I have read you need to airlayer, but it is not working. Can green growth be rooted in water or dirt?
Anyone know how to propagate this?
Does this look like Michelia champaca 'alba'?
Thanks
That looks like Michelia "alba" all right! Such beautiful trees. Such gorgeous, apple green leaves. I have the orange one and was going to trim off a lower side branch and give it a try with rooting hormone and potting soil moistened with Superthrive & hydrogen peroxide in the water. It pretty much works for everything else I've tried it with so... I've never had luck rooting anything in water here in South Florida. They always rot.
Good luck with yours, and I hope we get some more feedback about this in the thread. ;-D
I edited this to add that Art just shared a great way to propagate cuttings that I'm going to be trying with my michelia champaca. It involved 4" pots and 2 liter soda bottles. Check it out:
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/525641/
This message was edited Jul 2, 2005 8:44 AM
Hi Kell, that is indeed Michelia x alba, one of my favorite trees in the whole world. It is actually a hybrid between Michelia champaca and Michelia montana, and Monrovia has labeled it incorrectly by calling it white Michelia champaca or Michelia champaca 'alba.' There is a white version of the Michelia champaca, but it has not made it here from Thailand yet and is still rare. A friend of mine in Thailand sent me seeds from his tree, but they are difficult to germinate and require lots of heat. The seeds of Michelia x alba are sterile.
Both the Michelia x alba and the Michelia champaca are difficult to propagate, which is why they are so expensive. The Michelia x alba is propagated by air-layering a flowering tree or by grafting. The Michelia champaca is propagated by seeds, but seedlings won't flower until they reach a degree of maturity, which is usually around five years or so. If you have a Chinese nursery near you, check with them for established plants and save yourself the time and trouble. I know master gardeners who have been unsuccessful propagating this tree. Also, Top Tropicals has it on sale right now for around $40, I think. Check to see if there is a Temple Gardens near you. There is one in El Monte, and they have trees which start at around $40, but sometimes you can get one for around $20 if you can catch a sale. Both my M. x alba and my M. champaca are blooming now too.
Here we call it Paklan and it is, indeed, wonderful! Airlayering is very successful I have found.
Carol, have you air-layered a branch? If so, would you mind giving step-by-step instructions? I know the basics: wound, stuff, wrap, but I'm curious how you do it.
Pak Lan is the Thai name also.
Thanks Clare. This is not mine. A nice lady who lives on my way to work has 2 big ones in her front yard. She had the entire tops of them with moss and silver foil. She is not getting any of them to take. I told her I would try on here for advice. I had stopped by her yard to take pics of her cannas. Too die for. Every year I drive by every chance I get to enjoy them. Anyway, we got to talking.
I wonder if they need more humidity like Carol has in Hawaii to root. Here we have little.
She gave me a few unopened flowers, the smell is delightful. I had emptied my pockets by the computer and could smell them for a few days. Just great. She loves fragrant plants so I told her I would give her an Arborea. She will go nuts over that scent.
Anyone out there in Daveland have both this tree and a true Arborea? I told her the frangrance of a True Arborea won hands down. I am wondering if anyone else agrees.
These are her cannas.
Kell,
Those cannas are beautiful! They look like they are all Cleopatra? Fantastic. Your half red/half green leaves canna leaves are spectacular also.
I think you have hit the nail on the head about the humidity. I do believe that is the key. The heat/moisture is needed to keep the wounded branch green and hydrated while it is developing roots of its own; otherwise, it will dry up and turn brown. It probably needs a shady position as well, and I bet hers is in full sun. It is probably done in a controlled temperature greenhouse by the commercial enterprises. By the way, I did see them for sale at Green Thumb/Green Arrow. Monrovia was the distributor. They wanted $140 for something like that for a nice size tree. I scoffed so loud that I was sure someone must have heard me, but no one looked over:-)
Someday, I'll be able to answer your question about which is better, but for now, Michelia x alba is at the top of the fragrance list:-)
LOL Clare. One day you are going to have to get Arborea!!!!
I have airlayered a lot just recently...so am a recent expert!!!. I don't use foil...I use sandwich bags, cut open....so they are a LONG piece of pastic. Another gardener friend uses strips of black plastic...absorbs the heat and doesn't all the UV into the wet moss to make 'muck'.
OK...so what I do first is to choose a node at the place I want the roots to emerge. About 1/4" below that node, I score a cut all the way around the brance as well as a score about one inche lower. Between the two scores, I scrape away all/ALL of the cadmium layer. Then, with a wad of damp Spagnum Moss with a bare sprinkling of Root-tone, I wrap the wound. (btw...VERY little Root-tone). So, with the wound wrapped in moss, I wrap the plastic around it, bunching it up so that the moss totally covers the wound and the plastic encloses it. I start at the "downhill" end first and wrap it in twist ties, then secure the plastic and wrap the "uphill" end.
From what I understand, the point isNOT keeping water out from the moss, but it is keeping the moss damp/wet. I have not tried Paklan...but I have been successful with others. I will try my Paklan next....
I think that if you can keep the airlayer damp, you will have success!! If you use Messenger, I suggest you use it 3 days before you start....then go on the regular schedule.
Air layering is my new best friend....my garden looks like a large collection of cocoons!!! To know if it is ready or not is difficult....often you can see the roots, sometimes it is by feel. When I cut to plant, I just loosen the moss...anymore disturbance often rips the roots out.
Cheers,
Carol
Thanks, Carol, for that wonderful explanation. I'd love to hear how it works for you on your Pak Lan. I tried layering a branch once in a pot of potting soil, but it didn't work.
I have, in very large pots, two Paklan trees. Blossoms are white. Purchased at nursery that just called them Paklan. Smell is divine.
"Clare", I'm confused. Your photo appeared to have golden blossoms while "Kell's" photos appeared to be white blossoms and yet you say the "white version" has yet to appear in the US from Thailand. How do you identify that both your's and Kell's are the same (michelia x alba)??
Perhaps "Carol" from Hawaii can comment on how she identifies what hers is. (mine are too young to try air layering yet but thanks for the detailed instructions Carol/may try that some day)
A friend of mine has a great nursery. She is an airlayering maniac...and had about 40 Paklans from layers she made. She is the one who taught me how to airlayer...VERY low tech (we pull the moss off the rocks!). I will ask her about the differences in the flower color...perhaps different stages of flowering?
I only know mine is Paklan cause Sherri told me it was...and it looks like the foliage of others I have seen.
Hi Maui, the white-flowered Michelia x alba (Pak-Lan) is a hybrid of Michelia champaca, which has yellow flowers. The Michelia champaca has slightly different leaves, different growth habit, and some other different characteristics than those of Michelia x alba. For instance, Michelia champaca leaves are pubescent while Michelia x alba leaves are glabrous. Also, Michelia x alba seeds are sterile; Michelia champaca seeds are fertile.
A white form of Michelia champaca was created when seeds of the yellow-flowered Michelia champaca were sown and a tree was brought to maturity and found to have white flowers. It retained all the other Michelia champaca characteristics, including the fragrance, which is distinctly different from Michelia x alba. Michelia x alba has a very sweet-smelling fragrance while Michelia champaca has a much more musky fragrance, which is stronger. I have been told that the Michelia champaca with white flowers does not smell as nice as the Michelia champaca with orange flowers.
Below is a picture of the white-flowered Michelia champaca, taken in Thailand. As far as I know, it is not being sold here commercially. Michelia champaca, Michelia x alba, and Michelia figo are more common. I also have Michelia chapensis, which is somewhat rare.
You can see from the picture that the white flower of the Michelia champaca is indeed different than the white flower of the Michelia x alba.
Here is the Michelia champaca yellow flower:
Since Michelia champaca can be grown from seeds, new hybrids can be created, and the chances for different shades of yellows, oranges, and white are possible.
What looks like a difference in the Michelia x alba flowers is just a matter of lighting. When a flash is used, the white is brought out. Without a flash, the flowers appear more cream-colored.
Wow, thanks Clare! Have you any seeds or cuttings of your Michelia chapensis you would like to trade??????? (on her knees beseaching the Goddess Pele)...
Carol
Hi Carol, my Michelia chapensis is a fairly good-sized tree about six-feet tall, but it has not flowered for me yet. It got so large that I couldn't keep it in a container any longer and had to plant it in the ground and essentially give it to the landlord. Since I won't be able to take it with me when I have to move next, I'll probably sow any seeds I get to be able to keep this one when it does flower. I have not seen it for sale again anywhere. I imagine that, like other Michelias, seeds are hard to get to germinate and take a great amount of heat over time.
Clare, many Mahalos (thanks) for taking the time to give such a detailed answer. I feel like I just sat in on a class. And I looked up the leaf terms so now I know my Pak-lan has glabrous leaves. Also your photos were excellent. If not in this lifetime, in one of your lifetimes you were a great teacher.
Pema, the Novice
I did talk to my nursery friend this morning (who had given me a Paklan she grew from seed). She said they spring up so fast and true it isn't worth airlayering. AH, and she did say that the White flowered tree is called Maulan (I think it is Mau...?). It smells so good!
And yes, I agree with Pema...you are a great teacher. Hey Pema...Im going to be in Haiku next week for 4 days...!!lol
Carol
Thanks, Carol. I had always thought that Pak Lan referred to the white-flowered M. x alba, not the yellow-flowered Michelia champaca. Maybe it refers to both? Hmmm.
The M. champaca seeds here do grow quickly into large trees, but they take about five years to reach the flowering stage so I think most people buy them as mature flowering trees. I bought two M. champaca's here for about $40. They were about 6-8 feet tall and had not flowered yet. They flowered a couple of years after I purchased them.
The M. x alba, however, is the one worth layering because the seeds are sterile, and it is the only way that it can be propagated other than grafting. If you air-layer a branch of a flowering tree, you will have blooms on a very small plant, which is ideal. You can find 1-2 foot flowering trees here in some Chinese nurseries for around $40. Monrovia (the big grower here) also sells bigger ones for around $140.
Here's an interesting thread I found: http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/higard/msg0907323226772.html
Here is a good article on Michelias: http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/fragrant/2005034256008093.html
Carol,
Hope you see this message. I have been off line for several weeks so never knew about your trip to Haiku. Would have loved to meet up with you, Thanks for the great air layering instructions. Next time you head Maui way give me a call. I'm in the book; Gilman with the Kihei phone number (879).
I lost track of this thread. WOW Claire. You know your stuff! LOL THANKS
Thanks, Kell:-) Not really -- but I try.
I have had my Michalia Alba for over a year now and I got it a one year old and its getting bigger but no sign of a flower yet.I have potted up annd I tried bloom feed still no luck.
Any ideas for a quick bloom
Celt, Michelia x alba (white flowers) will bloom when very small if it was created by air-layering a flowering tree. A Michelia champaca needs a degree of maturity to bloom and will usually not bloom until it is five years old or older. The leaves look very similar on both trees so make sure you have the M. x alba. My friend thought she had a Michelia x alba since that is what she purchased from Alan at Trop Trees, but year after year, it would not bloom. I kept telling her that I thought she had a Michelia champaca, not a Michelia x alba. Then one day, it finally bloomed with orange flowers! It indeed was a grafted Michelia champaca. Anyway, Michelia x alba needs a little bit of growth to bloom well so yours will probably bloom well in the spring next year. The first year that I had mine, it didn't bloom much at all, but the second, third, and now fourth year have been wonderful, and I get blooms nearly all year long. I wouldn't fertilize at all, but if you do, use a fertilizer for acid-loving plants as Michelias are Magnolias and prefer that type of fertilizer.
I just found this tree for sale over in Foster City. But I was good, I just looked. LOL
Hi Kell! You were good! I am tempted to buy another, but I can't because I have no room left!