Question for Kell on systemic insecticides

Hi, Kell and others- I am being frustrated to death trying to control fourlined plant beetles (look very similar to cucumber beetles) on my flowers. I read several posts by Kell on using Bayer Systemics - both the Bayer Advanced Garden and Insect Control and the Bayer Advanced All in one Rose and Flower. I too, really want one I don't have to spray because I swear I get more on me than the plants! Can you tell me how these worked for you? Especially the 1 year kind. Ever seen this critter in your garden: http://www.ppdl.org/dd/id/4-lined_plant_bug.html

Actually, the bug bugging me looks more like a cucumber beetle with 3 stripes on his back, but the damage looks like this picture - which do you think it is?

I know this was addressed to Kell but I'd like to offer some advice. Before I do so you should know that I'm a Qualified Applicator with a Landscape Maintenance category on my card (CA QAL #39954). If you are going to use chemicals on your plants, you should use an insecticide containing rotenone, pyrethrum, malathion, or carbaryl applied according to the directions on the label. Keeping the refuse picked up each fall will help reduce the beetle numbers as well.
Also keep in mind that these beetles are capable of spreading diseases such as bacterial wilt and mosaic virus as they feed .

Hi, Bagpypr -

Thanks for the advise, I welcome anyone's comments on this. Do you recognize the damage in the picture? i.e. is it the fourlined beetle or the cucumber beetle? I actually caught one of them feeding on a brug this morning and I managed to grab him (they are REALLY quick) and throw him on the ground where I mashed him with my shoe. Last year they totally ruined alot of my container plants. Do the ingredients you mention come in a systemic form? Or are they contact sprays - because it is really rare that I can actually catch them to spray.

Diane

I am curious, Bagpypr, why you don't mention Imidocloprid?

Diane, we have a voracious beetle here called the Chinese Beetle...lots of moths and countless other gnawing, chewing hungry bugs. I have been using the Bayer Product for about 2 years now and am a firm believer. I rue the day the critters become tolerant and it is no longer effective. My weapon of choice is the Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub...mixing 1oz. per gallon of water...and drenching the soil...larger plants in the ground getting as much as a gal. In our 150" of rain per year, the systemic lasts about 8 - 10 months. We had some you Cacao Trees that were practically defoliated by the beetles....and since we would not be harvesting for at least 2 years, I drenched them and they came back healthy and strong.

I have been told that the Imidocloprid does not "travel" out to the fruit/flowers...and that it is safe for edibles...but I won't try that. I do know that with my hoyas, on a newly drenched plant in flower, the aphids are happy campers IN THE FLOWERS...but not on the new growth. I have also used it for any chewing or sucking critter...grasshoppers, thrips, mealies, scale....

The Bayer Rose and Flower spray is topical and I use it to hit bugs on site if that's my only weapon...but that spray is only systemic for a much shorter period (2-3 weeks).

Hope this helps.

Carol

Last summer when the Japanese Beetles came (I ask my husband to alert me when he sees them swarming out of the treated holes on the golf course), I put 5 % Sevin powder in the toe of an old stocking and puffed it about the Brugs. That is Carbaryl.
It lasts until the next thunderstorm.

Thankfully, I do not have those kind of beetles, Diane. But I too like Carol swear by Bayer Advanced Tree and Shrub for everything but mites. I love it. Mainly for its ease of use and the length of time it is effective. It is no mess no fuss! It killed a heavy infestation of hard scale on my oleanders that I had sprayed with everything for several years and they kept showing back stronger. One application and they were gone forever.

I know itis expensive, but since it lasts a year, I htink it worth it.

Good luck Diane. I hate it when bugs ruin your prize plants.

Kell, What works against mites on Brugs? I've had my Brugs for about 3 months. Some seem free of mite while others are magnets.

Veronica

Great idea about putting the Sevin in a stocking or a sock!!! Here the Sevin is great for droughts....but too much rain to handle it on a daily basis. That's why I love the Imidocloprid!!

Veronica, there are a lot of things that can be used on mites with some working and some not. A couple of expensive but good products are Avid and Floramite. Ortho has a product called Systemic Insect Killer that helps control mites. A few people swear by Neem oil, but I can't say it worked that well for me and I was always afraid of frying my plants. There are insecticidal soaps that help also. I believe there are recipes for homemade sprays to fight many different critters as well. I'm sure that someone will give you more information on easy to access sprays that will help you with mites. This was just my two cents worth. There are many people on this forum that have good information if they are encouraged to help out. Just ask.

OH MY
I never thought of using a sticking either
what a great idea
I use sevin on my chickens too
it would work like a powder puff on the
How cool

also
I found malithion in powder too

Veronica,

Neem works well on mites, aphids & other insects, as well as serves as a fungicide. You can get it at Lowes. It isn't that expensive and is organic.

Thanks to all who have replied. God..I HATE these things! Kell - I am going home tonight and dust the brug being attacked with 7 dust until I can get and try some of that Bayer systemic. The thing I hate about sprays and dust (besides the fact that they smell awful) is that they wear off so quickly and the dust is unsightly on my beautiful brugs. I am so excited about my 20+ brugs this year -- Citronella should have her first bloom open tonight and I'm SOO anxious to see Butterfly and Vixen and Knightii double white.

Is it any wonder we turn into such homicidal maniacs when bugs or disease threatening our brugs?? I know I fuss and worry about them entirely too much (for example my last post a week or two ago about the curling, deformed leaves has completely cleared up now with CALMAG - thank you all for helping me). But a Brugmansia in bloom is an intoxicating sight and I'm completely captivated by them.

Diane Krny

If your budget is REALLY tight you can use detergent and cooking oil with water... The clue is to smother them so they die...and smother the webs on the leaves. I have taken to stripping all the big ugly infested leaves off and leaving some at the top...easier to get the backsides of. Important to do it ever X number of days...the life cycle of the mites sometimes different...and you might have missed a mite or two or an egg or ten.

My .0000002 cents worth!

Carol

Imadacloprid is absorbed over time unless it is injected into the cambium layer like the microinjectors they use for lerp psyllid. The topical insecticides I recommended were for immediate control. I'd still recommend using biological control like attracting predators or using Bacillus thuringensis var. isrealensis to kill them but to get them down to a manageable (sp*?) level use a pesticide labled for the Acalymma vittatum . Integrated Pest Management (IPM) uses several different options together to maintain pest populations.
A new bait product, AdiosTM, is also available. This product uses cucurbitacin, a secondary compound found naturally in cucumbers, to attract adult beetles, which are then killed by the carbaryl in the bait. The bait can be diluted with water but should not be mixed with other products. Bait products may have an advantage over other insecticides in preventing the spread of bacterial wilt since beetles presumably die before feeding on and infecting the plant. Baits are also less damaging to beneficials. Growers may soon be able to use bioengineered cucurbits with resistances to the most common mosaic and yellows viruses, which will make it less vital to control fall cucumber beetles.

I've tried to find this stuff for some time now and still have not found an outlet for it.

Which one Shirley?

I can only find Imadacloprid in a grub control product

never seen the other one

Hi, All -

Well I came home tonight and inspected my plants again. Found these beetles on 2 more brugs! Here is a pic of the little B-----d - is this a 4lined plant beetle or a cucumber beetle?? I found I had some malathion spray so I sprayed the heck out of all my brugs. God that stuff stinks awful! Anybody else cursed with these things??

Here's a pic of the damage he did on the brug cross cutting he was on.

What Diane, those little white spots? I get the cucumber beetle that looks like a yellow lady bug. When I frist saw one, I thought I had a mutated lady bug and I was SO EXCITED!! LOL Mine eat holes, actual holes. Especially in the blooms. I hate them.

Thanks Bagpypr for sharing your expertise with us. What do you think of adding Avid or Florimite to Neem oil to spray for mites? I love Neem but sometimes on big brugs, it is hard to get every inch.

Bettydee, I use Neem Oil with great success. But some say if you spray it on the leaves in hot sun, it will burn them. I spray whenever here, but I do not get real hot here. I never have had a problem. So use it in the morning if you are worried. Also I use Advanced Bayer Rose Systemic and Fertilizer. I love it, again for it is not a spray. Beware though, it can fry your plants. I water well the day before, and then water after I use it. I am careful not to have a heavy hand. GOOD LUCK. I hate mites!!


I stole pic from
troyb.com/photo/images/ photos/00014107.jpg

ewww..kell - yours is even worse cause it wheres the disguise of a good bug..LOL

Yep, those little round spots are where it has sucked the chlorophyll (sp?) out of the leaves. Those spots can be so thin that they turn into holes. It is very unsightly when it covers most of the leaves on a plant. Of course, the damage to those leaves can't be undone so your stuck looking at it unless you remove them. But what I am most concerned about is them infecting the plant with mosaic virus. eek.

I'm going to try that systemic, I'm feeling quite homicidal right now....

Kell do you know if malathion kills on contact only - i.e. do you have to catch the bugs and spray them or does it stay in the leaves and kill them when they try to eat it?

Diane

Diane, I found this:
Malathion kills by contact and is not a systemic insecticide. This means that it must be applied more often to infected areas than systemic agents.

from
http://www.cbwinfo.com/Biological/Vectors/Pesticides/Malathion.html

I was surprised to see this:
Toxicity for all mammals tested is very low. Malathion is widely used in public health programs to control mosquitos, parasites and insects in stored grain.

It smells so bad I was sure it was lethal. LOL

LOL - I'm with you Kell - that stuff REEKS! I sprayed it tonight and I'm still trying to get the smell off my hands where I touched the bottle. Hey, maybe the bugs die from trying to hold their breath too long.. LOL

diane

I think Merit is an Imadacloprid product. I was talking about the Adios TM. I can't find it anyplace, for sale.

LOL Diane!!!

Is it ?
I gotta look at the bottle

I have the Neem Oil but was afraid to use it. The daytime temperatures are in the nineties. Think I'll try it on one Brug early in the morning and hope for a cloudy day. I used Bayer Advanced Rose Systemic about 2 weeks ago. I removed the older infected leaves, but if I removed all the infected leaves, I'd have a nude plant. Thanks for the reminder not to get too heavy handed with the systemic.

Veronica

Sevin is the best for Beetles - when the JApanese Beetles come, I'll be applying it weekly.