I have admired brugs for several years in catalogs, but never pursued until this year. I ordered seeds thinking to save some pennies but didn't research adequately. Anyway, out of 12 seeds, one germinated fast enough (had no idea how long they could take so gave up on the others) that i have it in a six inch pot. It is only about 12 inches tall and has been for a while, but doesn't really look like it should need a bigger pot. Do these need lots of root room? I had heard they grow fast, but that doesn't seem to be happening. As you can tell, I am very new at this - maybe too new for this forum :-) Advice please!
when do i repot small brug
Depending on what type of brug you have, it may take a little longer than you thought. I moved in May and took a 24" rooted brug and planted it that is now 6' tall! Another that was about 18" has yet to bloom, but is about 4' tall. I find the Charles Grimaldi really takes off. Don't worry about the pot.........12" is fine. Let it keep going this year. What zone are you in? I'm in Zone 8a/b and I give it plenty of sun (probably wouldn't hurt to back off afternoon sun since it's so young) and water about every other day. Fertilize it and maybe keep it in the pot through the winter since it's already September. Keep it in a sunny window and plant it next March (depending on your zone) then watch out! About a month ago I acquired some new unusual brugs and they really haven't done too much so I will do the same as I'm suggesting. Remember......they don't even think about blooming until they form the "y". That is, they may start as one stalk then keep growing and form a "y". Once the "y" in the stalk is formed, they'll think about blooming. Keep checking this forum and you'll get lots of tips. By the way, from now on there's is no need to order seeds once your brug gets a little larger.....you'll be able to take cuttings next summer and start a whole family of baby brugs from the same type you have!
Thanks so much. i have no idea what I have because it was "assorted" seeds. I am in zone 7 a or b depending on who you ask - Dallas/Fort Worth area. I look at everyone's gorgeous pictures of their brugs, then look at mine, and try to tell my poor little guy that it will be ok. Have been watching the forum for a while and am a little overwhelmed about special potting mediums, etc. I had noticed everyone worrying about bugs so found a large hanging basket and set the pot in it hanging from a tree. It gets morning sun, but is protected in the afternoon. Should I move it? LOL Dumb question - do they form a Y by themselves.
I went Brug crazy this year, too. You didn't mention what kind of seeds you bought. I made the mistake of buying B. sanguinea. Bought 5 seeds and all germinated. I got them up to 12 inches high and in 8" pots before the heat struck in mid May. This much I've learned: B. sanguinea doesn't thrive in heat. I lost 2 overnight. A third one took its time in dying. My last 2 are skinny stems with some leaves at the top, but they are still alive. I hope to keep them alive long enough for the temperature to cool down to their liking.
The first thing I did after I bought my Brugmansia seeds was to get a copy of both Monika Gottscchalk's Engelstrompeten (with English translatiion) and Preissel's Brugmansia and Datura: Angel's Trumpets and Thorn Apples. They are loaded with very useful informatiion. I bought my books from Amazon.com, but I wouldn't suggest buying Monika's book from them. Theirs doesn't come with the English translation and I had a devil of a time getting the translation.
Most Brugmansias need lots of water, but they drown if overwatered or overpotted. I would say don't overpot. Gently knock the rootball out of the pot and see if the roots are starting to grow around in a circle between the pot and the soil. Go to the next sized pot if they are. You could go to a bigger pot just be careful with your watering. They do get extensive root systems. Both books show hugh plants in pots that look like they are incapable of supporting the plant. I have a number of plants that should have gone into bigger pots, but the roots have grown into the ground below the pot and I'm afraid of what breaking those roots would mean. I plan to break the roots to take the pots in the greenhouse to overwinter and will repot next spring. There are people on this forum who are very knowledgeable and who willingly share their advice. Don't worry, just plunge in. Welcome!
Veronica
OW! bad timing!
But you are down in Texas so maybe this can happen.
Baby them. And When the frost is over bring them outside gradually. For a few hours at a time and then bring them back inside. You have to baby them - they are worth it.
K
Karrie,
I don't understand. What is bad timing? Do you mean my suggestion to go to the next size pot? We still have almost 2 months of growing season depending on where in Texas we live. Shouldn't that be sufficient time for the roots to fill the pot?
stownes,
I have one seedling that was a well-branched "tree" about 6 feet tall, blooming like crazy, in a 2 gallon pot all last summer. I think I have been repotting into larger pots when I can see roots on top of the soil like a mat when I water, or they are coming out of the bottom. Have you tried the fertilizer that others on this forum have recommended?
Oh, and, you are not too new for this forum! Everyone has to start somewhere and this is the right place!
Thanks for the advice. I will gently pull and check the roots, and just baby it along. I will also get copies of the books mentioned. Right now the little brug is sitting in its pot in am empty hanging basket, hanging from the sycamore tree, so it gets early morning sun but lots of light all day. So far the bugs haven't found it, so I'm feeling lucky there!
Hi stownes, I'm in Cedar Hill (for other folks, a few miles east of Mansfield, but up on the escarptment at near 700 ft. altitude. Mansfield is more down in the lower "plains").
I do believe our zone is 8, a or b, depending on any microclimate effect.
I'm new to Brugs also but have experience from many years ago to listening to what the plants want (and having a pretty good deal of non-working time to respond to them), along with much help from our wonderful comrads on this and a few other forums.
I've just recently potted up a Jamaica Yellow from cutting taken off a large Brug that Kris, from Rowlett, gave me in early August. I'm using a wick to regulate the moisture in the 6" pot it is in. When I potted it I used MG "moisture control" potting mix instead of my own mixture that everything is getting potted in for past couple of weeks. It seemed to me that the soil was staying too moist (how outrageous!!! one would think, with our drought, searing sun conditions we've had especially bad this summer, but true none the less.)
In the "container forum" on another board (email me if you need the link geekgranny@mac.com ) people are using wicks coming out of bottom hole(s) of containers to regulate the moisture in containers of all sizes. Most people and I are using strips of rayon "wonder cloth" poked into pot holes and hanging out and down from pot. This helps syphon off excess moisture from especially the lower portion of the container and cuts down on rotting. I've very recently started potting up in "faster soil", that I mix up, that drains faster but needs more frequent watering (and attention) and plants seem to be responding well. I have had some problems with only a few begonias and impatiens, in plastic or foam pots and MG moisture control soil, that seem to rot even sitting beside other begonias and impatiens in very similiar conditions, pots, and soil. (Most of my 100 or so containers are on a drip system that I've just set up this summer. It does take time to get all the adjusting done (drip rate) for each individual container so might be next year before everyone is completly happy.
When I poked the wicks into the Brug cutting's pot the wick immediatly became wet.
Might want to try this with your little Brug. I don't see any way it would hurt the baby.
geekgranny
geekgranny,
I'll give it a try. I sew a lot, and have almost any kind of fabric, but what do you mean by "wonder cloth". Might help my corkscrew vine that is now naked except for flowers, poor thing.
And you are absolutely right about our zone being 8 - typo :-)
This message was edited Sep 12, 2005 1:21 PM
Hi stownes, Wasn't yesterday's clouds and sprinkle of rain so refereshing? This a.m. seemed to be one of the brightest, clearest days all summer too. Love the fall. My favorite time of year especially the long shadows and some cooling off BUT not too crazy about having to even think about moving all the tropicals into the greenhouse. (This year I'm going to hire a couple of guys to do it for me. Just about killed me this spring especially moving the very large Hibiscuses and didn't get them all moved untill way into June when temps were reaching the 120's during the day!!! BTW was out of town part of late May and early June)
Rayon Wonder Cloth (not a weave or knit but pressed together sort of like felt): I think people use just about anything for the wicks but two attributes are especially important. 1) Super absorbancy and 2) resistence to rot.
I purchase the Wonder Cloth (or whatever name they are called...we call then "Yellow Thangs", even if they are orange, blue, or pink.) in bulk every few years for many uses like cleaning, soaking up spills and messes, especially from my herd of GIANT housedoggies, and other uses. I've even used them when the house or garage floods until I can get out big industrial wet vac. They are great for throwing over the dogs when they come in from the rain as they start syphoning off the water on contact. Every time I have to reorder them, every few years, I have to spend some time looking for them as I never remember where I have purchased them in the past.
At any rate, the super absorbant wring mops that are usually a yellow color are made of the very same fabric. One brand is Smart Mop ("as seen on tv" but I'm sure I picked up the replacment mop part at a grocery or box store around here.).
I have used the "yellow thangs" for many years, since the mid 80's and even though I've started using the new "micro fiber" cloths a great deal nothing can replace the "yellow thangs" for certain jobs. They can be washed with bleach and even stored damp in baggies for long periods without mildewing or breaking down; can't use chlorine bleach on the microfiber cloths (but can use non chlorine bleach or a good soaking in OxiClean. *********Although you can use a dryer for both NO FABRIC SOFTENER.
When they get real old they start breaking down. I've thrown them into the compost pile after tearing in strips, but they do take a little longer to break down than other things.
If you can't locate the cloths or or mop you can send me a SASE and I can send you one. Just let me know on this thread that you will be sending me an email to get my address so I'll know to check my mail. I'm not sure if I ever listed my address in the members area. I do need to check that out don't I.
geekgranny (Alice)
Alice,
I think I know what stuff you're talking about now. I will run by wally world to see if they have any of the mopheads - pieces would already be cut that way :-) If I can't find them, will let you know. I'd like to find the cloths too - for my granddogs, one giant and one just large. What kind are yours? Thanks so much.
Sharon
Alice,
How much of the strip of Wonder Cloth has to be in a pot? My Brugs are already in pots. If I wedge in a strip through the bottom of the hole, would that work? What I really need to know is how to keep them hydrated. Things aren't too bad now, but in June and most of July all of them drooped even though I watered everyday.
Veronica
Veronica, I sure hope others will offer suggestions for hydration. I've only had Brugs for a couple of months now but started with several mature plants. Mine are in pretty large plastic pots and double potted, i.e., pot set down into empty, next size up pot. I'm reasonably sure that this offers some protection from heat for roots. Also they are along the edge of shade from large trees so they are getting light shade untill about 10:00 a.m. and then again starting early, mid afternoon. Since they are in containers I can move them around to adjust amount of sun and shade. It seems that they are doing very well with a good watering every 24 hours and occasionally stretched out to 30 hours. I have about 3/4 inch pine bark mulch mostly to help keep soil in place when watering but I'm sure that probably helps retain a bit of moisture too. BTW .. A couple are in Miracle Grow Moisture control soil; the other five are in a faster draining mix I made up, i.e., compost, pro mix bedding "soil", vermiculite and/or perolite, green sand. I have had no wilting or much drooping for the six or so weeks they've been here.
As for the "wicking" .... I've just started doing that. On the 12" virtually leafless rooting in pure MG MC, in 6" pot, I just used a pencil to poke the strips into holes about 2" in. I haven't watered it in days and the soil still seems a bit moister than I would prefer and the wick has remained wet so tomorrow I'm going to cut some longer strips and poke them further up. I don't really see how it could hurt even if wicks went way up especially with a rooting that has yet to develop many roots. BTW This rooting is in very bright shade provided by a plant on it's south side.
What size plants are you having trouble with keeping hydrated? how full or leafed out, blooming, in containers or ground, how much sun or shade? Almost my whole experience is containers; even have bananas up to 2 story roof line in huge contaier. Which leads me to...
Hi Sharon, To keep this on topic.... I can hear all the plants shreaking every time the doggies head out the door,especially Mr. Ned Mastiff who is all boy. He just has to rub up against and into practically every plant. About the only "safe" plants are the larger bananas, only because of the tall pseudostem raising the leaves above his head and body. Then there's Annie Mastiff (we are down to only two Mastiffs now; down from six or more at all times that we've been owned by since the early 80's), then there's Hank and Hilda Rottendogs, and Cissy Briard. Gosh, I tell people six when it is only five. We lost 13+ yr old Byron Mastiff last fall and it sems I haven't quite adjusted yet.
Hey Sharon, It is raining for real!!!!!!! Thunder and all and a nice slow pace!!!! Glory Glory!!!!!!
Later, geekgranny Alice
Alice,
We finally got some rain!!! It rained some yesterday afternoon, and again about 2:30 a.m pretty good. You could almost hear the plants heave a sign of relief. (Got up about 2:30 to take pain medicine. About two weeks ago, giant granddog Winston, 9 month old bull mastiff, took off while I had hold of his leash, and I didn't let go! After being briefly airborne, I landed flat on my front. Finally had to go to the doctor. He said a rib or two might be cracked, but nothing broken. Also had the audacity to ask the same question DH did: Anybody get a picture?) Anyway, went outside and enjoyed the rain for about 30 minutes. Looks like we might get more.
Veronica,
For hydrating the brugs - would a mister work? We have one on the edge of the patio cover and can adjust it down to almost nothing, so maybe it wouldn't overwater.
Sharon
Oh Sharon, a "bullie", just love those "small" guys. I'm afraid to say that "hilarious" injuries are part of the experience. The girls are usually a bit more "contained" and usually cause less ruckus in and about our person(s). Every once in the great while one of my boys have been more genteel (sp?) but usually they are "all boy" and you have to be on top of their movements. Sorry about your injuries. I fractured a rib once many, many years ago water skiing (slammed into a dock...big duh!!!!) and can say it was not without pain.
Here's what I think I've found out about misters. There are varying opinions about leaf spotting (burns) from water on leaves and sunshine. I avoid getting tap water on any plant when the sun is out or about to come out. Some people say the burning has to do with the minerals/chemicals in tap water causing the burning. Water spotting doesn't seem to be a problem here when the sun comes out bright after a rain. So... all summer I ran a couple of misters on my deck for a large fern and a 4' X 4' potted gardenia. I started it around noon every day about the time sun fully hit the gardenia. The leaves stayed wet most of the day. BUT... here's where I think the difference is: I used a filter made by Arizona Mist that filters out fine and very fine particles; supposed to cut down on clogging of their mist heads from "sediment" and minerals. I get them at Home Depot in the plumbing section where the misting systems and drip systems are located. I can't remember the price now but not too bad and supposed to last a full season of "people" misting. Now, in our neck of the woods just what is a full season???? I would figure about 5 months at the very least for here. I'm going to plan on putting a new filter on any day now for fall/winter/early spring greenhouse use. I even been thinking for a while about putting the filters on faucets that I use to hand water some plants. Sure does cut down on watering time if you don't have to be so carefull about water spotting certain times of the day.
Veronica, I don't quite understand why you have to hydrate your Brugs and I don't. Maybe it is the combination of where they are, i.e. condition of surface they are on if in containers, amount of sun/shade and when they get it. As I said before some of my potting mix is pretty "fast". I wouldn't go over 30-36 hours in the drought and searing sun, awful heat we've been having without watering. 36 hours is the max between watering; it is usually more like every 24 hours. And with "fast" soil it is really hard to over water them. My Brug containers are in an area that I'm putting in lasagne layering so I've kept the as yet unlayered areas moist and what is already layered moist too. Also, they are near the heavy woods and not anywhere near any structures that would radiate heat. Your potting mix could hold some answers too. I've had high peat content potting medium dry out to the point where it wouldn't hold water (it just ran through) untill the pot got a good soaking in a container of water for a day or so.
I sure hope my guess about the mister filters is correct. I'm going to have to do any experiment on some plants to see if it holds true.
Alice
All my plants are in pots. When our new house is built, I'll put some in the ground. The size pot varies with the plant size. My cuttings are in 6" pots. My older plants are in 24" white plastic pots. The majority of the plants are in 14" or 16" pots. Since I bought my Brugs as rooted cuttings this spring, only my Charles Grimaldi, Creamsickle, Citrine, Spring Peach and Knightii have flushed. Jean Pasko keeps losing buds when they are 1/8" long. I don't think it's caused by a chewing insect because the bud and stem are intact. They just turn yellow and drop. Rosamond produced 1 well chewed flower. So did Golden Lady. Citrine, with 2 long stalks is about 7' tall, but it's still in the 14" pot because it and several others have sent roots out the drainage holes and anchored themselves in the ground. I don't want to distrub them until I take them into my greenhouse.
The blooming ones were the ones that wilted the most. I really like Creamsickle. It seemed to be in bloom almost continuously. I lost some flowers because they wilted beyond the point of recovery. I know part of my problem is that the Brugs outgrew the pots, but by the time I noticed I though I would compound the problem by breaking all those roots. I was afraid I would kill them. There were multiple problems: overgrown pots, very very hot, humidity was low (not much rain this summer), very large leaves...
Alice,
I live out in the country. Our house is surrounded by one of our pastures and we have very hot, drying winds blowing through here during the summer without any buildings to block or slow the wind. Our winds are mainly from the northwest or southeast. Our large live oaks are east and west of us. No help. They are too far way from the house for a hose to reach. My plants are up against the northeast side of the house.
I'm using the large 2-1/2 cubic foot bags of Miracle Grow potting soil that Home Depot sells. I tried the Moisture retentive one and didn't like it. It seemed to retain too much moisture and I do know that the biggest plant killer is wet soil.
The idea of water scorching the leaves came from a time when people thought the beaded water would act like a magnifying glass and concentrate the sun light into one burning beam. Water actually helps to cool the leaves down. I've read that Brugmansia leaves will also absorb some of the water, but can't find any proof of that. At the very least, the water would keep the leaves moist until the roots can absorb enough water to re-hydrate.
Forgot to mention that one of the first things we were told was to be sure to put a filter on our mister to keep it functioning properly. Apparently if you run one without a filter, the nozzles will stop up really fast. Seems like you could position the mister and plants so they could benefit from the humidity but not get "dripped" on. I have also wondered if I could put chlorine remover like I use in aquariums in one of those spray end things for outside watering. My mother has the most gorgeous plants, but she also fills about fifty gallon jugs with water and lets them sit for the chemicals to dissipate.
Early this summer I purchased 2 chlorine remover filters to put on outside faucets.They were similar to the filters that you install on showers. The instructions indicated that it was a good idea to keep some water pressure in them to keep them hydrated. After about 2 weeks both of them separated where the two halves screw together in the middle (you unscrew this to replace replacement filter). One was on the drip system with constant pressure; the other was on a faucet with no pressure untill faucet turned on. With or without full time pressure didn't seem to make a difference concerning malfunction.Good idea; bad design. I couldn't unscrew them without stripping the threads. They were about $50 each. I surely would like to find a system that worked and didn't cost an arm and a leg.
Okay thinking aloud here.... For my larger greenhouse (12' x 24') I have access to on-demand hot water system with inside whole house filter to mix with winter cold water from outside faucet, so this doesn't include that gh watering. For the six (6) smaller green houses (7' x 7') heated with small propane heaters and small fans for circulation, that don't have easy access to warm water source I'm concerned with cold water chill for plants. To kill three birds with one stone: (Black painted metal trash cans filled with water to absorb sun heat during day to release small amount of heat at night to supplement heaters and for use when heaters would be too much heat (I keep tropical gh's at minimum 65 F but usually in the mid 70's). Would accomplish, 1) take chill off air temps, 2) take chill off water (dip bucket in to fill), 3) allow water to off-gas chemicals. This would be ideal for winter gh as watering frequency is way less. For summertime when huge amounts of water is required some kind of pump could be used but I haven't thought that out at all. Problems would be many especially because of the number of plants with many of those requiring large amounts of water and daily at that. For me the in line chlorine filters were the logical choice, IF only they had worked and not malfunctioned. BTW... I'm not entirely convinced that the chlorine was that detremental to the plants anyway. I could be entirely wrong about that though. In my personal case, our water is so very loaded with minerals... that is my main concern.
BTW... even with the Mister filters I had to decalcify the brass mister heads a couple of times this summer. You can purchase a special formula made by AZ Misters, but I just used a decalcifier I had around here.
Veronica, I understand about the winds. We are at the highest point from the Red River to all the way down to Austin, I do believe; not unusual to have 20-40 mph gust when most of the DFW area is realativly calm. Although most of the plants have a little protection on very windy days (many, many days) the wind comes whipping down into the cleared areas like mini tornadoes. For years I when I've been over at a friends house about 8 miles north of here and not on the escarptment, and frequently worried about my place during certain weather conditions when there was virtually no wind at her house, she thought I was crazy. A couple of weeks ago she go caught out in a parking lot at a big store near the highway out this way and trapped by her van door before she could get all the way in. A stranger rescued her. She weighs over 300 lbs and is quite strong but couldn't budge the door for what seemed like an eternity to her. As soon as she recoverd she called me to let me know that now she understands.
Just this week I had some wilting on a couple of my Brugs for the first time but no burn thank goodness . I had moved them out from the tree line a bit to get the same amount of sun as last months sun position but it is a couple of hours later in the day; direct from 11:00-2:00 instead of 9:00 to 12:00. Have you considered the misters. Somewhere I was reading about someone who had his misters on a timer that goes on and off every few minutes for several hours a day. A couple of the battery powered timers I picked up at HD a few years ago, but as yet unused, have the capability to do this. They are in-line timers and not extremely expensive, as I remember. The instruction for setting them are quite daunting but I think, after studying for several summers, I might be able to do it. I work on computers, btw... and these timers did have me stumped for a few years.
Temps were predicted to be over 100 here today. Not sure if we reached it though, but hot enough. I'm not going to say anything else outloud again, about "cooler weather".
Alice
Alice,
Too bad about the in-line filters - they sound ideal. I'm going to do some more research on this. As far as storing water in large amounts, what about black plastic/rubber trash cans. I would think they might hold the heat a little longer, but don't know for sure.
I know what you mean about the winds around this area being unpredictable. Strangely, I almost always have a nice breeze in my back yard, and a few blocks away there's not a breath of wind.
Sharon
Sharon, I think I might try comparing both the metal and plastic now before cold (yikes!!!! I said that word...we're doomed) sets in. I'll report back or someone else please comment. I already have some metal ones but need to purchase three more as I gave some away last winter to a friend as emergency gh heat. I'm wondering if the plastic will be rigid enough to hold that amount of water. I'm talking 30-50 gallon size. The metal are pretty inexpensive at HD and painting them with matt, general type black spray paint goes pretty fast. BTW... several of my Brugs are drooping today and it's only 91 F. Alice
Alice
We have a large plastic - I will try filling it with water this evening and see what happens. I guess our weather is about to change in a big way :-) Can't help wondering what Rita's impact will be up here after watching how far inland Katrina went.
Sharon
I have a 75 gallon plastic rain barrel. The plastic is thick enough that it doesn't seem to bow out any. The down side is the cost of each barrel is rather high. Are you considering using the water as a heat source?