DDDDDDH has made me a 40' x 12' bed to grow my seedlings in. I have a number of seeds gifted by you guyses...and growing them out in pots is a lot of work (filling pots...when we have to 'import' our soil). We have these old beds 12' x 80' from the previous owners-DH gets half for a shadehouse and I get half for my "seedlings" (feeling like Dr. Frankenstein here).
So...here's the plan/question: I will make substantially ameliorated soil in 12' long rows...and in between the rows, lay down weed cloth.In fact, I could lay weedcloth down over the whole area and plant the brugs in holes punched in the cloth.
Anyway...I digress...how close can I plant my seedlings? How close can the rows be? How much space between brugs in a 360 deg. radius?
The soil is volcanic cinders mixed with organic matter...never been planted in before. I will add good stuff... It is very fast draining, with enough organic matter to hold the moisture in the bottom of the hole. They (the seedlings) will get full sun...shade in the am. and late afternoon...full sun middle of the day. I will fill each hole with peat moss and coir chips in the bottom so there will always be moisture, even in droughts. AHA?...do Brugs tend to be shallow or deep rooted?
OK you mavens out there...who have been doing - can you help me? I have told you what I have available....what would you do?
Thanks and Aloha, ;>) Carol
Carol
Logical question, for a change LOL
Hi Carol. I have planted 2 brug gardens from seedlings now and both have gotten totally out of control. I realize I was in the wrong mind set. I should not have been trying to get big fat plants but just 1 trunk to flower. So how you plant it depends on your goal. Do you just want them to flower fast and evaluate the flower, or do you want a garden full of big fat brugs?
In one garden the seedlings all grew so tall. I put them about 1 ft apart. It is their 3 rd year and they are huge multi-trunked trees competing for light. The aggressive brugs took over and grew up so fast, the weaker brugs were left to lay on the ground and snake thru looking for light. Some are 10 ft long growing all along the ground. It was not meant to keep the brugs growing in it for more than 2 years. I should have gotten rid of most of the brugs last year.
In my other garden, they all stayed short but are so thick and multi-trunked, they are now too close together. I planted all the brugs in 5 gallon cans with holes cut in the lower half. I gave them about 3 to 4 ft between. I put them 3/4s deep in the ground. This has made it so easy to dig them up when I have wanted to move them. I just take a shovel around the side and cut the roots, then lift up the entire pot. I am now going to cut all the brugs to just 1 stalk. This will cut way down on maintenance and water and food needs. The problem too is that they are not staked. So some have fallen over in the rain and storms of the winter. Their main roots are shallow for they are contained in the pots, so they do not anchor them like if you had them straight in the ground. If I wanted to spend an extra $7 each, I would get a steal stake and put a hole in the bottom of the pot, and drive the stake thru to keep all the brugs upright. But I am too cheap to spend so much on each seedling since I have so many.
In my new seedling garden, I am planting them in the 5 gallon pots, 2 ft apart, in rows. I will not allow any suckering. This will allow them to be very close together, easier to water, and cheaper to feed and treat for bugs. And I must get hard hearted. As soon as I realize the brug is not special, out it goes.
This message was edited May 29, 2005 4:40 AM
Kell,I'm thinking Carol is talking about starting the seeds right in the ground,just like planting corn
I did try that one time,didn't work for me, but its because the birds running around here dig everything up and nothing stayed in rows for long.
What you could do,because the germination on them can vary from a difference of a few days to weeks or months is have one section of the bed as a seed starting bed.Plant the seeds,when they germinate and get a few leaves ,transplant them into the growing section.Put a tag on them so you remember what cross it is.That way you can use the landscape cloth to keep the weeds down,and I would give them a foot to 2 feet of space between them.........
Wonderful information and advice! Thanks Kell and CC!
Crestedchick, actually, I have about 100 seedlings growing in small pots...they are about 12" high in 1 gals or they are 6" high in 4". My idea is to start them in the GH and then plant them out in this big area where I can see how they flower.
Yes, Kell, the idea is to see how they flower, propagate by cuttings the ones I want to keep and share and dis the rest. (One of the problems is that if I pull them up/cut them off and throw them in the bush, they start growing again!!! Hey...I can deal!!!). Actually, I would probably give them away, anyway, to friends with gardens...
I really don't want to deal (actually I would love to, but my back won't let me) with shlepping 5 gal pots around...so I think I will plant them directly into the soil, keep to one stalk and probably stake them with rebar. This is not really a 'garden' but a growing area...so I can look as 'agricultural' as I want to!
The big job is going to be getting organic matter and 'goodies' into the soil before I plant.
Has anyone used the old "pot buried in the ground" with brugs. In Seattle this was the way we watered our tomatoes and squash...the water went into the pots (4") and directly down to the roots. Maybe a piece of PVC pipe would be better.
Definitely going to use Weed Cloth...
Thanks for your insights....
Carol
Carol, I just never realized it would require so much work to grow stuff in HI - I would have thought it was like CA, my friend walks out in her garden, scratches around, sets the plant down in it, pours a little water on it, and within the year, when I returned, it was a drop dead gorgeous blue shrub, the size of a tree. I thought your area was the same, with soil better than anything that could be added. I'd love to see your place, send us some pics!!! Good luck on your projects!! I have a small seedling planting and moving project going on, but it's too wet to get into it today and that is a blessing, we needed the rain so very badly!!! Have a fun holiday!!
Oh, oh, oh, I had no idea there was such a thing as a weed in HI, I thought every plant there was a tropical delight...Arky should be known as the weed capital of the south and I really hate weeds!!! Have you tried Preen?? It works.
I have used the pot buried in the ground with brugs. I am not going to do it again. It was really hard getting the pots off in the fall when I dug them up. Root grows out of the pot and gets large so you have to cut it out of the pot at every hole. Some people drill larger holes for this purpose.
LOL SherryLike...the flash hotels here with their manicured lawns and beautiful gardens are lovely...and full of trucked in soil!!
Our island is either lava or down wind from the explosions where the ash collected and the sugarcane was grown. With so many decades of growing sugarcane...and the herbicides and fertilizers used...the soil is pretty depleated (very high in phosphate). On the other hand, we live on a 300 year old lava flow and our topsoil is about 3" deep in places!!! Trees have grown in the indentations in the lava...and to plant anything a D-9 Bulldozer needs to rip up the lava, or a backhoe with a hammer has to dig out holes. We have done both.
The beds I am going to plant in are slightly raised (I think the former owners grew ....ahem...."things" in them) and the soil there is a mixture of volcanic cinders and bagasse (sugarcane field soil) mixed in. It needs organic matter like peat/chicken poop/compost dug into it as well. We can often get loads of mulch from the city "green waste"...all ground up and steaming hot. The city loads it for free...but it costs about 100$ for a truckload up the hill...6cu.feet.
Cuttings thrown in the bush will root immediately...but they have little to grow in! The 200 year old trees have very shallow roots and literally when they fall over, the root system is about 6' in diameter and 3" deep. Often if the wind comes from a different direction....they will fall over....we just cut the tops off and plop them back up!!
Here is the map of our place...you can click on the arrows and see "landscapes"...we really have to up date it. I think I have posted this before. http://www.bigislandgrowers.com/ghp/AHmap.php.
I think I am going to plant the seedlings in rows and place them about one foot apart...and the rows wide enough to walk thru. Thanks for all of your help...I'll try to post more photos later.
Aloha
OH..WEEDS? Everything that eeks out existance elsewhere is a weed here: Impatiens, Ageratum, grasses of ALL kinds, Sensitive Plant (and the weed is thorny to boot), morning glory...more weeds than you can imagine!!! Garlon and Round Up are the only things to use on most of them!!!
When we first arrived...I asked a neighbour for some Impatiens cuttings to 'start'. "START", she howled!!!! "Just throw them on the ground....so true.
This message was edited May 29, 2005 7:48 PM
What a fun post Carol, I felt like I was right there with you, such an interesting, different kind of gardening where you live, at least compared to southeast Arky, except I believe I can match you weed to weed, lol, but true!! My Mac wouldn't allow me to see your link, is there a trick?? Thank you so much for walking me through your place and good luck with your seedlings, I know they will be wonderful and I cannot wait to see your photos!!!
Altho' it is fun...and we can grow all sorts of lovely tropicals...gardening/planting is a whole lot different from the 25 years I spent in Seattle!!! By a factor of 20!
Can't wait to show you guys my new beds....gotta get to work!!!
Carol
Here is my bed....'12 x 40' Should be able to get a few seedlings in here. I think I will rig a shade cloth for them, while they gain height.
Carol, your bed and grounds are beautiful, looks so HI - I cannot wait to see how your seedlings do. The bottom is fixing to fall out here and I've got to get to work while I still can, it's been pouring since Sat, but we need it...more pics as you go!!!
Carol, it looks great to me too! Lucky you...I just know your brugs are gonna love it in that spot. The soil looks so rich. Good luck and don't forget to post pics of how your plants progress there. I know they'll do great!
Hugs
Julie
Thanks, guys, so much.
I can't believe I have made the transition from a few brugs to a 12 x 40 bed for them... OCP? ME?
Here's the link with the ending period removed.
http://www.bigislandgrowers.com/ghp/AHmap.php
Oh dear...I should have checked that. Thanks Emily.
Totally enjoyed the tour!!!
Thank you very much for posting the link.
Judy
Carol. Great hoyas!! I wonder if Patricia will see this thread. She loves hoyas.
I planted my 5 gallon pots with extra large holes around the bottom in the soil. I put them 3/4s down under the soil line. I then planted my brug from a gallon can in the the 5 gallon pot. I left 1/3 of the pot empty on the top so when I water, I just fill up the pot twice.
I found at the end of the first year, it was much easier to dig up the brug by just digging around the 5 gallon pot and lifting it. I did not cut any holes on the bottom of the pot, so the main roots were coming out of the sides and easily separated from the pot with a shovel. It also kept most of the root ball in the pot, so what was left in the soil was finer roots and I did not have to dig up a huge rootball.
The ones not in a pot, the roots went all over and were much harder to dig up.
My question to myself is: If I am growing these out for flowers, why do I want to dig them out? If they are worth keeping, can't I just make cuttings? And if they are not worth it...I can dis them with whatever.
Just a thought....since the bed isn't finished yet. Your idea and method are great, Kell...but I think I will try my way first.
Carol
I am only growing mine out to evaluate the flowers and the plant. I will only keep mine at the most 2 years in the bed. Then they have to be removed to make room for the new batch. So ease of removal is so important to old me. Last year I could dig them out myself which is not the usual for me.
If they are any good, I will either move them to a more permanent location or just send it out to people to see if they like it.
I am so space challenged . I wish I had your yard, Carol. I am so pink with envy!!! Yours will get to be trees in no time. A real brug jungle! Are you finally getting more rain?
The local nursery was just planting their Brugs in the ground today. I think they are in about 20 gallon tubs for wintering in the greenhouse.Didn't have a camera darn it. The nurseryman said he takes a reciprocating saw and cuts the rootball in the Fall, then pulls the plant and trims it to fit the tub, and cuts it back to limit growth. Don't know much about Brug sizes, but these seem to be pretty big.
balvenie, is that photo on another thread too, it looks so familiar - those are some BIG brugs, whew!! I dug ONE hole that size and it was tough!!
WOWIE, Carol, I LOVE the map and the photos, amazing, you have a wonderful place!! And, I don't know who put the property sites and photos, numbers, etc, all together, but that was quite a job and so well done and so fun to view. I might have to pack up and take a visit to your state. We have the top off a pineapple - what's the best way to get a plant started? I know it's possible because we did one years ago, along with an avocado, which lived for 5 years. We weren't so lucky with the pineapple, any tips??
One Word.....WOW!!!!
first I'd like to ask.......
Will you adopt me????
If not
will you come here and organize me?
I'm amazed
Sherry, it could be a repeat,but I took several views at the time and there are some look-a-likes.
Carol, I've never seen a map like that.It is awesome. What is the "lab" building used for? You have a really interesting site there.
Makes sense, Kell.
Yes, we ARE finally getting some rain. Not as much as we would like...maybe .20" or .40" per night...but not enough. Our catchments are filling up slowly. I had a couple of nice tall (5') brugs looking nice a bushy...when I noticed red spider mites again. BLAST. NEVER had trouble before because of the nightly rain showers....but with the drought everything got stressed and on came the buggers! I finally de-leafed them all up to the top 6 leaves, no mites, burned the leaves and sprayed Neem. Ooooh, I just hate those mites!!! Now my lovely brugs look like 13 year old adolescent basketball stars!!!
;>)
I never make sense,Carol. LOL
Oh you poor girl. Terrible that you are still not getting lots and lots of rain, your usual. But I guess some is better than none. I wonder where those spider nites hid while there was not so much rain to chase them away. Amazing how they just hang around close enough to show up when the rain descreases. Just to make us all miserable.
Gee (blushing and grinning with pride), DH put the site together. We were just talking about the need to update and add more photos of "views" rather than all plants. When we do it, I'll let you know. We found this place 4 years ago (6 acres worth) ... it was choked with Melastoma (a very invasive species here...Tibuchina is my nemisis) and spent the first year cutting back the forest of Melastoma to let the good plants breathe ... and planting new areas. (DH saw the Ti planting in a book and made one). The new 6 acres was added last year...before the prices went out the roof... Now we are lucky to get the grass mowed with all the other stuff we are doing...and at 64 we are both getting slower and s l o w e r & s l o w e r.
The previous owners built the "lab" as a schoolhouse...she ran a Waldorf PreSchool...and then Bob set up his laboratory (he is a Chemical Engineer) to test people's catchment water. Bored with that...the lab is still there because he hasn't had time to box it up. It will soon become a guesthouse since the children keep producing little ones and would prefer to be 'away'. First the kitchen gets an overhaul and then the second guestroom... We may be 90 before the guest house is finished.
You are all adopted!!! Come on over.
Pineapples. OK, take the top (either twist it out of the pine or cut it off) . Let it harden off (dry) for about a week, and then push it into a pot of VERY lose cinders (black, never red) or pumice. These are epiphytes, remember...they do not need soil. I have seen them grown in a rock wall. They are bromiliads...I even saw some growing in a TREE!. Keep warm, in full sun. to water, pour the water into the top of the pine...never the soil. Fertilize by putting the fert into the lower bracts. WATER Often. When growing, use 16-16-16 or similar...when starting to produce, a high middle number. Hummingbirds love them...but don't let them near...they will fertilize the flowers and you won't get a pineapple. Hummingbirds are TABU in Hawaii.
Kell, I like using the Neem. I don't feel I am injecting cancer when I use it! I do it every 7 days to get the newly hatched! Cheech...who would have thought! I never saw RSMites or White fly until I grew brugs....part of my growing up, I guess.
Organized? OH CC, I can't even find myself!!!
Aloha ;>)
I frequently get fooled by the ages of internet pals, Carol - I would NEVER have dreamed that you are 64, never ever. You 'write', considerably younger, lol - sorta like when my grandparents called me when I was a child, they always said 'you sound so tall', well I was/am, but I never figured out what made me sound tall, until the internet. Thanks ever so much for the pineapple info, I'll let you know if the hubby is successful. You mention that you never saw RSmites or white fly until you grew brugs - well, I didn't either and I never had fertilizer problems or aphids - about the worst problem I had was being totally unable to grow roses or petunias - the roses always had beautiful blossoms, but horrid leaves and the slugs or something ate every petunia, but I just never had trouble with the other stuff I grow and still don't, tho I gravitate to plants that work nicely here, caladium, impatiens, geraniums, all kinds of perennials - brugs are the most difficult plants I've ever grown. Sometimes I wonder why I stay with it. I keep thinking that I will click in and figure it all out, so I keep on puttering, trying this or that and keeping my fingers crossed. I really enjoy your posts Carol, it's great hearing about different growing conditions and your up, fun attitude makes your stuff special! Thanks!!
....why, dahling (blush blush) thanks. ;>)
One more 'thing' on the pineapple...try to keep the light fairly constant! In Seattle I grew a Crinum from a seed I found on the beach in HI. I had a wonderful plant...but no flower. The shorter days of winter threw it off. You probably have long light in the winter than Seattle. But you should harvest a pineapple within a year.
Aloha
Ooooh, Carol, I won't plan Christmas dinner around pineapple upside down cake, but I will surely help the hubby try to grow one. Of course, we've had rain, cloudy for the past three days, and our winters are worse and cold, but we are looking forward to giving it a go and having your first hand info, should start us off in the right direction. I have a GH so that should help. I have a lemon on my Meyer lemon tree, and lots of new growth and flowers, so maybe we have a new calling...