This is my first year growing brugs and I put all my cutting in 18 gallon pots. Is it OK to start with this size or should I have put them in smaller pots to begin with?
Susan
Can you use too large a pot for brugs?
I think I have seen that you should start with smaller pots so that they don't get waterlogged. Root rot is a problem with brugs.
Hi Susan,
Welcome to the Brug forum...I'm glad you're here and hope to see lots of pretty flowers this Summer for you :-)
Julie
This message was edited May 17, 2005 1:04 PM
This message was edited May 17, 2005 1:11 PM
Susan it's best to start them off in smaller pots until they get a larger root system.
I start cuttings off in 4" pots until they root, then 1 gallon until the roots fill the pot and then into a 5 gallon where they stay.
Without a good root system they can't absorb all the water in a large pot and the roots will rot.
18 gallon is pretty big. I just bought some 20 gallon ones online. When your brugs fill a 5 gallon pot well, you can move it into the 18 gallon. When I move up to a huge pot, I am very careful not to overwater it. Brugs grow so quickly, so you may be in your 18 gallon by the end of the summer, depending on your winter plans. But your growing season is short in your zone isn't it? How are you planning to overwinter them? You might do better keeping them in a 5 or 7 gallon pot thru the winter then after they get going next spring, move them up to the 18 gallon.
I go through this pot thing all the time. I have a row of seedlings in the ground, they were in 8 ounce Styrofoam cups before I put them in the ground, they developed a good root system in the cups, they are doing nicely in the ground, with no problems. Tell me why it would be different putting the 8 ounce seedlings in a large pot, with appropriate drainage, than putting the same seedling in the ground. That's a question. TIA!!!!!
LOL Sherry, that is a good question. I have been known to pot them up to a much bigger pot. I am just then careful not to flood the pot, sometimes I just wet the area where the plant is for a while. It maybe because the pot holds the moisture at the roots more or the dirt is just not the same . I have no clue. LOL. The only time I get in trouble potting a plant up to fast is if it is the winter time, our rainy season. If the plant is in a huge pot for its roots, I can get rot. But then, I usually get rot on the trunk or stems, not the roots. LOL
If the cuttings are fresh, nonrooted, you can easily control the moisture in a small pot and the pot will dry out faster which is good. Though I have been known to break off a brug piece, usually in error, and I just restick it back into the pot with the mother plant. It often grows with no trouble at all in the huge pot.
Maybe it is drainage!!! Maybe garden soil drains very fast. If you use a huge pot, you best have fast drainage!! LOL And maybe garden soil has more air in it from all the worms and thingies growing in it that potting soil has yet to acquire. LOL
Kell then your advise is if they don't fill a 5 gal. pot wait to plant in a bigger pot.
I have a new Maya and a Peaches and Cream that are newly rooted that was filling a 6 in. pot. So if I planted them outside in the flower bed then I have goofed. Which I did last Wednesday. If you think they will be alright then I will leave them if not I can dig up and put in a pot.
I am so new at this and I find out everyday that I know nothing about them. But I am trying to learn. I hope it's not the hard way.
What you did sounds good to me 2pugsdog.
I have no problem taking my 16 oz red brug cups to the yard and planting them right into the garden. I have even done ones out of 6 packs. You just have to keep a closer eye on them for they are babies. They do great 2Pugdogs, so leave your plants in the ground. I bet they take off. For some reason, you can get away with a lot more when your plant is directly planted in the garden. It must be the dirt composition. It is the same with rain. If I waterd my plants as much as they get rained on in the winter, they would all rot within a few weeks. Yet most of them last all winter being saturated with rain water.
It is old gardening wisdom not to pot up more than 1 pot size. I always pot up more than 1 pot size, even in house plants. It is also old garden wisdom to put in a layer of stones or gravel in the bottom of your pot for drainage. That never made sense to me, so I never did it 2 minutes into gardening. The roots just grow all through the stones.
That being said, I do think you can drown a plant by potting up too big. But I also think if you are a long time gardener, you can just feel how to care for that plant in a huge pot so that doesn't happen. Another problem when you pot it up to a huge pot so fast, is the plant spends its time trying to fill the pot with roots and the growth above the roots is so slowed.
Usually if my brugs are going to stay potted, I go from the rockwool 1 inch square into a big 6 pack if I have little room left under my lights, or a 16 oz red cup if I have lots of room under my lights. From there I go to a gallon pot, then 5 gallon then maybe a 15 gallon the first year. If I have kept it in the 5 gallon pot over winter, it needs to go into the 15 gallon pretty soon in spring or I find I have to water daily.
Seedlings I would like to keep in a 5 gallon till flowering just because I do not want to waste the room and the supplies on a plant I may be tossing. But as soon as I decide it is a keeper it gets moved up to a 15 gallon. I will go to a 20-25 gallon pot on my fav brugs. After they have attained that size pot, I then root prune every spring and repot it back in its same pot with new soil.
Now if it is fall, I will wait till spring to pot up because it is too wet here in the winter, why put them at risk. They do better if potbound so all the rain just runs thru them.
If I am going to plant the brugs directly in the garden, I will do so usually from the 16 oz red cup or a gallon pot, which ever they are in when it is time to plant.
Hope I have not bored you to tears!! GOOD LUCK! Brugs are easy. Hard to kill esp once they are rooted well.
Kell, you give good advice. That is exactly what I do. I am so limited in room though that most of my 15-gallon containers don't get a bigger containers after that. I will have to start root pruning as you suggest. May I ask where you got your 20-gallon containers online? Thanks!
Susan, it is not wise to plant cuttings or young plants in oversized pots, when you live in a cool climate zone like you, snowhermit or I do.
Brugs dont grow that fast in our zone like they do in the much warmer zones. Our growing season is also much shorter.
This message was edited May 17, 2005 8:24 PM
Thanks Clare!! I will look tonight for the name and post it for you. I am off to conquer the day!! LOL
Thanks everyone for all the advice. I feel very much like a first time mother who has no idea how to care for her babies! I think I need to do lots more reading and invest in a brug book. I posted a photo of the Peaches and Cream brug cutting I started last fall earlier and since then I have moved it outside. It was in a 5 gallon pot and I moved it to what is maybe a 10 gallon pot, so I think it is OK. Since then, I ordered a Dr Suess and 3 nameless ones from eBay, a white, pink and yellow. All these cutings were at least 24" tall. Dr Suess is in a 15 gallon pot and the other 3 went into the 18 gallon totes. I did put gravel in the bottom to help with them not blowing over and planted coleus along with them. Then I did some trading with another DG member and he sent me 2 nice Charles Grimalddi cuttings. One is planted in the ground and the other in a 12 gallon pot. This is a photo of the one I rooted and grew over winter. It looks a little the worse for wear since being out in the real world. Do you think I should cut off the smaller of the 2 shoots that started from the original cutting? Can you tell I am a brug addict in the making?
Susan
snowhermit, my son and grandson would like to know what kind of bears yours are, and we would like to know the name of the thread with your photos. TIA!!!!!
Monika, your reply with regard to zone differences is greatly appreciated!!!! I'm too new to know much but I do believe that last year (my first!), I caused unnecessary stress and slow growth because I changed pots so frequently. I learned two things that 'seem' to be true in my area, 1) the brug should be planted in the ground, if possible, they grow/bloom bigger/better in southeast Arky in the ground and 2) if for some reason (in my zone), if the brug must live in a pot, go ahead and jump the broom and put her in a big pot from the get go, because pot changes cause stress and slow down in growth/blooming. I have 3 reasons for putting some of my brugs in pots this season, 1) I have several that are special and I'd like to get a cutting before putting them in the ground (don't want my doggie stepping on them or my cats using them for a litter box, ***see attached photo, and 2) since they are special, I can move them around if the sun isn't just right and 3) I can move blooming brugs into a location where more will be able to see and enjoy her...
Susan, you can always do what I do, if I do something I am not quite sure of and the plant starts to go south, I undo it!! LOL I just keep an eye out. I bet yours will be fine. Also a lot has to do with your soil characteristics. If it is light , you can go with a bigger pot, if heavy maybe not. In spring you can get away with a lot more sinning than in the fall. Also does it get hot where you are? Where I live it is cool so I do have to watch out for rot more. Cold plus wet equals rot. But if where you are is hot in the summer, the soil will probably dry out faster unless you get a lot fo rain. LOL. The best thing is trial and error. You just need to experiment and find what works best for you!!
Do not be nervous, brugs really are not difficult. They couldn't be, I have several hundred of them. LOL And as far as your P& C, do whatever pleases your eye. There is no right or wrong. It is personal taste.
GOOD LUCK!!
They are Black Bear Sherry and here is the thread.
http://davesgarden.com/forums/t/481743/
What a cute picture of your fur babies. Is that a Golden Retriever?
I brought the thread back up so Susan's thread doesn't get off track.
This message was edited May 18, 2005 12:55 AM
SherryLike, I like your pets, especially the cats. I have three of them.
Replanting is no stress for brugs, when it is done during their growing season. But it is stress for them if the pots are too large. The soil doesnt warm up in the midst but stays cool, especially when it is wet.
Brugmansia like warm 'feet'. Appr. 20°C bottom is what they like best.
Budding brugs can be replanted without problems during the growing season. After July 16, the growth of the plants slows down noticeable because of the daylight looses on length and rays, which stimulates growth. I dont replant anymore after this date. I have learned this out of almost 30 years of experience.
Monika, I just read your Brugmansia book and it looks like you rarely go larger than a 5 gallon pot for your plants? Is this because you have to bring them in during the colder months? I was impressed at the healthy extremely large plants that seem quite happy in this size of pot.
This is the time of the year that I really get threads mixed up, and I thought I had already replied. Moving right along - thank you so much Monika, from my kitties - they are bad and I have to keep an eye on them at all times, even tho they make every step with me each day.
Thank you to Kell and to Monika for taking time to post with regard to pot size. My digital took a nap, so I didn't get to photo my brugs in big pots. I 'think', do not know, but I think, in my zone in Arky, that unless there is a really rainy spring that the big pot problem here is not getting enough water. I really want my potted brugs in the ground, but with the traffic I have and with my animals having occasional running fits, I will have to wait to put them in the ground until I haved a rooting. Should have done that last year and lost three brugs that I really wanted to keep. Oh, well, it's a ground up learning experience for me and I appreciate everyone that is kind enough to help me along the way!!!!!
Hi Clare, so sorry. I totally forgot to look for you. I did just open the box and the 20 gallon pots are just huge. They look strong but I did not separate them out. They will take so much soil to fill. Oh the money I spend on these. LOL As my Mom would say, oh the shoes I could buy!
25 Gallon Blow Mold 6 count 39.60
I spent $33.15 to ship them.
http://growersupply.com/
Thanks so much, Kell! Kell, where do you buy your potting soil from? The reason that I ask is I've been buying Sunshine Mixes from a local Farm Supply Store in bales of 3.8 cubic feet, which is compressed (and very heavy -- about 70 pounds). It actually comes out to be about 8 cubic feet for $20. This is a better deal than HD or Costco. They also have large containers for sale, but you have to buy them in bulk, which is about 25-30 containers, depending upon the size. Here is where I go: http://www.westernfarmservice.com/ I forget where you are now in Northern California, but here are their locations: http://www.westernfarmservice.com/locations/california.html If there is not one close to you, check out other farm supply stores. They have different price tiers which I think have to do with how much you buy, but the prices are still better than HD. I know exactly what you mean about how expensive this hobby is! I could have some really nice clothes instead of the stained worn clothes that I wear! LOL!
LOL :-) Kell
Jazzpunkin, the plants are easier to transport in small pots than in large, heavy containers. The moisture in smaller pots is easier to control during the winter, especially when the brugs have to go dormant for 7 months like mine. The small 5 gallons pots have side and bottom holes because I plant the brugs together with the small pot into a large container or in the ground during the summer and dig them out inclusive with the small pot. To protect the roots, the pot is placed into a plastic bag..
This message was edited May 18, 2005 11:09 PM
Thanks Clare. The closest is Hollister. I used to go there on a rare occasion to some antique stores but I seem to have no time to do all my day trips anymore.
Good suggestion to checkout the farm supply places. We have farms not that far from here though they are really disappearing. I will check out the phone book.
I go broke on soil. My base soil is always Supersoil. I can't find the rich humus I used to get on the East coast. I mix Supersoil with all sorts of things, no 2 batches are alike. LOL. I have been adding a lot of cow manure now for 2 years and the brugs seem to like it. I try to add heavy soil to it in the spring so I do not have to water every day in the summer. The roots grow so fast they take over the pot no matter how big I go and I end up watering daily in late summer. I hate it. But then if I have to repot in late summer, I go to a light, light soil to help me get thru the winter without rot.
Do you like the sunshine mix alone? Or do you add to it?
Hi Kell, I go broke with soil too, and I have chosen really light mixes in the past so I am in the same boat you are. I have to repot constantly and water every day in the summer too. I hate it also and wish I had an automatic watering system set up. That would make these so much easier. I've put as much as I can in the ground here since that makes upkeep easier. The ground dries out really fast though so I still have to water every day. Since I am a renter, I figure I will take many, many brug cuttings when it is time to leave and start over. I don't have to worry about rot in the winter. My brugs can handle all the water because most of them are so rootbound and dry anyway.
Sunshine Mix is the only mix that I don't have to add anything to. I use No. 5 for my regular container plants and No. 4 for the ones that need excellent drainage, like my epi's and plumerias. No. 4 has "55-65% Canadian Sphagnum Peat Moss, Perlite, Dolomitic Limestone (for pH adjustment of materials in this soilless mix), Gypsum, Wetting Agent. " It is a very light mix and dries out quickly. I think I've used Miracle Grow in the past with some of my brugs too. Before that I used Miracle Grow for Trees, Shrubs, and other Ornamentals. That is a nice mix but only comes in one-cubic-foot bags at Home Depot. And I think I used Scotts before that.