small entryway water garden

I want to put a small water garden at my entry. I had overgrown pittsosporum in this spot a few weeks ago. The shrubs were to thick to cut and had fungus and root rot. Now I have African Iris in the back and red ruffles azalea. I plan to move three of the azalea to the window on the other side and plant a dwarf Little King River Birch, which will only grow to ten feet, in the middle of the patch. The birch is due to come this week. In front of that I want a water garden with a small waterfall, if possible. I want to put water plants and possibly goldfish, too. I have a cat, so I am not sure about putting goldfish. I have never had or put in a water garden before. Any suggestions would be appreciated.

This message was edited Jul 20, 2005 5:38 PM

Here is another angle. I think a water garden about six feet by two or three feet will fit well. (I see looking at the picture that I still need to fix the porch ceiling from Jeanne.)

How large is this area?

Jody

The area is about seven feet by five feet--the pond would take about five by two. It is larger than it appears in the picture. I may just put a water feature instead, but I would like to try a small pond. Two people I know who are experienced with ponds said the area would accommodate one. Neither are local people, though.

What is the mature spread of your birch tree?

Thank you for your interest. I am not an experienced gardener, and I don't always know what is practical or workable or not. I don't know what the mature spread of the birch will be, but it is a dwarf tree that will grow to ten feet tall. It is cultivated for a small space. I moved out three of the azalea to the other side of the walk and placed the birch in the middle. It is very small, only 12 inches, so it will probably take a long time to grow up. I'll get another picture.

I ask because we have a river birch planted in the circular area of our driveway; it is quite large. I looked up the Little King River Birch and I believe the spread is ten to twelve feet. I think the space would be fine for the size pond you want, but you may end up moving the tree at some point. I do think you will like a pond there as it will be easily seen from your front porch.

Send photos when your finished.

Jody

Looks like a great area for a pond. I have been seeing a lot in magizines about pondless water falls. They look real neat and not as much mantance as a pond. No fish or plants just the pleasure of water sound. Dixie

Yes, a pondless waterfall might be good in this instance.... cat, front yard/liabilities, etc.... You can look at some pondless pix at:

http://aquascapedesigns.com/imagegallery/images/index.php?gal=waterfalls

See if a retailer in your area has a display! We have an aquascape pond that we put in ourself, but these pondless waterfalls are very cool, and we hope to have one too at our next home!

Mel

Thank you for the information. The falls there were pretty dramatic. I am thinking of something much more simple. The area is slightly bigger than I had thought--ten feet wide by eight feet. I think I will use a small preformed basin. I planted the river birch, and it is tiny, so I think it will take a long time to grow up and fill out and will be okay for the space for a few years. I won't start on the water fall/pond until my brother-in-law can help, which might be several more weeks. It will probably take me that long to determine what I want. Water features aren't as easy to move as plants. Do you have a picture of your river birch?
Nancy

This message was edited Jul 26, 2005 10:59 PM

Those particular waterfalls did not do justice to how they really look! Try looking at this site... but also google the words pondless waterfall....

http://www.pondkits.com/waterfalls/pondless-waterfall.html

No question, a preformed pond would be the most economical, but DO your homework before you dive in... they are not maintenance free!

m

Mel those are good words to live by, and ones I wish I had heard 2 weeks ago. I put a preformed basin 250 gal. in almost 2 weeks ago, got a couple of lotus, one of them completely submerged except the top of the leaves, a couple of EE,s and 4 gold fish. Also got a little fountain.

Not to highjack this thread, but it's starting to look a bit better now that the algae is not as thick, and have had to replace the fish. Live and learn, or more aptly, do my homework and learn.

We had a small pondless fountain, certainly hassle free. Now have this pond, nice, looks better, sounds better, but more work.

Linda in Victoria BC

The waterfalls on the new link do look less intimidating to set up. A few of them even seem just right for the space I have. I assumed maintenance in a preformed basin would be easier, but from Linda's response, it must not be. Could one or two goldfish be placed in the waterfall basin? Or would that be more lethal for them than the cat?

I"m hoping once I have learned a bit more about ponds, it'll be much easier. Certainly it's not a lot of work.

With our fountain, it was put it in place, plug it in, and add water that was lost through evaporation.

With the pond, it's treat the water so the fish dont die from the cloramines or whatever they are called, but that only involves added a bit of liquid treatment. I have learned that I have algae because I have a submerged lotus plant, that has fertilizer in it. That will get the algae going. I bought a passive filter that is sitting on the bottom of the pond and added another water treatment for the algae, neither were a big deal. When the pond store has liquid barley I will add that.

I went from no maintaince with the fountain, to a bit of maintanence with the pond. We are much happier with the pond.
Here's our pond.

Linda

Linda, that's about what I've had in mind for a pond. Instead of a fountain, I want a waterfall (very small) that spills into the basin. A fountain is a good idea though if a waterfall is not feasible. Your pond looks good. It seems to support a lot of plants. The outside plants are attractive, too.

I think i would remove the schrubs that are there and dig that whole area a foot
or so deep. The cement pad under the window would be part of a plant ledge
in the pond. dump in a few loads of dirt under the window to form it up to just under the
window. add some dirt to burm it up around the other 3 sides also.
in the corner left of the window would be the waterfalls , nice and tall one.
then lay the field stones to cover the dirt and liner.

Filtration is the key to keeping clearer water. Most preform ponds don't have this in the basic setup, so that is what is discouraging to most first timers.

If you will research what is working for others, and the water garden forum is a great place to get answers, but you will have to do some digging if you can take the time, or ask specific questions, and ponders will be glad to give advice!

good luck, and go for it!

mel

Thanks, Mel. I think the aquascape plans are too pricey, but I am watching the other discussions in the water garden forum for ideas and information.

I like my front porch and plan to add seating and a railing, so I don't want to make that part of a water garden. Anything bigger would have to go into the backyard.

ok here is my other idea ,, i see a small crack in that sidewalk so out it goes ..
rip it up .. redo it but extend it out from the door a few more feet to give you
more pond room. you still have the bushes and such between the pond and front
window.

Excellent! I'd be sold on that if it was mine. I'm a visual person, so the drawing idea works for me.

Thanks for the comment , hope fireant thinks the same .
Here is another view ..

Wow, Sparky! That is stunning! My imagination had been stilted until I saw this. The graphic does help in visualizing the results. That's a great program you have. It even has the waterfall. It appears as if I could keep the sidewalk, maybe just cover over it. I don't know that I would bring it under the second window but part way around the corner looks good. It is very close to the foundation, and the depth in the area is limited which is why I put a planter bed in front of the second window. Here's a picture.

I don't have a view of the front of the house close up, but here is one of both windows from an angle. It would be a different feature to have walking to the front door. I think my brother-in-law tried to convince me to do something like this, but I just couldn't visualize it.

Another problem is the roof line on the part of the house that juts out on the side where the waterfall would be. If you notice, there are no rain gutters or spouts. (When my daughter's fiance and his brother from Michigan were visiting recently, they were amazed that none of the houses have rain gutters.) I would prefer not to have to deal with the maintenance problem. When it rains here, it really rains. Little trenches tend to form under the roof lines. I've learned the hard way to keep the roof line in mind. Could the pond handle both rainwater and roof water? I was planning to place the pond well away from the roof line. I would probably just put a pond in the large block of space with plants around it. I also had given up on a waterfall (before seeing yours), but was thinking about a bubbler or fountain instead.

Fireant,

If you had a tile roof, I wouldn't be terribly concerned except for the pond overflow during heavy rains.

Two concerns here: Composite shingles, even tho it appears to be new, will gets bits and crumbs of asphalt in the runoff to your pond. Second, the configuration of the roof being what it is, you will have a whole lot of water running from 2 angles right down into the pond.

I would urge you to get gutters installed, at least over the front area of the house. Not only will your pond appreciate it, you will too when you come out your front door during a heavy rain. With gutters you won't have that roof water run down the back of your shirt when you run to the car and back. Not to mention the algae and mildew that will accummulate on your front steps and sidewalk from the runoff. Without trees/leaves standing over the top of your house, the rain gutters would be nearly maintenance free.

They have some pretty good self-install systems available at the HD and Lowes. Complete with directions and not terribly expensive. Get your brother-in-law to help with that too.

Molly
:^)))

Keep us up on your progress. I'm really looking forward to seeing it.

I think I am going to go with my original idea of a peformed pond, small, because this graphic looks almost like a pool and would probably take a lot of work to install and to maintain. I can keep the small pond away from the roof line. Gutters on the front sound like a good idea. I do get a lot mildew on the front porch. Removing the overgrown hedges has helped there, though.

eeeeksssss , no rain gutters .. I have been hooked on this HGTV channel
and they have had a inspector come out to houses on the show to inspect them
so the people can fix up stuff before they sell the house. one show had a house
with no gutters on parts of the roof , the rain water coming from the roof just laied
on the ground close to the house and rotted some of the house , door jambs, foundation,
ect .. it was nasty .. might be somthing you need to add to the house.

back to the pond ,

The program i used to make that picture is called Bryce3d , now its up to like version or 6 or
somthing. it takes some getting used to, there is alot to it.


if its possible , and what i was thinking is just digging out the area
and the pond could be lined with cement then a pondliner put in.

why is the depth limited ?

I never minded not having gutters because of maintenance. I just fixed that missing facia Jeanne took from the porch. It's hard to find handymen, and my brother-in-law lives far away. I don't like to burden him with fix-it stuff. He's a real help, though, and he likes projects like ponds and gardening. His favorite thing to grow is pinneapple.

The ground here is sand. There's no dirt unless we add it. So rain just soaks right in. Fortunately, my neighborhood is not a flood zone and is higher up, but other areas in Florida have miserable times with flooding. In one house I lived in, the rain would pour down and saturate the yard, leaving what would appear to be a pond. In less than two hours, the water was all absorbed into the ground.

My yard doesn't pool like that one. Even after the hurricanes, the ground had no standing water. I think I may get the rain gutters, though. My neighbor next door installed some two years ago, but he's the only one who has them in the subdivision. I'll talk to him about gutters. The gutters did stay on his house through the storms, which is a good thing.

If I dig too deeply, I run into cement slabs in parts. Other parts are clear. I don't know why, just the way the house was built. I think I can go almost three feet deep in some parts, but only one or two in others. Out in the yard, I can dig deeper, but the front yard does have a septic tank, a drainfield, underground electricity, water lines, and cable for TV running through it, so I have to be careful digging there. The back yard is the best spot. I think I will put in a small, bubbly pond here, and as I learn how to take care of it, put a bigger pond in the back, or put the dramatic pond you designed in later. I think putting cement first for a pond like that one would be better than a pond liner by itself.

I am an HGTV fan, too. I guess Curb Appeal is my inspiration. My backyard is a blank slate, only one small oak, two crape myrtle, and a hibiscus tree. I've had to remove my other plants because I planted them too close to the house.

nevermind the slabs of concrete , just take the garden hose and lay it out as to
what you want and start diggin ... when you hit something
deal with it , ohhhhh wow a plant shelf ...LOL ..or get out the big hammer.
cable tv is easy to deal with, just lay a piece if PVC pipe down and run it through it,
pout the cement / dirt /sand over it .. anyways .. good luck on whatever you do .,..
keep us posted.

That's a good idea--a pond with varying depths. I plan to start the work August 15. I've learned not to just jump in to things like this. It has been really helpful getting ideas and reading about other people's pond experiences. I'll take pictures as I work, and hopefully, it'll look and work right when I am finished.

Toss old carpet over the edges of those concrete chunks. That will pad the sharp spots so the concrete won't tear the liner.

I see that you have been doing your research! It's amazing how much there is to learn! The ponders on here are just wonderful to help!

Do take lots of progress pics, and keep us updated!

mel

Thanks for the tip on the carpet.