Monarch ready to chrysalis??

I'm new to gardening and have 5 Monarch cats. I've never seen the maturation process before but I think they might be ready to chrysalis. The larger ones (~1 3/4"L x 3/8" D) are getting sluggish. I'm not sure if it's because they are ready to morph or because they've nearly run out of leaves. There are ~ 20 leaves left though and I understand they'll eat the stalks of the milkweed too so perhaps they're not faint from hunger. My only other clue is that I relocated one to a stalk site with more leaves and noticed some silk left behind.
Are they ready? If not, how big do they get before they're ripe for change? Will they do anything special before they turn? I'd like to be able to watch. Also, how fast do they grow? I can't find the baby (less than 1") I saw yesterday but I do see a smaller one that looks different from the rest. Not yet plumped out?
I've reviewed several sites that talk about the process in general terms but not the details. Here are some photos of my butterfly space and the cats. The last one is the one tht looks different to me although it doesn't show so much in the photo. Normal variation or related to age/size?

Thanks in advance,

Maggie

more photos- who can tell me how to post more than one photo at a time?

Thanks,

Maggie

more photos

Welcome to DG Maggie!!!!

How fun! You have a veritable caterpillar nursery there :-). Hopefully the butterflies around here will think that of my garden too :-).

As for the photos, you can only post one photo at a time.

-Julie

Welcome Maggie! I love to talk about butterflies! :) I bring quite a few cats (Black Swallowtails and Monarchs) inside to raise and pupate. I have been leaving the BST's outside longer now, but try to put them in my cage when I notice them being large enough to pupate. That way I can help protect them somewhat and also watch them and release them.

The Monarchs eat so much that I am leaving them outside as long as possible too, and covering them (if possible) with a mesh laundry hamper. The BST cats will empty their system before they pupate, which is a green messy spot. The Monarchs don't do that, they just stop eating and start wandering off.

Cats can look a little different, some fatter than others, some colored a little darker. This season's BST's have been a lot lighter in color than the winter brood. I imagine Monarchs could be the same, but I don't get any until later.

The cats can look totally different in different instars too, depending on the type. I can't remember right off what the Monarch first instars look like. (sleep does that to me...or lack of) Your baby could have changed, wandered off, OR if they are all on the same plant, larger cats have been known to actually...gulp...eat the other ones. I guess they don't have very good eyes, so they just munch and keep going. That depends on the size tho. I have had very small cats just totally disappear so that's all I could assume. Since then if they are inside I keep the sizes separated.

Once they get big and have been eating for at least a week, cover them or put them in some sort of cage or something so that you can watch them eclose. It's a MUST SEE for everyone!! If you can watch them actually make their chrysalis, even better. I video taped it once and showed all my family. It's the most amazing process. This is my last batch of Monarch chrysalis. I think there were over 40 there.

Here is my laundry hamper habitat.

thanks for posting, mag and kon, lots of good information and nice pics...I planted my milk weed, etc., but have no sign of monarchs...some other pretty pretty butterflies are liking my garden, though...

Welcome to dg Mag, I know you will like it here---and btw, it looks like you have a wonderful garden in that first pic! :-) t.

Thanks, I think I'll like it here too. The best & worst part of the garden overall is that we've been here for less than a year and I'm a new gardener. I have stuff I have no idea what it is. I'm convinced that butterflies prefer ugly plants though. I've stopped pulling up anything I don't like- at least after seeing a plant I pulled up at a nursery for a nice price. Turned out it attracts butterflies. Now the remaining one won't bloom. DRAT!
My hubby bought the cats more milkweed today. I transferred the 3 I could find to the new plants. Spouse said it's the first time I've thrown a party and run out of food ;-)

Maggie

yes, I'm in the same boat. Learning gardening as I go along in this house we bought 1 1/2 years ago.

Made a lot of mistakes pulling out the perennials I planted last fall, thinking they were weeds...(that's easy to do in a 'butterfly' garden where they all seem to look like weeds!) just killed me when I realized what I had done...especially the ones I grew from Seed!

Now I am focussing on re-arranging all the plants that color clash...it's a really a mess, but, I have a 'vision', it will just take some time/energy$$ to achieve it!

I can see why they say a good garden takes years!

Happy gardening, and good luck with the Cats...(keep posting pics) t.

Thanks for the info KKB. Some of my larger cats disappeared--- into the garden I hope to chrysalis? I have 2 big ones left and we found tiny babies yesterday. I moved the big ones to portable plants and brought them in on the screen porch.
I'm realy glad I put most of the butterfly plants together. I had to tent it yesterday to spray for ticks. I cut all the flowers/buds off the nectar plants too. It was a loss but hopefully more blooms will come. The dogs, the house, and MY BED were infested with a hatching despite Advantage for the dogs. i was not a happy camper. I decided to spray myself after the professional I called informed me everything had to be sprayed and the butterflies would have to be sacrificed.

Maggie

Oh Maggie, I'm so sorry to hear that! Sacrifices have to be made sometimes. I can not deal with bugs in the house!! Last year my older son came home from his dad's and brought fleas. My husband had a few but I hadn't. When we got home from a weekend at Sea World, we walked into the house and were attacked by an infestation!! I have never vacuumed so much in my entire life. I just recently saw a tick outside, which is the first I've ever seen. In the 2 seconds that it took me to thump this weird spider off the towel on my lawn chair, I realized it was a tick and gone by then. AAAHHH!!!

Good luck, with the ticks and the yard recovery!!

Just a brief update: Pics to follow in a day or two.
One cat chrysalised. 2 died on the back porch- 1 had crawled off to pupate, I'm not sure about the other one- perhaps it fell of the plant. The big one I found seizing. It had wandered out of its' pot to pupate and I surmise hit some Dragnet I sprayed in the corners for the ticks. I was very sad- didn't realize s/he'd wander out of the pot. The new hatchlings have been moved out front- the dogs don't do there so I don't care about the ticks.
I definitely think the monarchs purge before pupating just as the swallowtails do. There's lots of frass. I have several eggs left on the portable plants so am anticipating more hatchings. I'm in the market for a cage- suggestions are welcome. Here's a link I found in the process. I'll probably build one myself rather than buy.
Warning- this is a GardenWeb link. I don't think I broke a rule but if I have- no harm intended.
http://forums.gardenweb.com/forums/load/butterfly/msg0614354428125.html
Scenes from a Reptarian/Butterfly Cage

Maggie

Very cool. Thanks, Maggie!

John

Maggie, I've raised a lot of Monarchs inside from eggs and I've never had them empty themselves like BST's do. I'm hoping your cat is ok because that doesn't sound good, but I could be wrong.

I don't think Dave has a problem posting links to GW. I've seen others and I think we all know that it exists. The keeper at GW doesn't want the secret out that other websites exist other than GW, thus the fear of making a mistake there. Anyways, so we are just looking at Sherry's cage? It's very nice. I've seen several on ebay that I really would like that are like hers. btw, you will learn everything you need to know about butterflies from her. :)

Hi KKB,

WOW! Your cat pictures are so cute! What kind of camera are you using?
I was impressed with Sherry's cage but also the cats and the frass observations. Mine aren't dumping liquid poop. I noticed right before I had a successful chrysalis that there was a lot of frass- solid but plentiful. It may just be related to size and/or eating and storing a bunch prior to the transformation. I've been watching the current guys closely and they're looking healthy. Well hydrated, good appetites, no abnormal movements. Funny how you can do a basic health assessment of any organism just on eating, drinking, peeing, pooping, moving. Works for my pets too.

tabasco: I've been gardening for nearly 20 years, and I still sometimes pull "weeds" that aren't weeds, and nearly every spring finds me moving plants that I thought would look nice together and end up clashing. That's one of the great things about gardening - it turns a love of learning and nature into a lifelong joy - you never know it all.

Stacy

sstateham--thanks for the reassurances about gardening!

Right now, the garden has lots of six feet tall plants that I thought/think were/are perennials, that really look a LOT like they could be very healthy weeds (with all that mushroom compost I've been putting on them!)... The neighbors are laughing at me, I know, for nurturing these weeds along this spring...

oh, well. Next year I'll know better.

A few white butterflies flitting around there, too, but nothing very interesting to report. boo hoo...

...one man's weed is another man's flower. :) Margaran, my camera is just a little Kodak Easy Share. It seems to be taking better macro pictures than regular ones. I finally figured out how to zoom in good on the macro too, but it's hard to know if the shot came out until I come inside and load them. So I'll take a few pics and run inside before my subject is gone.

Wow konkreteblond!!!

That pic of all those chrysalises is awesome!!! It looks like some of them lined up in formation LOL. Are they really that deep of a turquoise color?

Mark

I never noticed Mark, but they do look like they lined up! lol I guess they are orderly little creatures. They just found an empty spot and got in line. They are really green, but look a little different in that lighting. I think I had 40 in there. What fun at Christmastime! see the lights in the background?

If you've never raised a Monarch, you MUST do it. I never knew what the big fascination was with them until I had my first one come to my yard. Then I went to someone elses house and searched thru their field of milkweed for eggs. I found a lot so ended up going there constantly to get more food, there and the side of the highway. Since then I have been able to grow my own, which is SO much easier! lol

Very nice pic, Paige!

We have a newly minted guest. Our pupa finally hatched. Here she is

We have several larvae in various stages now. A friend gifted us with some plants and baby cats. My hubby gifted me with a butterfly cage- and just in time!

What a nice guy.

Some are bigger than others. this is Jabba the Hutt.

This one is bolting to pupate.

Wow, margaran! Thanks for sharing your photos. Where did your DH find the cage?

John

He made it from scrap wood and screen that we had here. I had asked him to put together a quickie thing before the cats morphed someplace dangerous. I came home to find him finishing framing it with a T-square. It's lovely- we spent several hours watching the cats.
We came home from dog training class to find one in the J position. He'll probably morph while we're sleeping. One guy is still busy chowing down- at this hour! I thought they went sort of dormant in the evening?

Maggie

Tell me more about the screen he used.

John

That cage sounds like a really neat idea. Could you maybe post a picture of the over all cage, please? :)

Yes, please! Pics and info on the cage :-) What a great guy your hubby is :-)

-Julie

I echo those requests!

I'm new to this butterfly stuff, and have been trying to plan out a butterfly garden. I purchased a passion vine 2 weeks ago, and on it was a cat!! It has already turned into a chrysalis, but I'm not sure it's done??? It looks sort of dried up, but looks a lot like the pictures that I've seen posted. I'd thought about bringing it in the house, but would rather build a cage and try and get more cats growing.

So much fun!!

PiggyPoo (that name cracks me up!) Yours should be either a Gulf Fritillary or a Zebra Longwing. Was the cat orange/black or white/black? I've got a couple of GF's on my vine now. I don't like to bring them inside because that vine is hard to bring in. It's not like the fennel that you can just stick in a vase.

Maggie, I'm jealous...and I want to see that cage too!

Konkrete, I do believe it is a GF. I was sent a very good site, from someone that had some great pics of a GF doing it's thing, and it was exactly what my cat looked like. It was sort of orangy/black, with a lighter maybe yellow stripe running down it's side. My vine is small enough that I could bring it in the house, but I felt I might be disturbing the poor thing. And it looks so shriveled up, I'm not sure if it's even ok. But I'm going to keep a close eye on it. Wish I had a camera, I'd share it with you.

P.S. PiggyPoo came from me being sooooooooo happy for the weekends to get here, and being "happier than a pig in..well, you know...poo"

Hi All,

Here are pics of the cage. I'll pass on the compliments. John- the screen is fiberglass screen door fabric. The roll is 36" wide so that dictated the 18" height of the cage. It disassembles easily for cleaning and for photographing the cats/chrysalises. I like that the top lifts off, a hinge would have disturbed the chrysalis I think. You can see the bottom and top are both trays that frame the outside of the sides of the box. These have diagonal strips at the corners for stabilization.
At some point there will probably be more strips on the bottom outside the length or width of the box. The weight of the plant and/or water "vase" will stretch the screen eventually.
Perhaps a small corner wedge on the inside corners of the top would allow stabilization without blocking the view. It seems the cats kind of hide under those outside crosspieces sometimes. This was all made with stuff we had in the garage already so the price was right and much nicer than an aquarium.

Maggie

This is the bottom in the foreground and the sides further back.

This photo is rotated. It is the box sides, the screen fabric is stapled in.

The bottom tray.

The top tray. There's a cat in the J shape about in the middle of the photo. The crinkly thing further front is a milkweed leaf I gave hime when he was cruising the top before he found a good spot.