Will my frogs freeze?

I have leopard frogs in my pond this year for the first time. They are really making themselves at home, but I always take the fish inside for the winter since the pond freezes. The deepest part is only about 32 inches and I think it freezes all the way down. Can frogs survive this? I know they burrow into mud and hibernate, but the bottom of the pond is plastic. I thought about heating the pond to at least keep the water thawed, but hubby said no way. Should I try to relocate the frogs? Bring them indoors as pets? I feel responsible since they are living at my pond. They are Rana pipiens, by the way.

Naw, they hibernate close to the water's edge, but not under water. Sounds like they're indigenous, so they should be fine. If you bought them on the other hand, and they're a non-native species, then yes ... you have pets to care for this winter.

They just turned up on their own, but I feel responsible for them. So I should expect them to be okay? Will they come out of the pond and sleep somewhere in the flowerbed nearby? Maybe I will leave some of the fall leaves this year instead of cleaning them up, might provide some protection.

Naw, just leave it full until the latest possible week to help ensure they find somewhere out of the pond to hang for the winter. They'll be perfectly fine and will multiply like little bunnies for you next year! :o)

(I have a few leopard frogs in our pond as well ... and I'm sure they snag their fair share of baby fish, but they're so much more colorful and enjoyable than the bullfrogs! Which, by the way, we're down to only one of!)

Great, thanks a lot for the info. I will look forward to baby frogs!

Hey!! These sound cool!! Would they live in an aquarium--you know, with fish?? If so and you have lots of babies next year maybe.......

Bonnie

If your aquarium is full of cichlids, tiny tadpoles would be a delicious treat indeed!

Now I'm home, I can show you some pictures of them!

Another one:

I think this is my favorite. And if I have baby frogs, I'll be begging for good homes to send them to!

So cute!! Now, behave yourself Bogweed Buck!! hehehe Of Course I wouldn't feed the littel froggies to the fishes! hehehe I have a blue Gourami, an Orange Gourami, a black fin tetra, a red tetra and a handfull of rainbow something (tiny little irredescent fish)!! I don't think any of them would eat these froggies??!! hehehe But yeah--if I had cichlids or even Oscars the tadpoles or little fishies would be a yummy little snack!! But, alas, no cichlids or Oscars!! Maybe if I get another tank later--maybe a larger one for the group of fish and snails I have right now and use the 10 gallon for a baby Oscar?? Would love to!! Bonnie

Yeah, but Oscars are only babies for a short time. I would get nothing smaller than a 55 for an Oscar (or any large cichlid)

Yup!! They certainly do not take long to go from that baby to a shark!! hehehe Bonnie

Sylvi74, I think maybe your pond is deep enough to leave them in it, But, I have two ponds that are only 20" deep and the frogs 'wouldn't make it' through winter in them. I have bull frogs and leoperd frogs and I have to move them every fall to another pond area on our property so that they will be ok through winter. If I don't move them, They try to bury themselves in the waterplant pots and they 'dont make it' through the winter. I leave the fish ( Goldfish and shibunkins) in the pond all winter and have a birdbath heater going by the top of the water and they have always done fine, (They have always thrived and I've never lost any ) But for me, The frogs have definately got to be moved! I even have to put netting over the ponds once I get the frogs moved as some keep trying to come back to the ponds they were in.
So, I would think that the depth of your pond would be ok, But, At the depth I have 'It is not', ~ But, On a personal note, I would catch them and bring them to a natural large pond ( Better safe then sorry) For all the frogs I've taken out of my ponds every year, I always seem to get tons of replacements the following summer, I'm pretty sure you would too. ~ I just wanted to tell you my experience with not taking them out of the pond because I didn't want you to make the same mistake I did at one time, But like I said before, Your pond is deeper and it 'might' be allright to leave them.

Forgive me if I'm being gross, but I want to make sure I understand correctly. You know the frogs did not live because you found them dead in the spring? And they were trying to dig into the potted plants? Hmm, I'll have to give this some more thought. Maybe I'll move a couple to a wild pond around the corner and leave a couple in my pond and see how they do. Thanks for letting me know what happened with your pond.

I thought frogs hibernated in the ground, actually. Any other time of the year they'd drown if they remain submerged for an extended period of time. Frogs breathe air .... am I wrong?

It is good that many of you have thought about the well being of your Leopard frogs given we create these water features and attract them to it. Ma Nature provided them with the instinct to do what they need to survive but the existence of all these artificial water features often lulls them into a false sense of security. I do't believe Sylvi74's pond to be a safe environment for any frog to overwinter.

Toads and frogs overwinter differently. Both do need to hibernate in colder zones.
http://www.pbs.org/safarchive/3_ask/archive/qna/3274_j-n-kstorey.html

Overwintering a frog inside your home can be challengning. I can't say as I'd recommend it.

This message was edited Mar 16, 2008 1:59 PM

Equil-
THANK you for the length of your post. I clearly have a lot more studying to do in a short amount of time. I am going to give this new information some thought and some reading. I may holler at you for help!

Dear mother of god ..... that was one long post, Eq! :o)

Thanks, tho ... I've been a herp nut since childhood but have obviously had my assumptions about frog hibernation allllll wrong!

Those in zones similar to me may be able to utilize most of what I do. Be very leery of those heaters and de-icers though. The pond I have that thermostat controlled heater in is located in a microclimate that is right smack dab in front of my home in a courtyard that is some semblance of protected from winds on 3 sides and right in between my front door and a service door to a mudroom. I can go out the service door and hook up a hose to a wash tub in the mud room and refill the pond from my tap water safely by adding a little bit of NovAqua. I can also look out my dining room windows and see the pond to make sure the heater hasn't malfunctioned. I almost didn't offer that I use a de-icer in that pond because it fails so many people. I just happen to have a pond located in an ideal location to be able to pull it off with no casualties.

That link I provided above actually is a good overview of herps.

This message was edited Mar 16, 2008 2:01 PM

Sylvi74, Yes, I tried at one time to leave some as you are thinking of doing and they died, And I 'didn't' have to wait untill Spring to find them, There were a couple that had dug themselves into plant pots but they froze anyway, I had let leaves and muck settle at the bottom of the pond for them and that didn't help either, So I 'never' leave a frog in the pond anymore, I always move them! But I'm always loaded with bullfrogs and leopard frogs the following summer, As I said, Your pond 'might' be deep enough, But, In all honesty I would re-locate the frogs if I were you.

Equil.... Great info! And so nice of you to write it all in! I know you don't believe in useing the heater that I use, But, It has worked for me for years and I have never lost a fish over the winter, My pond is also in 'Full Sunlight' and I'm sure that helps, And I do monitor it every day throughout winter.
You can tell your very into what you do for your herp ponds and I think thats great! Thanks for posting all that info!

I don't disbelieve in using the heaters. Most people who use them don't add the thermostat. Others become complacent and that's when disaster inevitably strikes. I've seen the photos of chunks of ice with fish in them that are dead and I've also seen photos of floating dead frogs that surfaced from hibernation too early because they were tricked into thinking spring had arrived. It happens, we all make mistakes. We're only human and we try the best but sometimes our best isn't good enough. I don't think anyone intentionally kills anything but accidents happen. Every year I remove the frogs and every spring I see one or two come up from both of those ponds that I don't drain. How they get back in there is beyond me but they do. Right now I've been digging out little snapping turtles that hatched from the area surrounding that little pond in the courtyard. I've provided them with a means by which to get out but even so, one got tangled in the Utricularia and drowned. I've been on turtle patrol here for over a week now and I can't believe how many of those little quarter sized turtles with tails longer than their bodies are out there.

Thankyou for putting things in a good way, I too don't think anyone intentionally means to harm there fish or frogs but accidents do happen, I too have the problem of the frogs trying to get back into the pond after relocating them to another 'Natural Pond' area, I have to make sure I get them all out and then I cover the pond with a fine netting, But even with that, Sometimes one or two still get in so I keep checking constantly untill I know it's too cold for them and they went into hibernation in the 'Natural Pond'.
Lots of luck to you with all you do and Especially on your 'Turtle Patrol', Sounds like you got your hands full! Thank God they are in an area where someone really cares about them!

Three more little snappers out of the pond today. I am well over 40 of them now. I wonder what the record is on snappers hatching? Today is the 20th and I can't believe they are still popping up. The weather has been in the 90's and it's supposed to be around 90 again tomorrow.

sylvi74 -

just responding because i live in michigan and have experience here with this. the deep end of my pond is almost 4 feet deep - so it does not freeze. i use a heating ring to keep a hole in the ice and have aeration as well. the frogs will not live. every spring i'm going in to scoop out all the dead frogs. this year i have at least 40 frogs so i'm counting on my greenhouse enclosure to keep them safe. otherwise, i would catch them and release them in one of the nearby lakes.

best of luck,
ron

Thanks Ron. Love your frog and gator! I am looking for my frogs now while I am cleaning out the pond for fall, but I can't find them. Maybe they moved back to the wild on their own? Still have some work to do so maybe they'll turn up yet and I can relocate them. I would feel really bad if I found them dead in the spring.

I'm trying to follow all this. Equil., you don't recommend the heater rings because they can accidently cause more problems by confusing the fish, frogs, etc.? And do you feel a thermostat can eliminate this side effect ?(How?)
On netting, I have lost as many frogs to my netting as I have to the winter. Any suggestions?
Dave

Hi Dave, there are just too many accidents with those darn heater rings. Even with a thermostat, fish may still congregate near the warmer waters but at least the heater doesn't run non stop but then there is still the issue of mechanical failure of the unit and insufficient habitat at the bottom of the pond for the frogs to brumate in and they do have a tendency of surfacing long before their time due to artificially warm waters. When they surface a month early, there is no food source. I know darn well that if I see a straggler surface that I need to get over to PetSmart and buy 100 crickets to release around the pond or the frog is dead. Bluepooch summed the heater rings up pretty well, "i use a heating ring to keep a hole in the ice and have aeration as well. the frogs will not live. every spring i'm going in to scoop out all the dead frogs."

The pond that I have that supplemental heater in is in a microclimate of Z6 maybe even Z7 because of its location in a courtyard sheltered on 3 sides. You are probably a true Z5 so you might want to go with a sheet of plexiglass and a basic whisper pump 400 with a 6” air stone or the basic whisper pump with a 5" air stone and a floating lightbulb set up over the area where the bubbler is.

We had problems netting frogs with fish nets too. We have been using butterfly nets which are a much finer mesh so their little toes don't get stuck. I don't know what your weather is like out there in CT but you might still have time to net out any frogs and relocate them. All of mine are netted and out as of over a week ago. I still am checking to see if anything tries to hop back in but very soon, what ever is in there will have to tough it out. Seems as if every year at least one or two surfaces from that pond that I missed netting out in fall. What drives them to keep hopping back in is beyond me.

Thanks Equilibrium! I've had Springs with dead frogs and without. I have no idea what made the difference.
I've never used a heater ring but thought I should get one for the sake of my fish. Three years ago I lost all of them. I only use my pump to try and keep an opening in my 600 gallon, 2 1/2 ' deep pond. The last 2 winters were extra cold for southern CT and both years my pond froze over for extended periods. Both years, all my fish & their babies survived. Go figure!
So far I have just left my frogs too with the same mixed results. I will try relocating them this year.
Dave

There are so many variables that often times it sure does seem that there is no rhyme or reason to the frog kills. Interestingly enough, they really need appropriate material to hibernate in at the bottoms of ponds and a food source when they come out of hibernation is critical mass as the insects that share the world with them will still be lagging weeks if not a month behind them in any type of an artificially heated pond.

Tip... if you have a younger child/grandchild or a neighborhood kid who is very gentle with animals, offer them $1 for every frog they net and relocate. Makes the kids feel important and as if they are on a "mission" to save frogs. I went about my business one year and watched as my one son created a blind to be able to nab them as they surfaced. Pretty funny actually. Amazing what a kid will do to get $1 and I went about my business of getting bulbs in the ground for the following spring.

Thanks again!