Hi,
after a few failures in rooting cuttings in the wrong temperature water I have searched withhin the last few weeks for information on brugs who like to be rooted in cool temperatures and others who like it warm.
Since such a DATABASE would be sooooooo helpful for all beginners I hope that alot of gardeners in this forum would like to share their experience and just put down names .PLEASE contribute with your knowledge :-)
Thanks,
Brigitte
List of ROOTING WARM TEMPERATURE loving brugs
As far as I know the rule always has been cool clean water or they will rot.
Beware of another 'buzz word' like last year .........
when everyone wanted a 'bubbler' all of a sudden.
I have the best luck rooting most things (including brugs) at a soil temperature of 70 degrees and an air temperature of 55 degrees. The roots just come flying out of brugs under those conditions. I took cuttings of some about a month ago and all are well rooted 4" pots now that will be transplanted to gallons soon. My 2 cents :-)
Hi Brigitte,
I have never rooted in water or a bubbler. All of mine are planted in good, "enriched" potting soil, like Miracle Grow or Baeyers. Keep them moist but not wet. Out of maybe 75 cuttings, I may have lost 6 to rot. I do soak the cuttings that I have traded for overnite before putting them in a pot since they have been in transit for a couple days. I am in Zone 8.
If you need some cuttings replaced, DMail me.
God bless,
Margo
I believe this is Candida Flora Plena? She hated being in a pot. When I planted her she took off with new growth and blooms.
This message was edited Nov 10, 2005 10:32 AM
brigitte, i had such fun when laura sent out rooted cuttings. i didn't have enough time to pot all four, and just left them in a vase with some tap water. when i returned from disneyland 2 days later, the isabella's grew 3" roots! rosamond, on the other hand, still just had nubbies. so there are some brugs that are easier to root than others.
margo, that's a very beautiful white brug. i'll be shameless and ask for a cutting in case you'll give her a haircut. thanks.
annapet
This message was edited Nov 10, 2005 11:46 AM
Hi Margo,
That is a beautiful double white!! Got to ask you........did you (or do you) work for Burroughs & Chapin? I think I know you.
I'm going to be an "I want, I want".....I would love to have a cutting! I'll dmail you.
Barbara
Small world out here in the garden. Yes, jlmmkm is an old acquaintance of mine - I dmailed her and it's Margo that I used to work with. Can you believe it? You never know who you'll "see" in the gardne!
Hi Brigitte! You have the signs of deep brug lust. LOL. It happens to so many of us.
I am not even sure if certain brugs prefer dirt over water to root much less cold or warm water. I think again there are so many variables that affect the outcome. Everyone seems to find a special way that is more successful for them.
I find the time of year really lends itself to success or failure. In spring everything roots with such ease even if you do things wrong. In fall, we try to root them and in a way going against nature for they are trying to go dormant. You have just got to find away around it. I find woody cuttings do better in fall while green tips do fine in spring.
In fall using very fast draining soil is more important than using such soil in spring or summer when things dry out quickly.
Some brugs are just very hard to root and others will root if you just drop them on the ground and leave them be. RK and L'A are hard ones. They tend to rot.
Up till about a month or so ago, I could root anything just about. Now I am having rot. I figure it is not me (at least I am praying that, LOL) but some how my medium is bad. I am trying to figure it out. The trouble is, here it is getting way to wet to take cuttings of anything!
Hahahahaha, whew, I'm on the floor. BEWARE of another 'buzz word'???? LOL!! Scoot, your brugs, and other plants, are lovely, you are a talented gardner with a very green thumb, you are bright , experienced, well read and I when I need growing information I can count on, I consider you an excellent source - in fact I credit you for encouraging me to use MicroMix, which is the best plant product I use; however, I fail to see why you would discourage, via implication, a rooting method that is:
1) convenient,
2) fun (so fun to watch them root!),
3) inexpensive (requires very little heat, but can freeze, no artificial light & it you bubbler in the house no extra utilities
costs,
4) close to 100% success rate,
5) requires VERY little space, to root and
6) over winter special cuttings,
7) without the chore, expense, space of potting up before you know it's rooted,
8) with just about *zero* effort following initial setup,
9) which takes maybe 10 minutes, and
10) *no* changing of the water the entire time, which was four months, for me, last year (and what I like best about the bubbler!)
Please tell us about your bubbler experience and the pitfalls you encountered. Do you use H202? After the MicroMix, it's the 2nd best brug product I use. You may have missed it, but there is a photo of your precious, healthy Tuffy that Vee8 (smooch!!) sent me (on kereoke's bubblering thread) - Tuffy likes Arky and rooted, in her own private bubbler, in a matter of hours. Yes, the bubbler is trendy, but in this case the positives seem to greatly outweigh negatives...
This message was edited Nov 10, 2005 4:45 PM
Sherry, you forgot:
11) that she obviously had never tried it.
I have about 30 cuttings in bubblers and ALL, even the green ones that I have never had luck with before, have a lot of roots. Some of these are 8 feet tall. Others are 8 inches. They rooted in the warm house.
Thanks, Jnette!!! Growing methods aren't a competition, at least for me, they aren't. I was just born with great enthusiasm, with an adventurous spirit, but I like instant gratification. After having failed miserably with traditional methods of growing/rooting brugs, I was so disappointed I wanted to quit and knew it was going to be just like when I tried roses, one of my most expensive and disappointing failures. I was just knocked over and thrilled beyond words when I could root right before my eyes in my bubbler. The bubbler and my modest success has given me confidence and, shoot, I might even try roses again.
If anyone is inspired to try a bubbler, I would suggest you use individual containers for like brugs or brugs from the same tree or cutting, (like Monika does with her cuttings she roots in the winter in buckets), *never* move bubbler stones from container to container, unless the brug are from the same tree, only use bubbler stones once, or with one group of rooting brugs, and sterilize containers, and everything used in the bubbling process, before using again. Bubbler stones are 2 for one buck. H202 will make bubbler stones crumble, at least I think that's what makes them crumble because my bubbler stones did not crumble before i started using H202...this is stuff I learned after my first bubbler experience last Dec04...
Jnette,
............... re: your rude comment .............. " 11) that she obviously had never tried it. ""
How in the blazes would you presume to know anything about me ?
Your secret cam in my winter quarters has obviously malfunctioned.
FYI my dear ,
I have tried it large scale and see no benefit at all except for not having to monitor the cuttings.
The biggest drawback is one rotting cutting in a bubbler vessel containing may cuttings,
can and will contaminate with the bacteria produced by such putrid plant matter.
I prefer to keep the old tried & true ways and get satisfaction from monitoring their progress daily.
It is the safest way to assure my hybrids succeed .
Sherry
............... re;;h2o2 I have no reason to add that extra oxygen molucule with my methods. Fresh water has plenty of it.
Air stones and h2o2 are only tactics to keep OLD water alive.
Sherry, what's micromix?
I'm glad a I read this, I think I need to put my cuttings in something smaller and a mix that drains better...
I have been using my spring mix, and noticed it's not as productive as usual. Also our temp this time of year is the best for cuttings, but ...it's been warmer than usual.
I also had my first blooms Sherry, from the seeds I planted 2 years ago. The dog long ago ate the tags, but the blooms are very big white, remember I told you the booms were wider and puffier than usual. These are definately different than the Brazilian white ones the other seeds produced. The other one that I had the tag attached to, is once again not a B.Sang -
Advice anyone on my cuttings- Since it has been warmer than usual 80's/60's day/night. Should I re pot them in something smaller and dries/draines faster? Most of them are looking okay- one is not. I'm thinking about moving them indoors where the temp is more constant.. These cuttings had roots already, but were going dormant.
rj
This message was edited Nov 11, 2005 8:19 PM
Hi Randy! Thank you for your interest!! I selected MicroMix via accident ( and HOT advertising, lol!) on a hydroponic site. I purchased it but I was 'afraid' to use it until Scoot mentioned and recommended it on a DG thread and provided a link to the very product/site where I ordered and I've been using it ever since (thanks, again, Scoot!). Rj, this mix is a nutriment, not a 'mix'. I use MicroMix frequently, but not each time I water, and not full strength, but lots. Scoot might tell us if I'm using it correctly, which certainly mat be the case but what I do here (Arky, zone 8a), wherein the product might work differently in the magic zone 5a where Scoot resides, or any other zone but my Arky zone. Since I am such a slave to advertising, I look forward to pros (especially) and cons regarding this product. How are your blooms rj, must about all blooms have been blown off here but LOTS of bud remain, maybe the best is yet to come, ya think??
Sherry, I just edited my post to tell you about the blooms. I was really pleased to see how large the blooms were.. They are very billowy. I will take a pict tomorrow.
I'm a bit frustrated with cuttings...the ones I really want to grow, seem to be struggling. Now if I were to trim my brugs I have now, and throw them in the compost- They'll grow...hmm..mabe I should dig in the compost and put my cuttings in that. I have 2 types growing in my compost bin. I think my learning curve is - not using lava sand with my newly planted cuttings. I think Kell hit it right on about using fast draining soil in the fall.
Rj, without getting off on soil, I'm going to move on to the ONLY thing I know anything about, over wintering, in my zone 8a. If I was you, I'd start a test 'pile' and leave cuttings in all sorts of 'areas' for the winter, in your hot zone 9a, Houston. I would leave minor (not special single) cuttings, green, woody and in-between, in any number of areas, pots, soil, covered, GH, inside, garage, basement (is there a single basement in Houston and, or TX), in the house, wherever, and see what happens. Of course, conditions will differ from year to year, but find out what happens this winter and go from there. I will NEVER dig up a brug and put it into a pot, in my zone 8a of Arky, unless I find that there is a trend that suggests that it is likely that ALL will be frozen, if they are not dug up and wintered inside with heat. If there is any way I can avoid giant pots and digging up brugs and digging holes to put them in, in the spring, I will do anything to avoid that because I do all the digging here. Thanks so much for you post Rj!!
rj, Almost all of those plants I sent to you can be cut for trials. They were large and tall so you can make logs or anything out of them.. I had them in dormancy for almost 2 months so you can get them going.
Oh, wow, Jnette, is Rj lucky or what??!! Monika posted (unless I read incorrectly and that is entirely, 100% possible) that brugs need two months dormancy each year, and your plants are right on times I'm concerned about cuttings and rootings, I'm not sure what dormancy means, when does dormancy time begin/end? Anyone care to explain the dormancy period?? Like, I cut off a limb - next day, I put it in a bubbler with H202, next day there are nubbies with roots, the next day or two or week, it's put in soil, within the week there are new leaves. Is there dormancy there? When does dormancy begin, end?? Now, 'without blooms', I totally understand, whew!!!
~Interjecting a comment here~
I am learning a heck of a lot by reading these discussions. It's like eavesdropping on a brainstorming session at the office.
Thanks, guys!
Barb
U R cute Barb!! Keep it up. We might all learn something, lol! Thanks! I'm a newbie, I've been subscribed to Dave's since Nov 2003, but 2004 was my first brug growing season. If you click on the Author names in the threads, you will see how long members have been subscribed to DG - you, July 2004, me Nov 2003...only 8 months difference...
Sherry, Dormancy, my interpretation is that most plants will know when they want to sleep and lose their leaves or sometthing. That is the ideal. However, when people like myself, in zone 5 grow Brugs, they would freeze before they lose their leaves.
Therefore, when I put them in dormancy, I checked with the USDA as to the first frost date in my area. Then, so my plants would not freeze, I took them in, stripped them of their leaves, and put them in the dark. (dormancy)
Now, I sent them to rj in Houston, which is a totally different climate. They now can come out of dormancy and grow. They may have grown some weak growth while I had them in the dark, and I would strip that off if I were rj.
This is my first year growing brugs and I could be totally wrong. If so, I am sure there will be a whole slough of people telling me so..
My Dad's x candida pink tree that is planted in the ground here in FL is almost 8 years old. It pretty much raised itself just as if it was a wild brug. Stressed beyond belief at times (lack of food and water) but I've never seen a more beautiful real tree form than his. If brugs require complete dormancy for good health then somebody forgot to tell this tree.
Brugs are semi-dormant but not totally dormant in their natural habitat. As long as brugs do not have to deal with a cold wet environment they can and do continue to grow and flower for the entire winter without ill affects. I learned that early on from having a heated greenhouse in east TN.
The closest thing I've personally witnessed as far as semi-dormancy for brugs in my part of FL is fewer leaves, fewer flowers that can look dorky sometimes and a more sluggish growth rate. This begins in the heat of late summer. I believe the position of the sun has alot to do with a brugs natural semidormancy and that is something we humans have no control over. When the sun position is right they wake up from the sluggishness.
Just my own observations ... v
Brigitte,
Brugs that have alot of suaveolens in the blood are the easiest to root in water. Suaveolens prefers heat. Easiest of all brugs to grow.
Brugs that have alot of aurea in the blood are the most temperamental and the least likely to root in water. Soil rooting should be the number one choice every time in my opinion because you will for sure lose them if you try to root in water. An example is B. aurea 'Rothkirch'. It is not easy to root in soil. I've never heard a water rooting success story. How often do you see Rothkirch offered anywhere even on ebay? Now you know why. It's a miracle just to root a cutting in soil! lol!
When aurea is crossed with another species the seedling is no longer a pure aurea. The further away the bloodline is from pure aurea the easier it is to root ... water or soil.
Just my thoughts ... v
Wow, a large scale bubbler operation, I hope you have photos, Scoot. Monitoring cuttings, or lack of monitoring is a big thing where I live - when the weather is 'right', I can leave a nice rooting and return in a matter of hours to find the cutting turning to mush. Then, of course, when I broke my ankle, I didn't even look at my bubblers for at least two weeks, and had they not been in bubblers, all would have been lost. Heat + Humidity = Mush in SE Arky, zone 8a
You wrote: 'the biggest drawback is one rotting cutting in a bubbler...containing many cuttings'..., does this mean that every single cutting you start and root the old way is in a container of it's own?? If that is correct, you got me there. My rootings are separated into individual containers, so that if there is 'contamination with bacteria produced by such putrid plant matter', such contamination/damage, will only effect the like brugs in that particular container. However, with one exception, I have never had putrid plant matter and that occurred when the bubbler stone was knocked out by my cat, and the container was no longer a bubbler, but a regular, old fashioned water rooting and it was yucky, green slime covering the roots, which were brown. I soaked them in H202, sent them home with an employe, he planted them and they bloomed before some of mine. Now, I have had putrid plant matter when I tried rooting the old fashioned way because a cutting will turn to mush in my zone at the drop of a hat, I've even tried changing the water twice a day, no luck.
Using the 'old tried & true way', would be wonderful, if it worked for me, and I would 'have gotten satisfaction from monitoring their progress daily', IF it worked here, it would be great, but I'm not willing to lose special cuttings, when I've proven I can grow them in bubblers, why in the world would I do that? You posted: It is the safest way to assure my hybrids succeed.>>> I have no doubt that you are correct, with regard to your zone, but not mine. Nothing I've read/seen has inspired me to return to rooting the old way, when I've lost just about every one I've ever tried. Why would I go back, the bubbler has worked every time.
You wrote 'h2o2 I have no reason to add that extra oxygen molucule with my methods. Fresh water has plenty of it.' We have good water here, but it's not the water that's the problem, as I've said, it's the hot/humid temps here that create the problem with rooting the old way. As for H202, I didn't use it last winter, until down the line, my brugs were rooted with nothing artificial, only the bubbler stones to keep the water moving, the moving water alone kept my cuttings from turning to mush.
'Air stones and h2o2 are only tactics to keep OLD water alive.' HOT DOGGIES!! YEAH, this is the entire point!!!!!!!!! Bubbler stones keep old water alive, just like fish tanks and fountains. That is not a bad thing - it is the purpose of the bubbler. I hope all you guys are having the absolutely beautiful weather we are enjoying here today, it is just wonderful...Happy Saturday!!
Is not old water re-oxygenized, new water?
Pay her no mind Sherry, the first time I ever heard from scoot was after someone asked ME to tell them how to root these beauties below. I did and scoot had to jump in there and tell them to just put the coleus in water and CHANGE daily. I travel for weeks at a time, and putting coleus cuttings in rooting hormone and fresh potting soil is the only option I had. (At this writing I have been away from my babies since Oct 15.)
I will be doing the bubbler boogie when I get back to Florida with some new Brug cuttings. My coleus will be rooted by the method I mentioned above and I DO have a yard full of COLOR to show for my efforts.
Sometimes people feel that their way is the only way. I have found there are several ways to do many things. When someone ask me, I try to offer my best experience.
I try not to put down everything anyone else says unlike scoot.
Sidney
Okay, well it's going to be logs then - I will try a few different things. I think I will put them in much smaller pots. I think I have too much soil around them and they are not drying out, or I'm watering them too much. Unfortuneatly my cutting experience is trimming the brug branches and sticking them in my "stick bucket" - a pot I have to propagate cuttings of whatever in the yard. OF course they grow like weeds, it's only when I really want it to grow that they get all finicky.
I posted some pics on the other thread of the white trumpets. They turned out to be rather larger than what I've been use too.
Sidney, you are so funny. Isn't it strange that that is the first time I ever heard from Bug too was when I was being so RUDE. LOL. That is her Buzz word for me. LOLagain.
Jeanette
rj, if your temps are that high it must be the Lava Sand dthat is keeping the plants so wet????
Also Sidney, your Coleus are beautiful. Very flashy. Jeanette
WOW, Sidney, the Coleus are really pretty, like Jnette said, flashy and i LUV flashy!!
We are expecting wind and rain tonight, my garden and I will be very happy if it rains...we need it badly...
LOL There are exceptions to every rule .... thank goodness! No one told me that Rothkirch were hard to root, or that they wouldn't root in a bubbler, so that's just what I did. LOL Guess fate is was kind to this newbie because all 4 of my Rothkirch cuttings rooted in the bubbler with just a couple drops of H202. Each cutting gets an individual container and air stone to root in. Rothkirch did take longer than a lot of other cuttings did, but they're all rooted and growing. I've given 2 of them away and kept two for myself. They may like to root better in soil but I was lucky. My biggest problems with rooted cuttings is my tendency to overwater once they're planted. Someday I'll find a 12 step program for overwaterers. LOL
Mary
Really Mary. That is the trick. I can root anything just about but this last month or so it is after I root it that it rots. And you know it is because I am either too heavy handed with the water or I am misreading my soil and think it is so dry and it is not. But I really think that it is dry when I am watering for i doit by lifting now which is good but I think my soil is holding too much water at first and then they are rotting!
The only time I find brugs to be fussy is just as they are rooting or just after they root. I tell you it is a blow to my ego to suddenly be losing them. I thought I was all that and now to find out I am not even a bit of that. LOL
Mary, I have rooted lots of RK. I am trying to root some right now. Usually they want to be rooted in the spring, so I will see if I have my old green touch back.
Lots of good information here which I am grateful for. Last year when I rec'd my first cuttings, they already had little nubbies. So when I placed them in water and they rooted so fast, I thought I was hot stuff. Since then, any cuttings I have received without the little nubbies, I killed 'em off before they stood a chance. That happened with and without h2o2. I haven't tried with my bubbler yet, although I have been having fun with other plant cuttings with the bubbler.
I guess all zones (and even homes which are like micro-climates) are different and you just have to find out what works best for you. I'm glad I'm not the only one that turns cuttings to mush - even in clean water.
You are suppose to continue using the peroxide to water with after you plant them in soil. By using peroxide you are giving them oxygen. If they are rotting in the soil you are overwatering them. Water with peroxide.
Jeanette
I think it's great that Rothkirch roots so easily for some! This is one of the most valuable brugs we can have in the USA. Happy dance for everyone that's been successful! :) You could make a killing on ebay!
But for the majority Rothkirch is not easy to root. Rothkirch is highly susceptible to rot after it is rooted. For those that don't use a bubbler this is a good time of year if you are in south FL to soil root Rothkirch. It prefers cooler weather to root here and patience. Keep'em on the dry side. This is working for me .... so far. I'm sure Spring is a great time to root too but in my part of the world that is our rainy season. = rot!
Vee, how does Rothkirch do in your heat and what about bugs?? From the beginning I've wanted one but did not pursue it thinking that it wouldn't like my hot/humid digs and the bugs...
Sherry in our environment Rothkirch rebels in high heat and humidity. Has to have shade cloth or tree shade, rarely flowers, grows slowly, cuttings rot and refuse to root. It is susceptible to the leaf curling mites and aphids in the rainy season. It's everything you always dreaded in a brug short of a virus! lol!
October is pretty much the beginning of our dry season and of course cooler weather. Less than 80 degree days, average humidity and not too much water. Rothkirch comes alive at this time of year and gets better and better until about mid June. It is still difficult to root cuttings and it takes patience but at least it is not impossible like it is in the summer heat.
This is the experience of 3 of us z9b-10a Rothkirch growers within 50 miles of each other. Of the 3 I am the least experienced at growing and rooting beautiful Rothkirch but I'm getting there.
Thanks, Vee, not an easy process but some difficult ones seem to be worth it, I admire you for sticking with it.
What about Rothkirch seeds? I have Vixen X Rothkirch seeds. How do you think they will do?
Jeanette
Jeanette, I've been told that I can use the peroxide in potted up plants but not to use it on in ground plants because it's possible that it might upset the ph. (Mind you the person that told me that is the county agent that incorrectly identified the thrips I had, said they were Rove Beetles) I don't have a clue if that is correct, but I had a special brug that I thought had been over watered, and I didn't use it, lost the plant, then could have kicked myself......do you know if peroxide might upset the ph and, if so, would occasional use okay, rather than every time it's watered??? Watering with peroxide really helped the one potted 2nd season seedling I have, turned her life around and she is nice and healthy now...
I don't see how occasional use of H2O2 could hurt anything!!!!
Maybe 55 gallon drum of some industrial strength would be bad, but a gallon or two of water with 1/2 cup HP added to each should be nothing to worry about.
My yard is pure sand, so I can't hardly drown anything in it.
Sidney