pecan trees

I have recently discovered that I have several native pecan trees. I have lived on this property 7 years and haven't had enough pecans fall to really notice what kind of trees they were. The largest tree was by a lot we rented out for a mobile home. These renters moved out last year. Squirrels have been kind enough to bury the pecan nuts which grew into trees, one of two of the small trees have pecans on them. The trees are spread out over a large area .. and I am wondering if this is what has kept them from pollinating.. I have been reading a lot about how these trees pollinate and it seems I almost need another type of pecan close by for the best pollination. After talking to a forester he suggested that because the trees I already have are large , I might try grafting some of the other varieties to limbs of already existing trees. He didn't think he could help me with the grafting process however.

Any others ideas? Anyone know where I could buy "scion"? The pecan trees I have must be very cold hardy, and I assume that anything grafted on would have to be as well?

Kathy,

Most trees must be within 500 feet to cross-pollinate although a pecan tree can self-pollinate and produce a small crop of pecans. When we lived in San Jose, our one pecan tree produced quite a number of pecans each year, but the only way we saw evidence of any nuts, was when seedlings started sprouting all over the yard from the nuts buried by the squirrels. Then we moved to our ranch here in central Texas. We have a seasonal creek that has water whenever it rains and the Colorado River forms one of our property lines so there is a lot of water around. Our water table averages about 40'. With all that water around, I assumed we had several hundred native pecan trees until I started looking at the leaf edges. Pecan tree leaflets have serrated edges. Ailanthus altissima leaflets have entire or smooth edges. Otherwise the two trees look very similar in their vegetative stage. A mature Ailanthus tree can get to the size of a 25 - 50 year old pecan tree. A good portion of our 'pecan' trees turned out to be Ailanthus that's why they weren't producing nuts.

You mentioned forester, was that someone from the Forestry Service, either state or national? I know that there are 2 kinds of grafted trees: one that produces the male catkins first and one that produces the female flowers first. To maximize nut production you must have at least one of each. I don't know if it matters with native trees especially the native trees in your area. The best place to get that answer would be you local Cooperative Extension Service agent. He would be able to tell you if you needed a specific kind of graft or be able to get you the information.

Here's the link to your county extension office there in Fayette.
http://extension.missouri.edu/howard/

I've also included a link to the DG PlantFiles for photos of Ailantus altissima
http://davesgarden.com/pf/go/1699/index.html

I know my trees aren't Ailantus altissima. I have seen a very few pecans forming on my trees. So I know that they are cross-pollinating a bit. I had read from the Clemson Extension Service

http://hgic.clemson.edu/factsheets/HGIC1356.htm

The paragraph about flowering and fruiting habit was what made me think I needed another type of tree... So I was just wondering if anyone knew what type of trees the native ones I have are.?.. Do I have the ones that produces the male catkins first or female catkins?

I hadn't found the fact that they need to be within 500 feet. It makes me realize I need quite a few more trees for best pollination...

The forester I talked to works for the NRCS.

Have you seen the size of your pecan nuts? Our local Cooperative Extension County agent has a large chart on the wall with a sample of nuts of each of the grafted varieties recommended for Texas and about 20 samples of native tree nuts. Some of the native pecan nuts rival the grafted size. Ours on the other hand are not worth grafting. The nut size on our trees averages 3/4". I've included a photo of one of our trees to indicate the size of most of our pecan trees. The tree is between 60' and 80' tall. The crumbling tree house is between 25' to 30' above the ground. Grafting the trees would be very expensive since the lowest branch is so high. Grafting would not change the size of the nut produced. As an alternative, I'm trying to get my husband to buy a few of the grafted ones. A local commercial orchard is selling their grafted trees before the bulldozers show up to turn the orchard into a shopping center.

The only way to tell whether your trees produce catkins or flowers first is to wait until spring and compare what your trees produce to the photos provided by this Clemson University website.

http://www.forestryimages.org/browse/subimages.cfm?SUB=3262

Thanks for that wonderful site!.. It will take me a while to study all the images. I wouldn't know a female part of this flower from the male part... I have everything to learn.

I know you are right about the grafting on the big tree.. I think maybe the smaller trees are still an ok size to do some grafting to. The smaller ones are 16-20 feet tall..

My thoughts on the grafting would be for better cross-pollination not necessarily for the nuts. and I think it's going to be hard to find someone to help me out.

I think the nuts are the smaller ones.

Your trees are magnificent! I live in a much colder climate than you and I am wondering how the trees differ from here to where you live...

You would need grafts from hardy pecan trees. Find a nursery that sells different varieties of hardy pecans and ask if you can have some scion wood when they prune their trees. Or maybe the forestry agent can help you obtain some scion wood. I've enclosed a link to grafting directions.

http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/ho/ho39/ho39.htm

Hi yall, you from Texas Kathy Jo? As usual, I am a day late and a dollar short, or two years late for this thread. Texas Pecan Nursery sales grafts from Feb - April. Their number is 903-849-6203. They are very helpful on the phone. Their web-site says wholesale to the trade only, but they also sale to individuals with a $50.00 minumum. Their grafts are .75 each or less and their bareroot pecan trees are really cheap too at 4'-5' for $8.50. Their catalog has fruit trees (not on their web-site) also at good prices. They can tell you what trees or grafts will do well in your zone. Hope this helps, Mike http://www.texaspecannursery.com/

excelrealty,
I have found out quite a bit about my pecans trees and grafting since my 2005 post. I have joined the Missouri Nut Growers Association and will go to a day long grafting seminar in the Spring.. I am still as excited as ever to learn more about grafting, increase my nut production with better pollination and cultivars..

I live in Missouri.. The pecans on my native trees here are very small.

Never too late to resurrect an interesting thread

I just planted a 45-Gallon Choctaw, two 45-Gallon Desirable, and two 15-Gallon Mohawk. If they live, I would like to try grafting a couple other varieties on them. Add more info as you get it, such as if you do graft. Thanks, Mike

I will mostly work with bark grafting in the Spring. Have you tried that? The trees that I am going to graft are 15-20 feet tall. Before I moved to this farm the previous owners must have not know what was trying to grow, so they brushhogged them down. They grew again, with two to three trunks. What I have heard referred to second generation trees.

But, They didn't just cut down pecan trees this way they cut down thorn trees this way.. The result for the thorn trees was a huge clumps of the meanest thorn trees you have ever seen.. That may be a whole other discussion.

My new weapon against the thorn trees is a skid loader. I want to buy a tree sheer to fit on the front, but that may have to wait for a year or two.. With this skid loader I am able to clear away the trash trees and release the small walnuts and pecan trees. Hoping for faster and healthier growth.

I made a few pitiful attempts at grafting last year that didn't work.. I will try till I get it right. The possibilites seem endless. Since that first thread , I also realized that I had a few more trees than I knew. I also raise cattle , so my grafting will have to be 6-7 feet up.. and I am a tiny bit scared of heights :)

A pecan expert at the University of Missouri sent me video clip to watch on bark grafting. I will watch it several times. I had ordered a grafting knife last year, but it didn't come until well after grafting season.

excelrealty, Have you done any grafting?

Hi Kathyjo, no grafting at all. I would like to try it this spring though. My mom and stepdad have very old pecan trees with large pecans in Waco. We do not know what kinds they have, but I would like to try a few cuttings from them and some from Texas Pecan Nursery. Take care, Mike

Mike, of the three varieties you mentioned only Choctaw is recommened for your area. Here's an A & M link on pecans recommened for the state:
http://aggie-horticulture.tamu.edu/extension/homefruit/pecan/pecan.html
The others will live, but may not perform at their best. You may want to use it as a guide when you graft other varieties on them.
Veronica

Thanks for the link Bettydee. I appeat to be a little more than 20 miles outside of the nearest reccommended area for desirable, hopefully it will work. I have seen a tree suppossedly about a 10 year old Mohawk that really looked well with good sized nuts on it at Bowmans nursery, which from looking at there trees for sale is a little scary as they could have been mistaken about what kind of tree that one was. That is about 10 miles from here, which is why I wanted one of those. I am quite a ways east of where that is reccommended. At least my Choctaw should do well if something can at least live to pollinate it lol. Thanks again,
Mike

Mike,
A lot of things could affect the range something is recommended to grow in. Placement on your property, protection from wind and elements, altitude, etc. From what I have learned, tis better to try it anyway. Hopefully you do try and are succussful!
~ Suzi :)

Thanks Suzi. It looks like one of the Mohawks has died or is dying. The others look okay though.

Mike,
Great news - the rest are doing okay! For 20 miles from nearest place recommended, I would heartily say, plant it!! Nothing ventured, nothing gained.

My uncle had a mimosa growing in his yard for many years from seed he brought home from TX. For all I know, it might even still be there, even though he's not. I'll look next time I go. No, it isn't recommended for zone 5, close to Cleveland. If he had put it so that the barn or house blocked the N/E winds, it would have gotten much larger. But, he had it out in the center of his side yard, where it was subject to the winds and snow, but he could easily see it and remember.

I had my flying dragon trifoliates planted out front for well over a year, when someone told me to dig them up quick, they wouldn't last the winter. They already had at that point, and they are still there. The house blocks the north winds, although there are some easterly winds that do hit them. Our Noreasters can be pretty bad. I know they probably won't get as large as should, but, I have something I truly wanted, that isn't in any other yard down the road. Well, ok, I truly wanted a pink lemonade tree, but cannot carry pots in and out.

I found a great book on palm trees for the north... too bad I don't remember the title and couldn't find it in library listing again, I know, I tried!! But, it was the most encouraging book I ever read! Had LOTS of plants further north than anyone said to grow them. They were successfully growing and producing too.

Eventually, I would like to grow some southern style plants on the east side of my house. They'll have to be in pots as I plan to get some work done in the back and will need to get through. Already bought the magnolia. Sure glad I have a dolly to move the huge heavy planters!!

Now, if I just had a privacy fence!!! Could start setting up my own oasis, my own garden of eden, so to speak. Best of luck!! ~ Suzi :)

You must have a green thumb keeping them alive that far out of zone. What is snow?(lol) Been about a hundred most of the month with no relief in sight.

I really don't think it is any green thumb or good luck. It isn't TOO far out of zone, and the north wind is blocked by house... Besides, when I read up on them, I thought they were the most hardy citrus and should survive here w/o problems. The point is, 20 miles out of zone, go for it, without thinking twice!! Just choose it's planting space well.

If they decide to croak one day, I had several yrs of pleasure with them. Think I planted them in 2003, the June after I bought this house. They go really nicely with my rose bushes out front, prickly front yard, LOL My niece & nephews come, they play out BACK!! My DD is used to it. Only front yard activity is sidewalk chalk on the driveway!

It has been pretty warm here too, up till this week. Relief is nice! I remember living in TX. I remember the count every day, xx days not under 100! Doubt I could handle it now though! Phew!! But, every house there has to have AC. I don't have AC now, just portable window units. One day...

~ Suzi :)