OK all of you experts on miniature avs. Help me please. I have recently purchased some beautiful miniature avs and I would love to keep them healthy and happy. I printed a sheet from the Pittsburgh AV Society that says miniatures tend to rot using wick watering. What is your experience with watering miniature av?
Second question. All of the mini avs I recently purchased have leaves that are growing upward with long stems. There are several rows of leaves. Do minis grow differently than standards? Should I remove leaves and create a round-evenly distributed leaf base for the plants?
Thanks for your help.
Nanna
Miniature av questions
I've been just bottom watering most of my minis (once a week), and they seem to be fine with that. I'll LYK what happens when I put some into self watering pots!
I think the AVs we got are growing like that mostly because there were lots of them jammed into the trays under the lights at Violet Gallery. See if they don't flatten out on their own once they get more light...
We'll see what Dana & MsC et al. have to say!
Both are great questions!
I have mini's and others on all types of watering sysytems. I've had a lot of trouble trying the bottom watering method and lost many Av's. I have been switching over my whole collection gradually to wick watering or self watering pots.It has saved many AV's here,of all sizes. The other thing that is important to note when wick watering is to be sure to lighten up that soil when wick watering, too.That maybe the cause of the rotting with mini's that the article noted.
My first minis came with self watering pots and seem to do much better with them than any other method I've tried them on. They seem like they grow at a steady rate and flower better for me,too. Especially since I read that they should be feed a 1/8th dilution of food instead of the standard 1/4 strength food given to standards.
One other thing that is important that is noted on the Violet Barn site as well as many others is that they apparently need repotting more often than standards.
A lot of my Av's I've purchased seem to have the same leaf structure and I agree with CritterO that it has more to do with the way they are grown by the merchant tathn the natural growth habit of the plant. I have seen a big improvement in them as far as form after a few weeks of gradually increasing the amount of light they get .
So I have a few questions for the group... what fertilizer do you use??? Do you use the same fertilizer for all your violets or do you use different ones per size & type ???
MsC
Thanks MsC. You always come through. I will not fret about wicking and will make sure they get enough light. Did you get my Dmail about fooling your nonblooming plants?
About Fertilizer:
I have had wonderful response using 10-10-10 with all my avs. I have started using less than the instructions suggest. Instead of 10 drops per quart I use 25 drops per gallon. There is no built up of salts and all are blooming like crazy.
Just this week I switched to a 8-15-9 for the winter, hoping the blooms would continue. I was going to use it only on the variegated avs but decided to try the switch on all. I read an article that said a change every little while is good. The 10-10-10 encourages plant growth and the 8-15-9 encourages blooms. I thought I might try alternating them. I will try to find the article again. It was in AVSA magazine this year. Again, with the 8-15-9, it was suggested to use 7 drops per quart. I used 15 per gallon. I know that variegates are supposed to keep their variegations best on a low N solution. I also read that one of the biggest problems in growing avs is over fertilizing them.
That is the sum total of my vast experience with fertilizer and avs. Please, please, correct any misinformation and give advise.
The 10-10-10 I use is Miracle Grow for AVs. The 8-15-9 is Schultz
I wonder if I should dilute even more for the minis?
Nanna
PS Thought you might like to see Ma's Debutante's progress. I received her in August as a little 4 leaf plant from Rob's. She is sitting on a 17 inch doilie.
This message was edited Nov 1, 2005 6:49 AM
Ms C. What size pots do you put your micro minis in? The crowns of the White noid you sent are rooting nicely and I would like to put them in their own pots.
Nanna
Nanna,
Thank you for your kind words. I try to share what I've learned because it's so much fun to compare growing styles.I'm no expert that's for sure but I hope to be someday...lol
The one thing I've seen with my own collection of AV's is no matter what fertilizer I use, they grow fine but as soon as I add just a small 1/2 or less of Epson salt to my fertilizer mix, that is when I see an improvement of blooms. My guess is that it has something to do with the soil & or water combination I have here. I've also experimented with misting them with my regular fertilizer in a week solution of warm water. I make sure they are not in sun light or too close to the grow lights and that makes a difference,too.
I grow most of my minis in 2inch or smaller plastic pots on wicks.I have just switched a few mini's over to the clay pots with wicks and will let you know how they do for me.
One other thing I have used that has made a huge difference for the ones that are blooming besides light is humidity. I have about 50 percent or more humidity all the time here but the mini's seem to bloom better with added humidity. To help this I placed them on plastic 8-10 saucers or even the window box trays filled with small gravel,then filled them with water just to the top of the gravel.The gravel also keeps my clumsy hands from knocking them over too.:) Just call me grace..lol
You ask about the Non blooming Rambling Angel that was going wild with growth but no blooms???
YES, I'm glad to report I did try your sneak method ....
I dropped her right on her head (accident from clumsiness)... I broke off a piece hanging over the edge when I did this and as you thought she IS setting buds at this very moment:) Guess you have to abuse them a lil to show them who's the boss...LOL...
I'll add a pic of her when they finally open.
Thanks for the tip!!!
Ma's Debutante's is beautiful! Now that's the way to grow them!!!
MsC
This message was edited Nov 1, 2005 1:21 PM
You're wonderful!! I'll call you Miss Grace. I did the same thing with Mississippi. Just as she was at the peak with leaf shape and loads of buds set, I dropped her face down. Broke all the outer leaves and scared most of the remaining leaves. The buds were fine. She is now blooming and trying to recover her beautiful shape.
Glad to hear the shake-up helped.
Humidity is one thing I have not thought about. With winter coming and dry air I will give it a try. Thanks, again.
Nanna
My spelling is horrible.
This message was edited Nov 1, 2005 2:56 PM
I'm with you Nanna ,
I CAN spell (as very small sign of intelligence...lol)
BUT.....Wooh as me .....
I CAN NOT type...lol (my brains lack of co-ordination as noted from above)
I wanted to add to out dicussion that one of the things that mini's are prone to is the fertilizer salts build up becasue of such small pots. I lost a few suckers on trailers recently before I found the cause. Now I have decreased the solution of fertilizer, leached the pots AND added shredded spaghnum moss around the top as an added buffer.
Might help someone else who has a similar problem,
MSC
How does the moss help?
I've got to pot up all my new beauties, so I'm following this discussion avidly! :-)
Does the moss absorb the excess salts? Did I just read this in our thread or in an article I read today. Minis need repotting more frequently than standards. Something to do with root systems and small pots. That should help with the salt build up as well. I guess every 3 to 4 months instead of every 5 to 6 months for repotting? What do you all think?
Nanna
This message was edited Nov 1, 2005 6:29 PM
This message was edited Nov 1, 2005 6:30 PM
The moss helps for a short time until you can leach the pots by keeping the leaves away from the salts that eat away at the tender tissue.
You know how you get the salty granules or crud around the pot rim or base of the plant?? If you add the moss it helps to buffer it. It also helps to increase humidity, and it can help with the micro minis to keep from drying out so fast.Kinda like "mulch for munchkins"..:)
I use the s.moss for a lot of things . I root some leaves in a mix of it & perlite.
I have also started adding it under my trailers. If you do a crown cutting of a smaller plant like a micro you can root it in the s.moss inside of a domed cake lid and it's wonderful! Almost MsC proof...lol
That's what I did with the piece of Rambling Angel that I broke off.:)
I use a pair of sissors and chop it up finely, then just moisten with water and add to the top of the potting soil.
I've also used it to ward off crown rot on some because of my bad watering habits. It's a deterant but not a cure.:)
CritterO , Please share the info about crown cuttings on trailers you were telling me about. I think It's great info!
How's that for clarification??? I have a pic I can add later tonight.
MsC
This message was edited Nov 1, 2005 5:38 PM
I like growing Miniature Av's. Their so cute , most with lots of big double flowers. They don't take much space up so you can have more :))
Alison
The Miniature Story From African Violets and Gesneriad questions answered by 20 experts and edited by Helen Vau Pelt Wilson 1966
Small African Violets appeal to a great many people, especially those with limited space/ Therefore this book devoted a section to the miniature and semi-miniature types. Elizabeth Prescott has contributed most of this section from her experience with miniature violets, which she grows to proportional perfection.
Miniatures come from propagation of regular varieties, and some are the products of hybridizing. Saintpaulia shumensis and 'Shine Boy' are the parents of many miniatures.
A mature miniature plant (one with four or five rows of small leaves) that is 6 inches or less across in diameter is a true miniature plant. A mature plant that slips gracefully through a 6-inch embroidery hoop is considered to be a true miniature.
A mature plant more than 6 but no more than 8 inches in diameter (a plant over 8 inches in diameter is considered a standard and not in the miniature class) Back when this book was written in 1966 there were in the neighborhood of seventy true miniatures.
Now there are almost 800 mini registered in FC and 1332 semi-miniature registered and others that are not.
There are the same colors and forms found in standard violets as in miniature violets. There are tailored, ruffled, girl, and variegated miniatures and flowers in the same colors and shades as the standard varieties.
What do you consider the most outstanding miniatures?
'Wee Willie Winkie', double white with orchid edges, 'Star Daisy' (Lyndon Lyon), large cerise-pink star, E.P.
What are the most recent miniature African violets?
The two mentioned (oh no I had a whole bunch of Wee Willie Winkie sold & gave away) above and 'King Lear', single wine with white edges; 'Tiny Rose’ (oops sold and gave those away too), (Lyndon Lyon), double rosy-pink, 'Loverly' (Anna Lee Violetry) variegated foliage, two-tone purple white edge; 'Candy', double light blue, white edge. E.P.
Miniatures for Showing
Miniature African violets are classed separately in official shows. There is increasing interest in and demand for miniatures. They received many blue ribbons and even tricolors. Because they require so much less space than standard varieties, they are extremely popular.
Is it a good practice to disbud miniatures in preparing a plant for show? Yes, providing there has been experience with that variety and the cultural conditions are constant. E.P.
Rate of Growth and Bloom
It is the nature of Miniatures to grow slower than standard varieties. Also, environmental condition might be unfavorable.
Do miniatures bloom as profusely as the larger varieties?
Yes, but some flower more abundantly than others, just as with standard varieties. E.P.
I find that my miniatures sucker readily. Is this normal?
Yes. They must be watched carefully and the suckers removed as soon as they are identified as such. E.P.
Notes on Culture
Does the culture of miniatures differ from that of large saintpaulias?
It is much the same, except the miniatures must be watered more frequently because a small mature plant in a small pot uses its food and water faster. If fluorescent light is used it must be adjusted to the size of the plant. If miniatures are grown in conjunction with standard plants the miniatures must be raised up on as invert pot or jar to receive adequate light. Seven inches below two 40-watt tubes is ideal. E.P.
Do you find miniatures difficult to grow?
No. They require more patience when growers on the windowsills though, because unpredictable natural light makes them grow more slowly. E.P.
Why are the miniatures given favored spots at your windows?
Because they require more constant. E.P.
Are miniature violets too fragile to be washed?
No. They are no more fragile than any other African violet. They thrive on an occasional sprinkling with warm water. E.P.
How often do you feed miniatures?
I fertilize with every watering at the rate of 1/20 of the recommended application of fertilizer used. E.P.
Miniatures under Lights
What fluorescent light tubes should be used for miniatures?
I use either 4-8 foot fixtures with the following combinations of tubes for miniatures: one Gro-Lux plus one daylight or cool white; or one daylight plus one natural white; or two cool white. E.P.
Do you recommend windowsill or fluorescent light growing for miniatures?
Fluorescent light, provided the plants are elevated to the correct height of 7 inches from the light tubes. E.P.
Pot, Soil, and Fertilizer
Is it necessary to re-pot miniatures?
Yes. Approximately once a year I remove my miniatures from their pots and gently remove the soil with a pencil and by shaking. Then I trim the roots slightly with a sharp scissors and re-pot in the same size fresh pot using new potting mix. E.P.
What kind and size pots do you grow your miniatures in?
Two and 2 1/2 inch plastic pots. Clay pots may also be used but the rims must be covered with foil and much more watering is necessary. I find clay pots impractical for any small plant. E.P.
What soil mixture do you prefer for miniatures?
I use Bob Reed's (brightwaters, new York) mix: I quart pasteurized soil, 1 quart Michigan peat, 1 quart Black Magic Mix, 1 quart vermiculite, 3 tablespoon whiting. Moisten the mix with 15-30-15 fertilizer at the rate of 1 teaspoon to two quarts of water. Do not feed again until plant reaches flowering stage. E.P.
Notes on Leaf Propagation
What is the best method of propagating miniatures?
Remove a leaf from a middle row of the parent plant. Cut the bas f the stem with a razor blade, leaving about 1/2 inch of stem. Let the cut dry for twenty minutes, then dust with hormone powder if desired. (I have never done this have you?) Insert in damps rooting medium of one-half Black Magic mix and one half vermiculite. Put the stem in on a slant so the base is not set very deep in the mix, thus enabling the plantlets to reach the surface more rapidly. E.P.
How long does it take from leaf cutting to bloom?
About six months to one year, depending upon the variety and culture conditions. The most recent hybrids propagate more rapidly. E.P.
Do young or old leaves on miniatures propagate best, and what is the best time of the year to start cuttings?
Take leaves from approximately the fourth row from the center for propagation. Any time of the year is all right for starting leaves except the summer months. Spring is usually the best. E.P.
How long a stem should be left on a miniature leaf to start it, and how many plantlets grow from one leaf?
Cut leaves with a stem about 1/2 inch long. Any amount from one to twenty plantlets may be expected from each leaf cutting. E.P.
Care of Leaf Cuttings
Do you feed leaf cuttings?
Yes, after they have roots in rooting mix. I use a one-half strength solution of a 15-30-15 soluble fertilizer. E.P.
Should the tiny plants that occasionally form on the leaves in vermiculite be left on?
This is rare, but when it happens the plantlets may be carefully removed from the leaf and set in rooting mix to grow roots. E.P.
When do you separate plantlets from the parent leaf?
When the plantlet has a crown of four to six little leaves. Then I am certain it has roots and can be transplanted successfully. I mix the potting soil with equal amount of vermiculite for the first potting. I find the grow faster and better in the diluted mix. E.P.
Happy Miniature African violet growing
This message was edited Nov 1, 2005 8:24 PM
Oh My Gosh!!! What a treasure from V_T. Thanks you. You answered all my questions and some things I had never thought of.
You're wonderful
Nanna
WOW -- Thank you! -- That is a treasure trove of information on minis! I'm taking notes!! :-)
Allison,
Thank you for adding such detailed information. I've copied & printed it to add to my AV information collection.
MsC
Thank you and your welcome. I enjoy growing Miniatures. Allison
V-T....wow..you along with the others already here are providing an awesome amount of information.
Thanks to each and everyone of you. :) Deb