postal Service's web page: www.usps.com (the boxes are free). ((You can use any sturdy box, it does not have to be a Priority box.))

Remember - Priority boxes can only be used when shipping within the U.S. The Postal Service has other boxes available for shipping internationally.

Hope this helps.
(I am a Postmaster)

FG Welcome to Dave's. You can't get away from work can you. I bet each time some one finds out your work they have questions. Jim

Hi FG,
Are you saying that when my postmaster puts 45 cents on my fat envelope, and puts it in a parcel tub, that it won't stay there? Someone will mix it back in with letters???
btw, welcome to Dave's! I was a rural carrier for 9 years and am currently considering taking a ptf position. I'm crazy, right??? LOL!!

No, That is the proper way to handle a fat envelope. (Putting it in a flat tub (Parcel tub)). But an ordinary letter weighing over 1 oz (costs more than .45 cents) goes through the automation process. You want your local Postal employee to place your "fat" envelope in the flat tub. If you use a padded envelope you just have more protection. And sometimes those regular envelopes are mixed back in. The push today is to get every piece of letter mail through automation - less hands on by people - more cost effective. With a padded envelope it can not go through the AFC. Good luck with the PTF position. That's how I started out about 11 years ago.

tiG,

There is an interesting thread concerning "New Postal Regs?" here: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/exseed/msg0915451530598.html?24

Can any of you former/current postal employees tell us how we can find out what the "official" regulations are?

I don't understand why it's not universal as it is a government facility and needs to have universal standards for it's customers.

So then, why, when I offer seeds "free for a SASE", do I so often get a standard #10-size thin white envelope? Should I not even bother to mail seeds out in that? (In cases like that, I package the seed in a small manilla seed envelope & overwrap it with a paper napkin & reinforce the outside envelope with heavy clear wide tape all around. Is that all wasted effort,..& a waste of my free seed??

Lindap, it's not a waste. If the seed is small, a #10 envelope with a bit of bubble wrap or a piece of thin cardboard around the seeds can go through the normal mail process 99% of the time. There is a risk, but it is slight.

If the seed is large, you may be better off specifying the traders to send you loose postage equaling $.45 plus an additional amount of loose postage to compensate you for the bubble envelope you'll provide in return. I have gladly sent loose postage in excess of the amount needed if someone is providing a bubble envelope.

There are ways to make your own bubble envelopes. Tips for that and many other aspects of seed and plant trading are in a "soon-to-be released" trading primer. It is almost ready for Dave to post. (I won't "give away the ending"; I gotta hold back some of the tips for you to read when it is up!)

boy,am i learning alot from this site!!! all of you are so smart with all these tried and true tips. go_vols,violet, and tiG do you guys like to bake too? something tells me that all of you are wonderful bakers( you've probably sent some goodies in the mail,right?)

Does anyone have tips for sending bulbs and tubers?

Thanks!

Hi Violet,
When I ship bulbs & tubers, I carefully brush all of the excess dirt off, then put the dry tubers/bulbs in a
(lunch sized or larger) paper bag.
That way the bulbs/tubers can still breathe and hopefully not get moldy in transit. I write all of the info
about the tuber's size, color, etc.
on the outside of the bag. Then I ship in a Priority Mail box packed with foam peanuts (or newspaper) to protect the tuber(s).
'Hope this helps,
Oscarsdotter :-)

Violet, the Trading Primer addresses shipping bulbs and tubers: http://davesgarden.com/trading_primer/

Check out the "Trading Plants" section for details :)