We have water under our liner, what do we do? I don't think we have a leak anywhere but maybe the seams. Help! Any insight would be good. We're pumping it as we speak...
HELP!!!!!!!!
Water under your liner doesn't necessarily mean you have a leak through the liner. It could mean that you have surface water finding it's way underneath the liner or that you've got a very high water table. Assuming that you've not got a leak you'll need to check to see if there's any spot around your pond that is at the level of the surrounding land. Preferably you'd have a slight berm around the pond so that water running over your property would go around it rather than up to the liner. There are several ways to get it out from underneath the liner. You can attempt to overfill the pond and drive it out (this rarely works) or you can slide a hose or tube underneath the liner and attach it to a pump. The water pump must be capable of being self-priming. Alternatively, if you pond is built into a hillside you can try siphoning it out from under the liner although this won't work too well if you any air into the line.
What seams are you referring to? I have heard that seams in the main pond area are a big problem. I have heard the only place for a seam is with waterfalls and streams. Have you noticed any water loss more than evaporation would be? Something to think about!! Good luck... Tom
DRH2,
We do have a berm around the pond which diverts water around it. I'm a civil engineer, so I know that surface runoff is not the problem here. Our groundwater table is high, but not high enough that I should see any movement this shallow (our pond is 3' deep at most). We bought a sump pump tonight, so we will drain the water under the liner tomorrow after work. The liner had bubbled-up from the water underneath so much that the liner was above the water surface.
Silverfluter,
We had to seam two liners together because we ended up with a pond much larger than the orginial plan. We used double sided seaming tape, but my husband and other friend that were helping got a little anxious and filled the pond only about an hour after sealing. We seem to think this must be the source of the leak. I checked around the perimeter of the pond, but no areas were overly wet. We do have a soaker hose for plants around the berm, but I noticed the "bubble" before I had this feature installed. Our soil is clay, so I doubt that any infiltration from the berm could have made it under the liner yet.
We plan to finish draining the water under the liner tomorrow night (We drained the area within the liner). I've bought (tonight) several patch kits. I plan to dry off and redo the seam with patch kits. We'll let that sit for a least 24 hours before we fill again. If it's not the seam I'm at a loss for ideas. No other areas are wet, and it's obviously not evaporation if water is ponding up under the liner.
Thanks for your suggestions and comments. I welcome any others as well!
Aggiecorgie, here is a good way to check for leaks unless they are in the waterfall: turn off the pump and take a cup of regular milk. Drop little amounts of milk, like a teaspoon or so, around where you think the leak is. If there is a leak, you'll see the milk being pulled toward that area and then go through your liner. This is how I located a leak in my stream. It works great.
aggie - Has it rained recently before you noticed this problem? GC here and also know a lot about moving water but even with a surface burm around my pond I was getting ground water seepage under the liner after a heavy rain and it was pushing the liner up in a way that mirrors the description of your problem. Anyhow, if you find its not a leak. I fixed my problem by tiling out to a low area. Never had the problem since. Hope that helps.l
We found out the problem Thursday evening. We had one small tear in the liner, which we patched; but the major source of the leak was the seam between the two liners. Once the pond was drained and we inspected it, we found that there were many places where the liner tape didn't connect properly and large holes had formed. Friday evening we patched the seam and hole, and planned to let it cure for at least 24 hours. I think that was our problem last time, we didn't let the seal cure. The packaging had said to let it cure for 24 hours. My husband, who was in charge of putting the 2 liners together, didn't read the instructions.
Today we will start to fill the pond. I plan to fill it about 6" at a time, and wait to see if anything happens.
Don't be too hard on him. :) Maybe he was just so excited, he couldn't wait. LOL It would not be the first time I have heard of such a thing.
I don't blame him. He really had no choice: it was going to rain, and he didn't want to run into other problems.
We filled it today. So far so good. We only lost 1 fish of 7, and the water is clear this time. In previous threads I had asked about murky water, but it probally was because of the leak letting soil through. We're hoping it will hold, but we can tell better later in the week. We patched the seam, and then patched the patch. Hopefully it will hold.
Keep you fingers crossed for us!:)
I hope it all turns out for you. I love the idea of using milk to find the problem and will store that away in my memory banks where it will probably be lost forever.
Well everything is holding so far. I'm a little anxious because the water is slightly cloudy. Is this normal? We have 1200 gallons and 7-3" to 5" goldfish. I'm just hoping this is from the nitrogen cycling/bacteria bloom and not a leak. I still can see the bottom, and no bubbles yet.
This is enough to get a girl's stomach in knots!;)
Well we have another leak. We've been putting a sump pump under the liner so we can drain the "bubble" weekly, but leave the pond plants and fish as is. Next month when we get some cash together I will be purchasing a large one-piece liner.
What are you going to do with the pieces you have?
I plan on keeping it, but I don't have any plans for the old liner yet.
We purchased a large one piece liner from Just Liners and will be installing it over the fourth of July weekend. We're thinking about putting smooth river stones in the bottom of the pond just incase groundwater movement causes another "floating" liner during the rainy season. Hopefully it will weigh it down enough. What have been your experiences with rock bottoms? I've read good and bad things about both.
Also another question: can I plant stuff in the rocks on the bottom, or will the plants pierce the liner with their roots?
Aggiecorgi,
You should email Texmel and ask her to forward to you a copy of a recent article on rock bottom ponds. I've always planned to put rocks in mine, as good bacteria grow on those rocks and help keep the water clean. This article basically makes a good case for naturalizing your pond with rocks.
I had the same question about plants, but I don't see how their roots could penetrate an epdm liner. I took the 'plunge' and planted my plants directly in the rocks after washing the soil from their roots. They all seem to be thriving so far. I want the bottom covered with oxygenators, so I planted starts of them directly in the rocks at the bottom, using pea gravel to help them hold until they develop roots. I even have two or three water lilies planted in the rocks rather than in baskets with soil. It was an experiment to see if they did as well as the ones planted in the pots. So far, there is no difference in their growth rate or their apparent healthiness. Again, this will help keep the water cleaner because the plants will take their nutrients directly from the water, just as they do in my veggie filter.
Hope this helps. Good luck getting your new liner installed!
TxMel does have a lot of rocks on the bottom of her pond. The only real complaint she had about them was when she would go into the pond for maintenance, they slip slide and and are a bit treacherous to work with. The other thing she said was concerning putting rocks on the sides, they shift very easily. As far as putting plants in rocks on the bottom, the only problem I see is the periodic required maintenance to keep them from taking over the pond.... in other words... weeding your pond becomes more of a chore when they spread. Not that they will not spread from pots, but control can be a little more of a problem.
I would be interested in the service you got from Justliners also... prices delivery and such... Thanks... Tom
Tom is so right about rocks on the bottom being difficult to walk on! I also noticed that they interfere with the function of my bottom drain, which is to keep large debris from collecting on the pond floor. I have an English Laurel tree (which I may just take out as I have plenty of laurel) that drops big leaves and twigs into the pond. There is a spot underneath the spillstones where this debris tends to collect. I have solved this problem by making a clear pathway from that area to the bottom drain. This pathway also serves as a place for me to walk when I have to get in the pond. I have small, round river rocks on the bottom of the pond, not big stuff.
Tom,
The liner was 20'x30' 45 mil for $237, shipping was $77. The liner is supposed to arrive tomorrow, but it is much overdue. I ordered the liner on June 21, and the shipper shipped my liner to the wrong town. The shipping was supposed to be 3-day service, but with no guarantee from the shipper. Everyone has been very helpful (justliners and shipper), but I would not plan water gardening activities around the estimated arrival date. We had planned on installing the liner over the 4th of July 3-day weekend, and had left plenty of time for 3-day shipping, or so we thought. We plan to wait now till late fall so I don’t lose any of the plants on the berm we may have to temporarily remove during installation.
So my verdict is it’s a great price if you want to wait. You probably will have faster service if you call in your order instead of placing it online; you have to verbally accept the shipping charges. I assume you would have the same shipper since you also are in Texas.
Thanks... thats a great price... Tom
Tom, I suggest you also call or email pondliners.com. I bought my liner from them, had excellent customer service ordering over the phone, and the delivery was smooth and on time. If I remember correctly, their price and delivery was comparable to Justliners.com. I think I ordered from them because of the customer service. They spent a great deal of time on the phone with me going over specifics and comparing models to find what I needed, and that was before they knew I was going to order.